India China LAC & International Border Discussions

[tarunraju]

The ingenuity of some artists never ceases to amaze.

 

[Godhimself]

Even if its true, at least someone has the guts to take on the Chinese rather than letting the Chinese just bully us. Watch Capt. Amrinder Singh's tv intereviews yesterday where he talk how Maj Gen Sagat Singh pulverized the Chinese into submission in 1967. Our govts should have learnt by now that the Chinese do not understand anything but force or strength. Modi made the same mistake as Nehru did as he tried to do a Hindi Chini bhai bhai with Xi and trusted him . Just like at that time, the Chinese have again back stabbed.

If Lt. gen harinder singh ordered to burn chinese tent form our area, then he was right in what he did.
And it was around sunset, so this wasn't done in pitch darkness, we openly did that to give msg to china.

 

[Mikel]

Even if its true, at least someone has the guts to take on the Chinese rather than letting the Chinese just bully us. Watch Capt. Amrinder Singh's tv intereviews yesterday where he talk how Maj Gen Sagat Singh pulverized the Chinese into submission in 1967. Our govts should have learnt by now that the Chinese do not understand anything but force or strength. Modi made the same mistake as Nehru did as he tried to do a Hindi Chini bhai bhai with Xi and trusted him . Just like at that time, the Chinese have again back stabbed.

I understand, but the guy was trying to pin the blame Col. Santosh Babu and his men's death on Lt. Gen Singh and calling for his resignation. That's bang out of order and it's a shame that it's Indian who thinks that way

 

[Gshvar]

Sushma Swaraj didn't have revocation of Article 370 and "PoK, Aksai Chin ke liye jaan de denge" statements made by Home Minister on the floor of parliament as backdrop of negotiations.

The Chinese are here to grab as much as they can.

The MEA will keep engaging with Chinese FM.

The Army, Forces will do what they have to do.

Wrong.

Revocation of A370 has nothing to do with Chinese action. It only serves as excuse not the cause.

The main cause is the road which India building to DBO. It will checkmate the connectivity from Tibet to Xinjiang. The chinese used north Korea to blow the building between Pyongang and Seol border. What does that have to do A370? That happened on the same day.

 

[IndianHawk]

The way the Chinese have amassed in Galwan they are really just sitting ducks for artillery if things go hot. From whatever one gathers from the sat images that have been put out the IA is much more thinly spread out and it could be for this exact reason. Sometimes numbers can be a handicap and can be a reason for more casualties.

Yup Chinese lack of experience of mountain warfare is showing in they they are huddling in narrow valley. It was good strategy in peacetime but now is a liability.

 

[Sanglamorre]

"Missing in action (MIA) is a casualty classification assigned to combatants, military chaplains, combat medics, and prisoners of war who are reported missing during wartime or ceasefire. They may have been killed, wounded, captured, or deserted. If deceased, neither their remains nor grave has been positively identified. Becoming MIA has been an occupational risk for as long as there has been warfare."

From Wikipedia.

Is the technicality that it wasn't a declared war so they said none MIA?

 

[patriots]

Astra lsp was already in production. Also taxi trails are going on lca.

Taxi trials ...last time I heard integration is in progress with lca.....

A source will be good to quench my curiosity

 

[captscooby81]

i have lost all interest in reading anything from that forum these days , the veterans in that forum also have very closed view group and they can't discuss anything beyond what their believe , just saying this from being that telegram group and experienced what they say. Take everything with truck load of salt , i am not saying IA didn't give back but all these some over smart actions doesn't hold much credibility

FROM BRF :

1. T+0 hours - Galwan mishap happens, PLA goes back on its word (the right word is betrayal or inability to keep your word) and kills some unarmed IA soldiers. It turns out later that there is more loss in PLA side because of their stupidity but that info only is apparent after T+ x HOURS. No body yet knows this outcome.
1 b) Some of our men also get taken hostages in this
2 a). The political and military leadership had already gamed many situations (including what if Chinese fire the first shot and kill unarmed IA soldiers).
2 b )Per the plan, IA already knows what should be the second step (targets, logistics, backup all preplanned). All moves are gamed. Some other place of IA choosing is pre-selected, forces move in. We have huge element of surprise plus the force is overwhelming and dimensions used for this would have happened months in the escalation order (i.e. what should have been done months in the fighting was our opening shot). Totally unexpected by the chinese
3.T+y hours, goal achieved, some IA casualty and more chicom casualty (mostly because we had element of surprise), area captured, reinforced
4) The beauty many Chinese soldier who had previously come to do salami slicing cannot now go back. They are trapped with IA from all sides. We have captured that was not until unequivocally in our hand.
5. Total death in operations 1 and 2 from IA =20
6. Now negotiation starts. Friends of Chines and TSP in India are all over the news with news of Indian soldier hostages. But within a day or two that news disappear. Why, well we have surrounded a much larger occupying force that will be slaughtered if anything were to happen to Indian hostages. Quickly the hostages are released. (Hint have you heard that news).
7. Chinese have a bigger dilemma, what to do with the occupying force - if they return in exchange they give up that land, if they don't return, well they are at our mercy. And the situation is as such.
8. This round we have won, let no one tell you otherwise.

 

[IndianHawk]

Taxi trials ...last time I heard integration is in progress with lca.....

A source will be good to quench my curiosity

@Chinmoy confirmed that taxi trails have been going on for quite some time.

 

[another_armchair]

Wrong.

Revocation of A370 has nothing to do with Chinese action. It only serves as excuse not the cause.

The main cause is the road which India building to DBO. It will checkmate the connectivity from Tibet to Xinjiang. The chinese used north Korea to blow the building between Pyongang and Seol border. What does that have to do A370? That happened on the same day.

Yeah sure.

 

[Sanglamorre]

The ingenuity of some artists never ceases to amaze.

View attachment 50609

Mod, requesting you to be lenient at posters who were very emotionally charged, incl. me last night. If needed, remove messages but don't ban. Was just unbanned after 2 days.

 

[AmitG]

If this isn't official, what is!

No Indian troops missing in action; China should confine activities to its side of border: MEA

India on Thursday asked China to confine its activities to its side of the Line of Actual Control and that it must not take any unilateral action to alter it. Referring to the Galwan Valley clash, External Affairs Ministry Spokesperson Anurag Srivastava said India was strongly committed to...

economictimes.indiatimes.com

View attachment 50598

They were accounted for so to be fair they were not missing. We knew they were POWs . Somethings need to be kept under wraps if not there is just more hysteria. No doubt the govt and the MEA need to up their game but let's not start shouting for every little thing. Let the IA do its job. They got back the soldiers and if reports are to be believed it was by reverse blackmailing the Chinese.

 

[Abhijat]

I have few questions, anyone with right answers please do guide:

What were the :

1. Patrolling limit,
2. Perceived LAC,
3. Permanent Structures.

At Galwan

With respect to :

1. Before April 2020
2. Between April-June 2020
3. After the clash.

I am trying to find out, what external affairs office meant when they said June 6th agreement, and where are we according to current situation ?

 

[tarunraju]

Mod, requesting you to be lenient at posters who were very emotionally charged, incl. me last night. If needed, remove messages but don't ban. Was just unbanned after 2 days.

I am a benevolent mod. This thread is the most detailed chronicle of the Indian nationalist perspective of the situation at the LAC, on the internet. It's also a safe-space to say things you can't on Twitter, /ra/ndia (or even the uptight old-fart BRF). Where I step in is when there are bickering among the posters. So help us by being civil to each other.

 

[tsunami]

Let me Recap for the confused:

The Govts statements have been close to true and purposeful at each time they were released. This is how.

1) The first Indian presser said 3 indian dead and 5 chinese killed with many injured.
This move was calibrated for psy-ops purposes. This release got Chinese Gobar Times to say "there were casualties on both sides but can not release numbers out of goodwill"
Benefit: Got the Chinks to admit casualties, so they cant go back to saying 0 casaulties and try to do a PR win like pakis in feb 2019. They are cornered and now chinese H & D depends on Indian vs Chinese casualty ratio. So, the ball is in Indian Govts court. Smart Move.

2) Till 18 hours after the incident GoI did not release info. of this event.
Reason: Trying to determine what actually happened, fact finding. Strategizing. Saving the injured. And ongoing hostage negotiations on both sides. Any info. release at this sensitive time could force Indian govts hand and give chinese leverage during negotiations and cost our mens lives.
Result: Govt got all of our men released safely and in return released captured chinese soldiers. Chinese condition to release our soldiers is that number of chinese captured and released is to be kept secret for now. You can guess if the chinese want this info kept secret, it must be that we whopped their azz and captured a lot more chinks and they want to hide info. because of the shame it will bring on the PLA. Indian army must have captured videos and recordings of chinese in our custody that we can release later to pressurize chinks when needed.
Again, a clear Indian victory.

3) When Indian Presser said No Indian MIA. That statement was also true. By definition if its known that your soldier is alive, well and held by the enemy, he is not missing. So GoI only released that statement after verifying the numbers of dead, injured and pows held by the chinese. So there does exist transparency at a greater level within Indian Military than the chinese.

4) PM Modi's broadcast honoring the men was also timed to perfection. He came on TV only after all Indian PoWs had been secured. And then he revealed his cards to the chinese. In his address he said "maarte maarte mare hein" & "Unka balidan vyartha nahin jayega" Meaning India will retaliate/seek a cost from the chinese for this. This is comitting India to war. Remember, after Pulwama PM Modi said similar things on TV and Balakot happened 12 days later. Now the Chinks are pissing their pants waiting and trying to guess when and in what form Yamraaj will visit them. We got the chinks exactly where we want them to be. We will do it at a time and place of our choosing.

5) GoI also has to caliberate its release in accordance with the public mood. It cant escalate to war without preparing the public mentally for it first. And it cant be seen as pussyfooting and not defending indian soldiers either. So GoI does staggered release of info - little by little - to guage public reaction and base decisions on that. Like it or not, this is a democracy and this is how things work.

6) In a big, free country like India, GoI's each message has to reach multiple audience with differing goals. Each stakeholder - Army men currently serving, their families, the aam public, opposition parties, partys own nationalist jingoist base, the enemy (chinese) all try to decipher each action and statement of GoI to predict future movements. Government has to take all this into account. Keep this in mind, anytime you try to interpret who, what, why of govt messaging.

7) Chinese Intentions: In this episode, the Chinese plan was to lure in and ambush Indians and kill, torture to do shock and awe on us, paralyze the GoI and get tactical concessions as condition of release. They also took some hostages so they could record videos and do cheap PR like pakis and to try to humiliate and pressurize us. They did this by signing bogus de-escalation agreements and laid a trap for unprepared Indians when they went to verify. Basically a betrayal and Mooh Mein Ram Bagal Mein Churi. For this they will pay.

1.) No global times tweet did any damage to China... It was US leaked report of 35 death which gave some sort of legitimacy that Chinese too had significant causality. Like Falcon said on other forum that number is highly doubtful. What GOI did wasn't out of planing but result of simply lake of idea about have happened.

2.) I highly doubt this Chinese POW theory, why would you hide it if we have soldier in our custody. The other theory might be true where we surrounded Chinese post with some significant number of troops in it, which China couldn't reinforce nor they could pull their troops out. We got our soldier released and not talking about because again we have nothing to show. (I am hoping 2nd is true otherwise we have made some sort of comprises which govt. will never revel)

3.) So that is what it was a smart lie, in name technicality.

4.) "Unka balidan vyartha nahin jayega" unfortunately this has become new "Kadi Ninda"(Hope I am wrong this time)

5.) Well unlike last time with Phathankot, public is not interested this time. There is no discussion at all, whatsapp, FB anywhere everyone is busy with Sushant Singh Rajput.

This round can be successfully concluded in favor of China. From last years episode China did learned you can immediately bring Modi on table if you have a POW(And our armed forces always deliver same to the leadership). China calculated it correct and we did went for negotiations.

Everyone can talk big and blame Nehru and MMS, Modi might be better then them but no where near 56 inches we talk about.

Will we retaliate only time will tell(Hope we do this time).

 

[TheSeeker!]

Anyone with one iota of common sense and thinking capa ity would know that the Chinese would not let go POW out of goodwill gesture


They would have paraded them and made a spectacle like Pakis had done with Abhi. "Released them as a peace gesture"

We really have a bargaining chip. We just don't know what. Yet. But it appears to be a big bargaining chip , else you would have seen our POW being paraded for all media to see

i have lost all interest in reading anything from that forum these days , the veterans in that forum also have very closed view group and they can't discuss anything beyond what their believe , just saying this from being that telegram group and experienced what they say. Take everything with truck load of salt , i am not saying IA didn't give back but all these some over smart actions doesn't hold much credibility

 

[AsuraKiller203]

I would request all hyperventilating, ranting, modi this modi that and the confused crowd to do three things that will help things make sense:

1) Read at least 100 previous thread pages before you post a question or article. I see 90% of peoples concerns and frustration have already been debated and answered by other members before. If only you read all the replies and get a whole picture before reaching conclusions you wont be frustrated and channel your energy in the right direction.

2) Learn to read between the lines. Especially GoI statements and biased defense analysts. You can do this by

3) Reading, Observing and learning from esteemed senior members here and trusting their thought process a little more than the ordinary new guy with generic one liners. Many experienced members have been reading the tea leaves right, just following them for a long period of time will teach you to discuss and interpret events properly. Nobody is a superman or has a crystal ball but we want to have productive, fruitful discussions.

 

[Gshvar]

I have few questions, anyone with right answers please do guide:

What were the :

1. Patrolling limit,
2. Perceived LAC,
3. Permanent Structures.

At Galwan

With respect to :

1. Before April 2020
2. Between April-June 2020
3. After the clash.

I am trying to find out, what external affairs office meant when they said June 6th agreement, and where are we according to current situation ?

As per political map whole Aksai Chin as per LAC its very confusing. Because LAC is not demarcated. You can go 10kms into Aksai Chin they can 10km into ladakh that's why it's LAC not IB.

Clash happened because most probably chinese started constructing new bunkers there and fortifying their position further Inside. When the IA platoon observed they objected and that caused the clash.

 

[Lancer]

Mod, requesting you to be lenient at posters who were very emotionally charged, incl. me last night. If needed, remove messages but don't ban. Was just unbanned after 2 days.

I myself just came back from a week long ban for something unrelated (whole week felt pretty harsh, I'd have understood a day or two) - so I had to follow much of this crisis through private browsers (which don't save your last read post on a thread, so you have to manually find your place and catch up every day); and of course no comments or comment like/reaction privileges. Pure torture

 

[tarunraju]

5.) Well unlike last time with Phathankot, public is not interested this time. There is no discussion at all, whatsapp, FB anywhere everyone is busy with Sushant Singh Rajput

But the BJP is very interested this time. Avenging Galwan is the only way they can retain power in Bihar as elections are due.

Much of the calls for retribution are in fact coming from BJP party workers in Bihar, because they know they're toast without a military response. BJP is rattled after having lost Jharkhand, and is keen on not losing Bihar (as that would have a cascading effect into UP come 2022).