India China LAC & International Border Discussions

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another_armchair

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Are they getting their pay and allowances or not ??
The question is what they have done to stop Chinese incursion in in ladakh... you wish to discuus their finacial status. Why do they need 20 IGs reduce the number of IGs to ten and save money..
Ask the same question to BSF while you are at it.

Why different set of rules for dealing with infiltrators from Pakistan and border jumpers from Bangladesh?

Any 'excesses' (thrashing a repeat offender) by BSF on the Western border invites the wrath of the State and the Center.

Meanwhile in Kashmir, RR boys can drag a stone pelter inside a van and turn him into an Indian Idol contender in under 2 minutes. All it takes is a few hard slaps. Same action by BSF on the Eastern border and the guy simply loses increment, worse, job. If a mob descends and attacks the party, could result in loss of life and limb.

Give them the same orders and autonomy enjoyed by the Army and see them perform better than before even if they remain well below Army standards.
 

ladder

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Infiltration starts from an area deep in Pakistan.... Not getting their information is an intelligence failure. What is the doubt about that ?

Terrorists come for Kashmir and the border of Kashmir is LOC under Army. You want them to come from Andaman and Nicobar ? But they do come from all parts of IB and Nepal.

The point was about responsibility.
BSF when under command of Army is the responsibility of Army.
If ITBP is responsible for LAC they are the ones to be hanged for any fuck up.
The arguments are so simple. Why complicate yara....
Terrorists come for Kashmir and the border of Kashmir is LOC under Army. You want them to come from Andaman and Nicobar ? But they do come from all parts of IB and Nepal.
IB in Jammu to be precise. As Pak consideres it WB. Seldom from Raj or Guj or Punjab sector. Those are drug peddlers and smugglers playground.
One off incident of Gurdaspur? has been negleted.
From Nepal the former militant/terrorist return with their families, whose name gets listed in the amnesty scheme.
Andaman and Nicobar. Well if A&N would have gone to Indonesia. ( They had a claim on it but Chickened out during 1965 for joint attack with Pak)

See, things are complicated ( I only expanded one point of yours). I am not the one who is complicating them.
Neither I favour over simplification with an agenda to hang the Albratros around one's neck.
 

another_armchair

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Ask the same question to BSF while you are at it.

Why different set of rules for dealing with infiltrators from Pakistan and border jumpers from Bangladesh?

Any 'excesses' (thrashing a repeat offender) by BSF on the Western border invites the wrath of the State and the Center.

Meanwhile in Kashmir, RR boys can drag a stone pelter inside a van and turn him into an Indian Idol contender in under 2 minutes. All it takes is a few hard slaps. Same action by BSF on the Eastern border and the guy simply loses increment, worse, job. If a mob descends and attacks the party, could result in loss of life and limb.

Give them the same orders and autonomy enjoyed by the Army and see them perform better than before even if they remain well below Army standards.
Adding to the same, can any CRPF A/C, D/C or Commandant tie up a Kashmiri stone pelter to the bonnet of his jeep and drive around town and get away with it?

We saw a CRPF jawan carrying EVM's heckled, abused, assaulted by a bunch of coward Kashmiri louts. He had an INSAS slung around his shoulder.

Would a Kashmiri dare do the same to an Army patrol?

What ITBP should/should not do is for the Home Ministry to decide. Give them clear orders to fire on the Chinese if they cross a red line, they will do it. Give them adequate training as RR, they will try and catch up.

Give them the same amount of ammunition to expend at the range, they will become proficient marksmen.
 
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Skyh3ck

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Has anyone yet traced the satellite images of 5g tower built by china on mount everest
 

Gaurav Rai

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Once again all of this will extend like their last DBO intrusion. And then sab apne apne raste chale jaenge. Good night everyone.
 

Hari Sud

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Reasons why China started this fight

Diplomats and strategists have not yet figured out why did China pick this time to start a physical push and shove with India in Sikkim and Ladakh knowing fully well that India is well prepared. They got bloodied in Sikkim but are still face to face in Ladakh. There is Convid-19 pandemic on and China in its industrial heartland of Wuhan suffered the worst effect. It allowed the virus to deliberately escape China with travel and unleash havoc everywhere in the world, - US, Asia & Europe, its main trading partners. Today they are suffering Its worst effects......... Now, since the brand China among its customers is dead, their lifeline of exports is at standstill. Who wants to import anything from them. Even the defective virus prevention safety hardware hastily exported has been returned. ...... Hence my point is why would anybody in his right mind pick up a fight out of all the countries with India.

Three points come to mind;-

1. The Chinese were helping Pakistan to prevent India grab POK in the coming summer months. For them the best option is to open a second front and help a friend.

2. The Chinese are aware that India is warming up to Taiwan wished to prevent it from happening by starting a fight and then negotiating their way to stop this warming up.

3. Since the Brand China is dead and quite a few companies are thinking of relocating and India is one of their choice, hence start a long fight to sabotage that.

The Ladakh or Sikkim fight is not worth anything on the ground. It is something more sinister than this.

The Pakistani media silence all directed by their Foreign Minister does indicate that the Pakistanis are overjoyed except that it is a fight of equals unlike the 1962 fight. If India has made up its mind to grab the POK, then it does not matter this year or next. Sooner than latter POK will be in Indian hands.

India warming up to Taiwan has made Chinese in Peking gravely concerned. India establishing a diplomatic relation with Taiwan will upset them a lot. If India opens any office in Taiwan will persuade many other countries who are just thinking about recognizing Taiwan to follow the suite. That will be a suicidal moment for China. This fight, they started with India is a warning to India and others to stay out of it.

Today Chinese loosing quite a bit of its manufacturing is a major economic loss for them. All those CPEC and One Road One Belt money will be sitting in the waste basket, when half the customer base disappears. I live in North America, I know the consumer feelings here. They are dumping everything Chinese. Even the Amazon is feeling the pinch of it as orders if Chinese made goods are cancelled. India is making a huge beeline to grab a portion of shifting manufacturing. Chinese being unhappy wish to sabotage it very early. It is possible.......

There may be a hundred other reasons but to me it would appear, these are the three main reasons... What do you think.
 

Waanar

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His question to that is also apt ...
If nothing has happened then what is this hallablue, why is Nepal Jumping, Why is Pakistan jumping... why is trump jumping,, why is Army quite... why are the media-loving ITBP quite ...what is the hurry... why fly the fighters ??

If OSINT is everything then why have billion-dollar R&AW and IB ??
At one point you say "RAW has failed in intel gathering"

On another you say "What's the hullaboo about?"

How about "RAW gained intel suggesting Chinese buildup to wrestle territory from India and we consequently ended up beefing up forces for a deterrence and/or war"? That is a possibility.

Also, it's a pretty childish response to say "I have satellite images but looking at all the noise, I'm sure China captured 640 square kilometers".
So, louder the noise, larger the territory captured?

Because MAN, all we need is one Arnab and we could take over Lhasa to Khorasan in one fell swoop of "NATION WANTS TO KNOW!".

No, seriously, you want the retired General's points rebutted with reason but you also are willing to engage in weird arguments like "What's all the hullaboo about?
Ignore logical proof like satellite imagery."
 

Assassin 2.0

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Our indigenous satellites are much better than any civilian alternative.
In real world we would have been tracking Chinese development on border 24/7 so it's not possible to keep india totally blind. Or about any build up which is happening.
qatarkhalifa.jpg


This is some declassified picture from CARTOSAT-3.

cartosat-1068x601 (1).png
 
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Waanar

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Hilarious article but gives an overall idea of the Chinese mindset.

I especially love how the Chinese take a two year breather between every war while the other nations tremble in fear and wait to be killed.
😂
🙏🏻
 

mist_consecutive

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Interesting... Modi is not in a good mood
Trump is a loudmouth and he blabbers the truth.

Now atleast we know govt. is taking this matter really seriously and its not a light standoff anymore.

I believe its time govt. should disclose what is happening, and if our territory has been compromised, build a plan to penalise China, as well as a narrative to common people in case we go rambo on them 😁
 

Bhadra

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At one point you say "RAW has failed in intel gathering"

On another you say "What's the hullaboo about?"

How about "RAW gained intel suggesting Chinese buildup to wrestle territory from India and we consequently ended up beefing up forces for a deterrence and/or war"? That is a possibility.

Also, it's a pretty childish response to say "I have satellite images but looking at all the noise, I'm sure China captured 640 square kilometers".
So, louder the noise, larger the territory captured?

Because MAN, all we need is one Arnab and we could take over Lhasa to Khorasan in one fell swoop of "NATION WANTS TO KNOW!".

No, seriously, you want the retired General's points rebutted with reason but you also are willing to engage in weird arguments like "What's all the hullaboo about?
Ignore logical proof like satellite imagery."
You are also indulging in finding faults of queens's sweet English rather than dealing with substance and issues,

If RAW knew about the plan in advance, the Army deployment would have taken place quite early, in planned manner and to thwart the Chinese buildup. Not like this that now you are rushing troops from all over and no one knows what is happening.

Sattelite images reveal the truth but also can hide the truth. It is also subject to interpretations - four men pretend or eight men per tent. However, all satellite information so close to LAC is required to be authenticated and corroborated. R&AW and the IB are not satellite imagery deptts of India? A satellite image is a piece of information and not intelligence - I hope you know that.

The question is - was the army informed of the Chinese movements and build up in advance? Why make a mockery of the issue ... the answer can only be in yes or no, There are no ifs and buts in this..

There are no "mean" and "mekh' in it...
 

Bhadra

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Adding to the same, can any CRPF A/C, D/C or Commandant tie up a Kashmiri stone pelter to the bonnet of his jeep and drive around town and get away with it?

We saw a CRPF jawan carrying EVM's heckled, abused, assaulted by a bunch of coward Kashmiri louts. He had an INSAS slung around his shoulder.

Would a Kashmiri dare do the same to an Army patrol?

What ITBP should/should not do is for the Home Ministry to decide. Give them clear orders to fire on the Chinese if they cross a red line, they will do it. Give them adequate training as RR, they will try and catch up.

Give them the same amount of ammunition to expend at the range, they will become proficient marksmen.
Do whatever you like,,,
but not ' Karo tum aur bhare koi aur...." baki democracy hai .. hartaal karo... Supreme Court jao...
 

Bhadra

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If orders and instructions that flow from the top are crystal clear, I don't see a reason why the chap at the border will act any differently.

We have seen CAPF's perform extraordinarily well in Naxal infested areas and against overwhelming odds.
If you think Army get crystal clear orders, you are sadly mistaken sir.
In last 74 years there has not been even a single instance of GoI issuing an Operational Directive to the Armed Forces even in1971 war or Even during Kargil. Armed Forces assume directions and do not look back.

We are not USA sir where the Army does not step out of their barracks without a written directive.

Ambiguity, obscurity and indecisiveness is the hallmark of Indian political system and more so of the bureaucracy. They do that more often to escape responsibility. Anything goes wrong - hang the general is the culture.

USA issues Security directive to its forces including to CIA every year and for every operation.
 

Gaurav Rai

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Looks like they are kind of doing a "DOKLAM" on us. This time Nepal is their Bhutan.
 

Sridhar_TN

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China is already a bigger economy than USA. It will catch up in military tech in next two decades.

By then India would surpass USA too in gdp ppp.

So we will have a world with four major poles.
China India USA and EU ( if it remains together).

That's by definition a multipolar world.
It can’t really catch up that fast militarily unless they innovate.

A small story. The technology that I work in is very sought after for a lot of applications. Military and commercial, mostly commercial. I’ve been to China plenty times and I’ve worked with their startups and medium range companies. Both of which are flush with cash.
What they try to do is probe and probe to get more access to IP core tech and source codes. It’s very evident from their approach that they find it more economical to buy or emulate rather than innovate. It’s sort of a natural thing for them. Very interesting. Observe all facets of their life. The rich in China emulate western culture and America is viewed with awe.

Bet you top dollar, that unless you innovate and bring that culture of not finding the short way out, it’s tough to compete with Americans or even Russians and the Israelis. That goes for India too.
There is a cultural angle that plays deeply into this. Germany, a small country definitely not the resource rich country even back then, was able to innovate and create groundbreaking technologies back in the day. Let’s see how long this gdp is sustained by the CCP.
As automation gains a stronger foothold in manufacturing, coupled with the fact that companies are slowly but definitely diversifying and pulling out, let’s see how the CCP will be able to sustain the economy.

Great tweet by syed akbaruddin:

 

tarunraju

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My prediction as to what can happen in the next 15 days:
  • The troop build-up in Ladakh will continue. India will match China man for man, and machine for machine. India will mobilize along the entire frontier
  • Pakistanis will attempt a large terror attack in India
  • India will launch an offensive into PoK to throw the Chinese calculus off balance. This will be a daring op into the most heavily defended sectors, a clash against PA X corps
  • India will demonstrate its ability to clamp Chinese maritime trade routes in IOR. Expect a dozen or so superheavy tankers and merchant vessels to be apprehended.
  • A "you are either with us or against us" warning will be sent to Sri Lanka and Nepal
  • INS Arihant and INS Arighat will be on hot-standby in the East China Sea, ready to burn Beijing to the ground
 
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