India China LAC & International Border Discussions

[mist_consecutive]

Okay, first of all, apologies for my incorrect post yesterday (below quoted one). I did some research on Doklam issue. Chinese have not made any ingress after India's objection. But the story does not ends here.

I hate to spoil everyone's mood here.

I was looking at the Doklam plateau, post-2017 standoff, and to my utter surprise, the whole plateau has been captured by Chinese!

View attachment 48521
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I mean, has the whole posturing and standoff by the Indian military on behalf of Bhutan a whole waste? What was the Indian military doing?

Dhoklam plateau was always under their control. Stand-off occurred when they tried to extend the road into indian territory.

Here's the fun thing, Doklam area is disputed between China & Bhutan, but by 2005 (some reports say even earlier) China illegally ingressed into the northern part of Doklam plateau and made road till Indian BoP Doka La.

Bhutan protested but well, what else they can do?

=========================================================

During Doklam-standoff, the Indian Army crossed into disputed Doklam territory (illegally occupied by Chinese) to stop road construction towards Zampelri ridge which overlooks the Siliguri corridor.

Picture taken from Doklam (chinese-occupied side)

Give me the coordinates please.

Search for Doklam plateau in Google Earth.

27Deg, 17Min, 40Sec North, 88Deg, 55Min East Approx.

Every satellite wala expert claims different things.
It's difficult to identify ground reality based on their coordinates which can be from anywhere.

Few days back you were claiming that we should not depend on osint information now you are claiming based on that only?

Bold - Touche buddy Corrected it now.

==========================================================

Too long, Don't Read - No, China has not made any progress after India's objection in the 2017-Doklam standoff. The northern part of Doklam was already captured by Chinese illegally around 2004-2005. Chinese tried to capture Southern-part which overlooks Siliguri corridor and was stopped by India.

 

[Karthi]

Everyone please calm nothing going to happen , the entire world economy is collapsed , a war will be the last nail on it . This is just a scarring technique

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Okay, first of all, apologies for my incorrect post yesterday (below quoted one). I did some research on Doklam issue. Chinese have not made any ingress after India's objection. But the story does not ends here.





Here's the fun thing, Doklam area is disputed between China & Bhutan, but by 2005 (some reports say even earlier) China illegally ingressed into the northern part of Doklam plateau and made road till Indian BoP Doka La.

View attachment 48586

Bhutan protested but well, what else they can do?

=========================================================

During Doklam-standoff, the Indian Army crossed into disputed Doklam territory (illegally occupied by Chinese) to stop road construction towards Zampelri ridge which overlooks the Siliguri corridor.
View attachment 48588
View attachment 48589
Picture taken from Doklam (chinese-occupied side)

View attachment 48592




Search for Doklam plateau in Google Earth.

27Deg, 17Min, 40Sec North, 88Deg, 55Min East Approx.



Bold - Touche buddy Corrected it now.

==========================================================

Too long, Don't Read - No, China has not made any progress after India's objection in the 2017-Doklam standoff. The northern part of Doklam was already captured by Chinese illegally around 2004-2005. Chinese tried to capture Southern-part which overlooks Siliguri corridor and was stopped by India.

I appreciate your deep analysis

 

[Skyh3ck]

Agree India is never getting UNSC ... Even USA, Russia, and other countries don't want it...

Indian philosophy is that you do good to others.. they will do same..

But is Kalyuga.. no matter how india bahave all other country see their interest first..

US is only singing good about india.. not because they love India.. because they hate China...

If India want to be a super power country.. they need to do all it own..

But Modi will not stay forever .. so it also depends what kind of future leader we have

 

[IndianHawk]

HERO IS BRO!!!!
View attachment 48593

Infact our speed is only growing.
I posted in facts and data thread that we have Chinese speed of highway construction. And now we will build even faster then Chinese as we invest more.

In next few years we will be building border infrastructure much faster then Chinese can imagine.
Laddakh becoming a UT has removed all political barriers.

 

[Gautam Sarkar]

Infact our speed is only growing.
I posted in facts and data thread that we have Chinese speed of highway construction. And now we will build even faster then Chinese as we invest more.

In next few years we will be building border infrastructure much faster then Chinese can imagine.
Laddakh becoming a UT has removed all political barriers.

Please continue posting on that thread. They were all very informative reads.

 

[IndianHawk]

Agree India is never getting UNSC ... Even USA, Russia, and other countries don't want it...

Indian philosophy is that you do good to others.. they will do same..

But is Kalyuga.. no matter how india bahave all other country see their interest first..

US is only singing good about india.. not because they love India.. because they hate China...

If India want to be a super power country.. they need to do all it own..

But Modi will not stay forever .. so it also depends what kind of future leader we have

There are many more from where modi came.
It's not about modi but reinvigorated Indian civilization. We have survived for 6000 + years and have kept our culture largely intact. Even Chinese can't claim that as they destroyed their own culture to copy ussr.

 

[IndianHawk]

Please continue posting on that thread. They were all very informative reads.

I want these posts to be factually accurate so it take time to gather authentic data.

So that thread will move slowly but surely .

 

[cereal killer]

Eh ! You think they'll come our side and we won't enter their side! Two can play a game .

Maybe we did but then Chinese Global times their FM's would have issued statements like they did in Doklam. This has been kept relatively low profile. Something bigger is cooking here. CCP maybe trying to divert their masses from Covid 19 crisis. That is why I feel Indian authorities are also silent & wait & watch game is going on.

 

[Hari Sud]

Agree India is never getting UNSC ... Even USA, Russia, and other countries don't want it...

Indian philosophy is that you do good to others.. they will do same..

But is Kalyuga.. no matter how india bahave all other country see their interest first..

US is only singing good about india.. not because they love India.. because they hate China...

If India want to be a super power country.. they need to do all it own..

But Modi will not stay forever .. so it also depends what kind of future leader we have

Bad argument advanced. If they really hate China then all they got to do is to stop importing consumer goods and industrial goods from them. China hardly buys anything other than food grains from America. Hence America will not be much affected. Again if they hate China, who else they want to love. They have made the right choice of India except they are having heartache trying to send money to India at the same level as they sent to China from 1997 to 2013 ( one Trillion dollars FDI)

 

[IndianHawk]

Maybe we did but then Chinese Global times their FM's would have issued statements like they did in Doklam. This has been kept relatively low profile. Something bigger is cooking here. CCP maybe trying to divert their masses from Covid 19 crisis. That is why I feel Indian authorities are also silent & wait & watch game is going on.

They hyped doklam thinking India would back down and Chinese status would rise. Exact opposite happened . India didn't budge and china had to back down . It demolished Chinese prestige and doklam became a case study of how to deal with Chinese world over.

So this time chinese are trying to keep it under wraps lest they be humiliated globally again.

As for India we always act silently so our methods are consistent.

 

[IndianHawk]

Bad argument advanced. If they really hate China then all they got to do is to stop importing consumer goods and industrial goods from them. China hardly buys anything other than food grains from America. Hence America will not be much affected. Again if they hate China, who else they want to love. They have made the right choice of India except they are having heartache trying to send money to India at the same level as they sent to China from 1997 to 2013 ( one Trillion dollars FDI)

They idiotically thought that by investing in china they could mold ccp into western flavor.

Anyway now china is being blocked left and right.

Pension funds are blocked from investing in china .
Chinese companies are being forced to delist from American exchanges.
Chinese companies involved in uighur oppression being sanctioned.

Huwei is devoid of chips. And much more is coming.

America is finally decoupling from china. Naturally a lot more investment come to India as a result of these steps.

 

[cereal killer]

They hyped doklam thinking India would back down and Chinese status would rise. Exact opposite happened . India didn't budge and china had to back down . It demolished Chinese prestige and doklam became a case study of how to deal with Chinese world over.

So this time chinese are trying to keep it under wraps lest they be humiliated globally again.

As for India we always act silently so our methods are consistent.

As long as our road construction & infrastructure project isn't halted we should be fine. Any pressure from China must be ignored. We must not stop now.

 

[Bhadra]

Is the situation really so bad as some members of the forum are making it to be ??
So far India China-LAC is concerned they had already secured their claim lines in 1962 barring a few places which are of no consequences.

China has settled its borders with Sikkim, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Myanmar, Nepal and Bhutan based on the treaties Tibatans / China had concluded with the British, However, not with India stating they do not acknowledge treaties concluded with the British. Having Secured their claims, keeping dispute open with India is a strategic decision of China.

Post-1962, the LAC has always been used as a coercive diplomatic and military tool to conduct foreign policy with India. China considers it a trump card especially with respect to the disputed status of J&K and to protect Pakistan.

With the abolition of Article 370 and 35A some wind has been taken off the China Pakistan major nexus on J&K.

The progressive development of infrastructure near LAC all along is reducing or rather fixing the Chinese ability to use LAC as a coercion tool with which China can embarrass and pressurize India. With distances between two military forces reducing and Indian ability to react fast, China has almost lost the edge which it enjoyed over Indian Forces. LAC is losing the status of Strategic tool for China.

That is a big change in the situation and status quo. Once this edge is lost. the playground is bound to shift somewhere else - may be IOR or SCS or may be POK/GB. That my friends is bound to rattle PLA.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

That is How Krishna Menon and Nehru thought prior to 1962... What good will it be of China attacking India? What can they take from India? How can Communists attack an anti-Colonial, nonaligned democratic nation?

That is exactly how Nehru made the statement " ..will throw them out... ".

But China attacked and threw out Nehru from this world... USSR and USA watched from the sidelines or rather they did not even look because they were busy wielding nuclear missiles at each other in Pig Bay of Cuba.....

The IB and Indian police forces having created all problems in Ladakh from 1950 ran away and poor bloody Indian Army which had earned an image for itself all over the world including in China was routed in unprepared shallow trenches all over Ladakh and NEFA and decimated by Chinese artillery barrages...

I am not saying that we shouldnt be prepared.

I am saying this doesnt serve them any purpose unlike 1962.

Secondly this is the worst time for China to attack any country.

If i was in charge of china i wouldnt do that.

What i see is China having a problem with every country at a time the whole world is against it coz of Coronovirus.

The bigger picture could be something else.

 

[Pandora]

Am sure many countries are waiting to pounch on china this time.India has advantage in good numbers and expertise to take the fight to new level.

 

[Bhadra]

Shiv Shankar menon's take on things...
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Refer to all my posts on the subject.
Have not I been telling that to all?

100m this side, 100m that side is a dream. One can not even say 4 km inside because there is no agreed fixation of even the perceptions of LAC. Leave aside experts like Ajay Shukla who does not know anything except ass of a tank.. Galwan is too far off his career graph...

Shiv Shankar Menon is one of the most acknowledged and experienced China experts amongst Indian diplomats and since his young age has been on China desk including his stay in Tibet and China with his diplomat father. I have seen him working on many experts committees as director and JS as a member of the India China Expert group ceased with the problem of identification of LAC. One can take whatever he says as that of "Horses Mouth"

 

[Bhadra]

I am not saying that we shouldnt be prepared.

I am saying this doesnt serve them any purpose unlike 1962.

Secondly this is the worst time for China to attack any country.

If i was in charge of china i wouldnt do that.

What i see is China having a problem with every country at a time the whole world is against it coz of Coronovirus.

The bigger picture could be something else.

You are again simply ignoring History and repeating yourself.. .
1962 was the worst time to attack India as the Chinse were almost famined, there were intraparty squabbles in CCP, there was an international crisis going in in the form of Cuban Missile crisis, USSR had threatened China that in the event of they attacking India, USSR will respond on USSR- China border, USSR had just commenced supply of newly made MIG -21 to India....

But the Chinese attacked with a bang..

 

[Bhadra]

Okay, first of all, apologies for my incorrect post yesterday (below quoted one). I did some research on Doklam issue. Chinese have not made any ingress after India's objection. But the story does not ends here.





Here's the fun thing, Doklam area is disputed between China & Bhutan, but by 2005 (some reports say even earlier) China illegally ingressed into the northern part of Doklam plateau and made road till Indian BoP Doka La.

View attachment 48586

Bhutan protested but well, what else they can do?

=========================================================

During Doklam-standoff, the Indian Army crossed into disputed Doklam territory (illegally occupied by Chinese) to stop road construction towards Zampelri ridge which overlooks the Siliguri corridor.
View attachment 48588
View attachment 48589
Picture taken from Doklam (chinese-occupied side)

View attachment 48592




Search for Doklam plateau in Google Earth.

27Deg, 17Min, 40Sec North, 88Deg, 55Min East Approx.



Bold - Touche buddy Corrected it now.

==========================================================

Too long, Don't Read - No, China has not made any progress after India's objection in the 2017-Doklam standoff. The northern part of Doklam was already captured by Chinese illegally around 2004-2005. Chinese tried to capture Southern-part which overlooks Siliguri corridor and was stopped by India.

Thanks for your clarification. I too saw your post but keeping in your good contributions thought it apt to keep mum.

Nothing hurts a soldier on the ground more than misinformation and deriding their efforts and poor dangerous conditions on the front. I was also alarmed with your post and I am sure it would have raised many hackles..

 

[Bhadra]

Everyone please calm nothing going to happen , the entire world economy is collapsed , a war will be the last nail on it . This is just a scarring technique

First World War occurred on collapse of the World economy..
The Second World war was triggered by the great depression of 1939 ... Germany devalued the currency so much that the war damages of WWI could be paid in a single day and others looked at their face bewildered... one needed a suitcase full of currency to buy a beer...

India needs to be on guard if Indians wish to protect their newly found BJP led Nationalist resurgence .... that is what is under threat from all sides - Pakistan, Nepal, China, Communists, Left and libarts, Ayyar or Ayangers.. Sonia and Monia... All wish Modi lead India down...