India China LAC & International Border Discussions

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garg_bharat

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If I am correct they have more than 100 Mig-29 in mothbolled condition. We can increase our squadron strength by buying them.
Not a viable option. Russia no longer has industrial capacity to churn things out quickly. It is not USSR.

Only option is to look towards USA. As I said before, India should try to get 100-150 F-16s with weapons.
 

Bhadra

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Thank God for Small Mercies : Some Halchal on ITBP Front
.....Meanwhile, a discussion has begun to place the border guarding force Indo-Tibetan Border Police (ITBP) under the operational command of the Army till the tension continues.

“The deployment and operations of the ITBP will be planned by the Army to conduct coordinated operations,” said a source.

Highly placed sources in Union Home Ministry said a large number of ITBP personnel deployed in law and order duties across the country is likely to be moved to various points along the LAC in the Ladakh and J&K within a few days.

While 15 companies have already been moved from J&K to Ladakh, “an additional 30 companies are likely to be sent to the LAC,” a source said.



About 40 ITBP companies are being withdrawn and are being mobilised to various locations along the LAC in various sectors including Ladakh and Arunachal Pradesh, official sources said. ..

The border guarding force is also moving its mechanised column assets like SUVs, all-terrain vehicles, snow scooters and trucks to forward locations in the midst of the projected increase in the number of troops at border units and fresh directives to undertake "additional" patrols.

They said all these units, with an operational strength of about 4,000 mountain-warfare trained troops, are being withdrawn from internal security duties from various parts of the country.

Apart from these 40, it is expected that 20 more such units could be withdrawn over a period of time so that an "optimum" presence of the force is maintained across 180 border posts and over 50 'staging camps' or temporary bases along the 3,488 km LAC that stretches from Karakoram Pass in Ladakh to Jachep La in Arunachal Pradesh.

 

maximus777

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Not a viable option. Russia no longer has industrial capacity to churn things out quickly. It is not USSR.

Only option is to look towards USA. As I said before, India should try to get 100-150 F-16s with weapons.
You do that and US will play ball with India. Veto guaranteed in UNSC, maybe even ToT and production facilities in India and long-term goodwill with top US military brass.
 

garg_bharat

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G
Nepal halts embankment repair work along border with India, lays claim to land

PATNA: In a move aimed at provoking India, Nepal governemnt halted an anti-erosion and embankment repair work, which was being carried out by the Water Resource Department (WRD) of Bihar government along the border and claimed that it had sovereignty over it.


The unprecedented move has caused panic due to possibility of future floods and largescale devastation amongst people of Bihar.

In fact, the embankment built on the Gandak barrage protects a major swathe of areas in North Bihar including East Champaran from being submerged due to heavy rains.

Woken up Biharis will go a long way in helping India win the war.

Flooding Bihar is equal to genocide of Bihari people. Just think of resentment.

Indian people will wake up only when their life and families are threatened.
 

Akula

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Not a viable option. Russia no longer has industrial capacity to churn things out quickly. It is not USSR.

Only option is to look towards USA. As I said before, India should try to get 100-150 F-16s with weapons.
But we have upgraded our Mig-29's into UPG standard in India only.
 

Sehwag213

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Whether war occurs or not , after this crisis is resolved there should be a thorough review of entire Indian defense system.
Why is that whenever there is a war, our ministers run to Russia/USA. This is absolutely pathetic.
On one hand our army chief says we are prepared for 2 front war, and on the other hand as soon as war situation arrives we run to Russia/ USA .
 

cannonfodder

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What action of the Modi administration has rubbed China and Xi Jinping the wrong way? What explains the Chinese misadventures in Ladakh?

I don't think there's anything which the Modi government has done which has made the Chinese adopt such an aggressive attitude (towards India).

A lot of people talk about maps being issued, about the division of Jammu & Kashmir, making Ladakh a separate Union territory. But nobody has ever explained how all this changes the larger conflict between India and China.

Maps which were issued after the bifurcation of the erstwhile state of Jammu and Kashmir were the same maps issued earlier except for new internal demarcation.

India claims the whole of Aksai Chin -- where is the debate in that? That is precisely the issue of dispute between India and China.

So, clearly it (the Chinese moves in Eastern Ladakh) doesn't have anything to do with the stand-off. At best this is an excuse, not a cause for what's happening.

The second narrative is how India's border infrastructure development is riling the Chinese. Now, if indeed that is the case, then I'm afraid that is China's problem, and not India's.

Is India going to decide what it does on its side of the LAC on the basis of China's likes and dislikes, or to satisfy China?

Does China keep India's concerns and sensitivities in view when it does what it does on its side of the LAC?

What entitlement do Chinese have that India needs to be sensitive to their concern?

And what inferiority complex is there within the Indian mindspace that because the Chinese don't want us to do something that would rile them and so India should not do it even though India don't like what the Chinese are doing.

Why can't we have the same standard for both sides?

If the Chinese can build (road infrastructure for movement of military) up right up to the LAC, then why can't India build (road infrastructure for movement of military)?

Therefore, the argument that India's infrastructure development has provoked the Chinese is completely untenable and disingenuous.

The third argument, which I find the most plausible, is that the Chinese are nibbling into Indian territory because they are able to do it.

And they have been consistently doing it; taking it (Indian territories) in small bites so that it doesn't become a big issue and escalate into something bigger.

And, after a few years, the entire complexion of the LAC has changed, which is what has been happening. So somewhere along the line, you have to say this far and no further.

This is something that every farmer in India who tills or owns some land also understands. He knows that if he accepts encroachment from his neighbours the other guy will take him for a weakling and a pushover and keep grabbing his land.

So, at what point of time do you say this far and no further?

I think that time has now come (for India in the context of Chinese activities in eastern Ladakh).

If India doesn't draw the line now, the Chinese will be right in thinking that they can always intimidate India.

What is China's intent behind doing what they are doing right now?
I suspect there could be two or three things. One is keep testing India's resolve to keep seeing how far they can push, to see how much territory they can nibble at. That is clearly their intent.
Are they actually looking for a fight?
In the current instance, I certainly don't think so. Because had they been wanting to enter a larger conflict, they would not be making the kind of noises they have been making at the official level.
At the official level, they want to reduce the tension even as they continue to stake their claim to territory which falls on India's side of the LAC.
More importantly, they haven't yet agitated the street (the Chinese people to create a mood for battle with India).
Normally, when the Chinese want to get into this kind of a mood to intimidate the other side, they use psychological warfare, main component of which is to excite the street.
The public pressure kind of provides them with a justification for moving ahead or at least not backing down and also building up this whole climate against a particular country. That hasn't happened till now.
They have played down their casualties. It might be on Chinese social media, but the official (Chinese) media is very quiet about it.
Why would China downplay the casualties -- the dead as well as injured -- on their side if China is trying to portray India as an aggressor?
If you are portraying India as an aggressor, and you are not admitting that India have delivered a number of blows to you, then what are you trying to do?
At one level, by portraying India as the aggressor, China is emphatically asserting the correctness of its actions; at another level by not acknowledging its own casualties, China is trying to keep a control over the dynamics of the situation.
Because once you make public the casualties the pressure from the street mounts and forces the hand of the government.
The greater the noise in the street, the more limited is your space to maneuver at the military level.
Like, for example, in India people are demanding a response (to the martyrdom of 20 Indian soldiers).
If the Chinese wanted a bigger conflict, they would not have waited out as much as they have.
Now, this does not mean that we have avoided the bigger conflict for all times to come; far from it.
We are much closer to a bigger conflict now than we have ever been in the past. Because going forward, I think things are now completely broken as far as the border mechanisms or SOPs (standard operating procedures related to the movement of troops and face-offs) are concerned.
I don't see how any Indian government or any Indian military leadership can now ask the soldiers to patrol without weapons.
The era of batons and sticks is over. I don't see how sticking to the old protocols is going to wash down anybody's throat anymore.
 

Akula

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"New Proposal" candidates:
  • Increase S-400 bns to 7?
  • Financial participation in the MiG-41 program for nice deals on production version later?
  • 1600 T-14 Armata MBTs?
  • K-77 BVRAAM?
If S400 order gets increased
According to Defence Decode:-
1 Full scale regiment= 4 battalion
1 battalion= 9 launcher+ 120 missiles( of various types)
So, 7 regiments total launchers= 252 launchers and more than 4100+ missiles (including spare and practice)
 

kaaleshwaar

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Has anyone got the map of areas we actually control in regards to Arunachal Pradesh and Ladakh
 

AmitG

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You do that and US will play ball with India. Veto guaranteed in UNSC, maybe even ToT and production facilities in India and long-term goodwill with top US military brass.
I have been saying all along that no need to burn bridges with Russia but Russian has its own national constraints which have forced it into an embrace with China. All those advocating the 'go it alone" policy need to understand that geopolitics is all about allies. The stronger your allies, the stronger your position becomes. How do you think a small island nation like Britain become a global power. It was because they mastered the art of making allies and playing one party against the other. They made their allies fight on their behalf. Ofcourse the US will demand its pound of flesh but then its worth paying to encircle the Chinese dragon. Remember that unlike the Chinese , India does not have any grandiose plans of world domination and such it does not put it on a collision course with the US.
 

patriots

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Is de escalation happening?
....................not so easily....................................
 

Tuco

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Ruskis will help with emergency purchase and consumables under existing treaties, but no "alignment" toward India.


The price we pay for being a strategic-hijda (not picking one side). NAMardgi.
Whenever Russia wants some moolah Putin will call she she will send some stinks to the border wallah, Delhi lets do some emergency purchasing hey we had all the time but yudde kaale shastrabyasa is the best. I am so sad and angry.
 

Sudarshana

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Don't take him too seriously. Even BJP doesn't take him too seriously.
He sources are mostly his erstwhile students who are in key positions worldwide. As some commentators have pointed out onset of winters in Oct is perhaps the best time to launch a counter but of course China might have other plans.
 

garg_bharat

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But we have upgraded our Mig-29's into UPG standard in India only.
India lags seriously in avionics production. Hard to say how much of UPG is produced in India. I doubt it is a lot.

It may have many Israeli and French components.

Any upgrade project in India runs in decades not months. Because parts have to come from so many foreign suppliers.

Not a viable strategy when you are in a hurry.
 

garg_bharat

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Whenever Russia wants some moolah Putin will call she she will send some stinks to the border wallah, Delhi lets do some emergency purchasing hey we had all the time but yudde kaale shastrabyasa is the best. I am so sad and angry.
You are of course wrong. You falsely imagine Putin and Xi are plotting against India together. This is very negative thinking.

This is the kind of negative thinking that is putting India down.

Me thinks just get what you can from other countries. Put own industry in high gear. BUT goddamn prepare for war. Don't sit on your backsides over-analyzing.
 

Waanar

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Don't take him too seriously. Even BJP doesn't take him too seriously.
While his tone is always irksome, this man is knowledgeable (especially about China) although he seems to have a soft spot for them.
I wonder though, won't it be terrible weather for offensive ops in September?
 
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