India China LAC & International Border Discussions

Gshvar

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Can anyone shed light on this. I do not know much about AjaiShukla, but he claims we have moved our borders to show that the chinese have not infringed our borders.
View attachment 49208
Well Indian claim is much more than that, but Yes, chinese have come as far as finger 4. They shouldn't be there. They should be some where not beyond finger 7.
 

ninja hattori

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Never read of this 'deal' anywhere . do you have any source?

Also the only way to secure route is if Pakistan holds it , since we can always side with Americans and backstab them.Besides why should Pakistan willingly give us GB . China using Pakistan to bog us down
was always the plan.

This is all nonsense. :rofl: Stop trolling us dude.
so y do think this has SUDDENLY appeared in midst of a war like situation in there mouthpiece? any explanation

advising India to Join BRI?

The sources are already given in above post. Albeit this even I have heard in some track 2 dialogues when India received the invitation and didn't even back BRI as a observer, whereas US and japan sent there observers.
 

aghamarshana

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offt opic, but i had to say this...

meanwhile something approaching from the west, 2020 should have it's own thread. not a boring week went by since sulemani killing.
Delhi - riots ✓:crying:
Kolkata - cyclone ✓:crying:
Mumbai - cyclone ✓:crying:
Chennai - still 6 fkin months to go:scared1:

2020 screwing around our Mega cities.
Destiny plotting Golden Quadrilateral?:frusty:
 

mokoman

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Chinese are trying to show that their communist government is doing better than rest of the democracies. Whatever is happening in US, or other democratic countries be it corona spread or protests seems to have Chinese footprint.
"Anonymous" hackers just leaked Brazil president Bolsonaros's credit card number and private info + some crazy shit about trump assaulting women and settling law suits.
Could be part of a larger campaign.
 

mist_consecutive

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Not only that, but each platoon of IA is also armed with at least one Carl-Gustav. HEAT rounds will wreak havoc on light armor.




It will be a bloodbath for both sides.
Fortunately (or unfortunately), both countries have an appetite for war.
But China going to war with India currently will be in every way disastrous to them. It is hardly unlikely China will be able to retrieve any large-scale territory from India if both countries go all-out. Localized areas like Pangong Tso banks yes, Ladakh/Kashmir, no.

However, China has everything to lose -
  1. Getting branded as the aggressor and placed under huge sanctions. The countries not supporting America in boycotting China will start after this episode.
  2. China loses the Indian market, no Chinese ships will pass from the Indian Ocean & Arabian sea [Indian Navy joins the game]. Trade takes a big hit.
  3. This opportunity will be used by America to stir up South China Sea disputes.
  4. Pakistan may have to choose a neutral side due to backlash from American and Saudi masters.
  5. It will practically turn into World War 3 for China with every neighbour except Russia & North Korea (doesn't matter) hostile towards them.




I won't count on that. Chinese are nerdy and are experts in stealing information. They fucking created a stealth fighter copying F22 & F35.
And going by practical experience, last proper war India fought was in 1971, and the dynamics of modern warfare has changed multifold by then.
@WARREN SS dude did you legit just copy-pasted my this reply to sf forum 🤣
 

jadoogar

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Can anybody educate me!!! Chinkis is going to loose money I guess. But how much and what will be the possible fallouts? Of HK being dealt like the rest of the China.
Hard to say. Fruit phone is still Chinese and fruit has $300 billion in annual revenue. Generously if $100 bn goes to USA (profits, taxes, local spend) who is collecting the remaining 200 billion. Can one really trust fruit claims of where the money goes?

Also battery car has now a big car plant in prc built with quick approvals in record time.

40 chor company is listed in NY with 400 bn market cap
Video game company with 500 bn mcap

Stanleeee is continuously raising China weightage in global stock and bond indices

Is HK that important then ???????
 

Niks_12

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Can anyone shed light on this. I do not know much about AjaiShukla, but he claims we have moved our borders to show that the chinese have not infringed our borders.
There is no road after finger 4 to cross over to the Indian side of the border. It's just a ledge where only a single column of soldiers can walk on foot. Once you cross over though, after a while there is an ITBP camp and Indian road (non-metallic). So there is no chance that the APCs drove from finger 8 to finger 4 and then crossed over to the Indian side. You can refer to below video which is a must watch (and it has a picture of finger 4 and the ledge).


I used to have some kind of respect for Shukla (Arjun supporter?), but after this episode, I feel he is nothing but a logical extension of the Congi brigade, hell bent to misinform the general public and malign the government. In any case, what could have happened is that
- The Chinese crossed over on foot to the Indian side beyond finger 4 and were pushed back.
- The scuffle video doing rounds, could be somewhere between finger 4 and finger 8. India claims till finger 8 and China claims till finger 4 and there are frequent scuffles in this overlapping grey area. Regarding the APC not being on a black top road, could be a part of the road is just rocky and not black top etc. Seeing the topography, it is very much possible that a black top road is not possible all the way.
finger 4.png

- China has built the road till finger 4 during Kargil days when our troops were diverted leaving this area thin. However, it could be that they are trying to disrupt IA patrolling in the grey area.
- There was another incursion in Galwan which again has been pushed back as per satellite imagery.

Maybe both the IA videos were controlled expose to deflate the blatant lies of the likes of Shukla and give some sense of what is happening out there. They did come in very quick succession and went viral, later to be rejected; however, they do show the same areas where the myth of 5k-10k Chinese soldiers is doing the round.
 
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Bhadra

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I did see this interesting debate.

The problem with Ajay Shukla is That there is lot of rhetoric in his arguments than substance. His sole focus is to win a point for the family and then secuere their confidence, From that angle he is more of a politician than a military expert,

1. The Focal Point of "Ajaya Shukla Yajurveda" is "Rajnath Uvach" - thus spake Rajanath Singh. He is wrongly being ascribed to have admitted that there are large number of troops in the Indian territory. What Rajnath said was about movement of large number of Chinese troops.

2. Is there a line in Galwan and Sikkim - Galwan absolutely not. Sikkim also gray areas exist. Doklam is the result of the treaty describing boundary as "...and then follows the ridge to the junction of Tibet Bhutan border ..." an inadequate description. Similarly, North Sikkim watershed is not demarcated and open to interpretation as to where is watershed at a plateau. At Galwan - there is no question of an agreed line of LAC - Chinese claim lines of 1959 or 1962 are not recognized. There is no subsequent agreement that fixed the LC anywhere here. So our area and there are as agreed upon does not actually exist in Galwan.

3. Satellite Interpretation. Both speakers have a point. Ajay Shukla is right in saying that it is not a job for a novice but Ayer is absolutely right that movement of such a large body of troops can not be easily hidden in such dissolute, open and barren topography.

4. On the Point of What is the Talk about, congress line as that of Ajay Shukla is Childish and rubbish on this issue. India and China so far have signed four agreements between them since 1962. The focus of all four is the maintenance of Peace and Tranquility along the LAC areas. Hence anything that happens around perceived LAC such as troop buildup, construction buildup, air activities alleged intrusion, border trade, yatras , other exchanges, differences and disagreements are all subject to talks and negotiation. If Chinese or Indians have taken troop build-up and construction of infrastructure etc near the LAC, those are supposed to be resolved through talk and established mechanism -

5. The mechanism is Border Personnel Meeting at different levels, hot lines, diplomatic channels and summit-level talks. I am sure Congress loudmouths and their conies like Ajay Shukla do not mean to convey that talks mean Chinese have captured Indian territory. Well, that is the impression they are trying to convey.

6. Galwan -Shyok River Confluence Shoulders if occupied by Chinese troops as claimed by Ajay Shukla is a worrying factor but it remains unverified.

What Actually is the Problem. A military professional in media constitutes a big threat to a host of pseudo-journalists, writers, and academia who consider military affairs as their imagined domain, can manipulate it, spread disinformation, call a Maj Gen as Major Sahab and do not know which side the gun faces. Like good old Mankekar, Malhotra or Nayyar or present-day Shekhar Gupta they wish to remain acknowledged authority on the subject which they actually are not but are in business as weapon sellers. We have so far not produced even a single journalist or academician of the caliber of Ken Follet or Israeli generalist writing on Yom Kippur War or an academician of the caliber of Allen Clark or Liddle Hart. A military professional turned journalist who knows his beans is also a big threat to politicians and bureaucracy including Army bureaucracy who consider him as an impediment in the way of their regime of misinformation. inefficiencies, failures and lapses.

On the other hand, if a military professional turned journalist is indiscreet or prejudiced like Swamy. in his writings on matters military, he can cause a lot of harm to the issue of Military Affairs and National Security.
 

Bhadra

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There is no road after finger 4 to cross over to the Indian side of the border. It's just a ledge where only a single column of soldiers can walk on foot. Once you cross over though, after a while there is an ITBP camp and Indian road (non-metallic). So there is no chance that the APCs drove from finger 8 to finger 4 and then crossed over to the Indian side. You can refer to below video which is a must watch (and it has a picture of finger 4 and the ledge).


I used to have some kind of respect for Shukla (Arjun supporter?), but after this episode, I feel he is nothing but a logical extension of the Congi brigade, hell bent to misinform the general public and malign the government. In any case, what could have happened is that
- The Chinese crossed over on foot to the Indian side beyond finger 4 and were pushed back.
- The scuffle video doing rounds, could be somewhere between finger 4 and finger 8. India claims till finger 8 and China claims till finger 4 and there are frequent scuffles in this overlapping grey area. Regarding the APC not being on a black top road, could be a part of the road is just rocky and not black top etc. Seeing the topography, it is very much possible that a black top road is not possible all the way.
View attachment 49211
- China has built the road till finger 4 during Kargil days when our troops were diverted leaving this area thin. However, it could be that they are trying to disrupt IA patrolling in the grey area.
- There was another incursion in Galwan which again has been pushed back as per satellite imagery.

Maybe both the IA videos were controlled expose to deflate the blatant lies of the likes of Shukla and give some sense of what is happening out there. They did come in very quick succession and went viral, later to be rejected; however, they do show the same areas where the myth of 5k-10k Chinese soldiers is doing the round.
Excellent Video which leaves no doubt in any one's mind ..

Nitin Gokhale has always done a good job on matters military. Coming from the world of print media Journalism, his reportage is incisive and informative. He does not jump and uses his throat to make a point like many TV Media journalists jumping jacks.

Thank you Nitin...
 

Bhadra

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India never had any "actual control" beyond finger 4.
No that position is not true.

Never had means what ?
Shrijapa Complex (Shrijapa I and Shrijapa II were Indian post prior to 1962.
India patrols till finger 8. Chinese also do that.
There is no deployment between Finger 4 and Finger 8.
So what actual control are you talking of.. ??
 

Sanatani

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During a TV discussion amid the 2013 PLA intrusion, a two-star veteran suggested that the area being open we could simply establish ourselves behind them. This alarmed a lawmaker, f
amous for asking support from Pakistan to help his political party get back to power
, saying, “General sahib aap to larai karwa doge” – you will get us into a war situation.

any guesses who this man was?
The one and only Aiyer
 

Rajpal s

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There is no doubt that chinese vhicles can not go forward from fin4 as there is no road but only sharf cliffs so this scuffle of indian and chinese troop must be happend between f4 to f8 .now debate is on the road as it should be black top but i think this is the beggining of summer there is 100% possibility that the upper layer of asphalt got washed during winters due to avalanche or execessive water flow of this road in few places as it is very common in that area so this scuffle might happened in that area of raod where there is no black top remained intact by this pov it is the area between f4 and f8 what do you guys think.
 

Gautam Sarkar

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Something amiss#Xitler under pressure
Or
Theatre Commander on his own trip
Or
Diversion by Anti #XiJingping faction to embarrass
Or
China Bullying India

What ever Scenario

India Firm

China plays it cool(?) despite alarm over India border stand-off


Meanwhile, Chinese Coast Guard “ships, in their pursuit of Japanese fishing boats,[remained] in the territorial waters for three days, and that it was the first time Beijing had claimed Japanese fishing activity as “illegal.””


Surprise! US-Philippines Visiting Forces Agreement stays!


THREAD :

Col @sdinny14 who has actually commanded the area spanning #PangongTso to #GalwanValley, has given a lucid and Crystal clear explanation of the terrain and the situation in the area of so-called "conflict" and single-handedly demolished the whole narrative of "India under massive

 

XR SAM

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Confusion regarding certain facts which needs to be addressed to stop this slugfest between pro government & anti government experts
1. D-atis showing sat image of Chinese base near Finger 4. Is this temporary or permanent base? If permanent it means China has captured the gray area between finger 4 & 8. Until our forces drive out the Chinese forcefully, that area will remain to Chinese.
2. A retired officer said yesterday Chinese never allowed us to patrol till finger 8. But we are hearing till now that we used to patrol till 8. What is the truth?
3. If we really patrolled till 8, are we doing the same now? Or the Chinese has stopped us from Patrol in grey area between 4 & 8? Cause there is Chinese intrusion till 4 and sat image showing Chinese base.This is the main point. If we stopped patroling between grey area, it means Chinese got what they want and they gained territory.
 

Bhadra

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Do You Know
Galwan River

The river is named after Ghulam Rasool Galwan, a Ladakhi explorer from Leh, who first explored the course of the river. In 1899, he was part of a British expedition team that was exploring the areas to the north of the Chang Chenmo valley, when he ran into this previously unknown river valley. Harish Kapadia states that this is one of the rare instances where a major geographical feature is named after a native explorer.

 

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