India China LAC & International Border Discussions

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COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

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The icing on the cake was ITBP/IA soldier damaging the APC headlamps with his stick and one child pony PLA soldier driver reversing the APC and rest coward PLA convoy are far away spectators 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
That video is literally Gold! Killed all the so called pride pakis had for PLAN. Pakis are calling them paper dragon and saying Russian soldiers are far better than Chinese :laugh:
Mar Chinese kha rahe hai aur gaand pakis ki fatti padi hai:pound::pound::pound:
Thats not the worst part bro..


The worst part is a entire convoy of PLA..the mighty superpower not coming to rescue their thrashed soldier who is bleeding from the head.

The IA soldier saving him from his own jawans.

What if We had a convoy or APC..

And what if we had a T72 there.

Whoever thought Chinese would will needs to see this video and understand that a war is nothing without a man.
 

Bhadra

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Thanks for elaborating. That is a fair view. There is always bitterness between babu & general on the ground, one trying harder than other to reserve the ear of decision-making minister. Historically our ministers have had tendency to trust the former than one from the force, I do admit that. Its out of fear from intentions (often misunderstood) of armed forces or bonhomie with babus of some kind. Nevertheless, its a delicate balance GOI should maintain, and present Govt is doing it well IMO.
Thanks for the nuanced view.

It is strange but true that the culture of mistrust between the traditional Tories and Whigs that resulted in a rift between The Vice Roy and C-in-C in India should have been inherited by Congress and the Babus post-independence in letter and spirits. Nothing could have been more starker than the race to Teen Murti Bhavan between Nehru and the new C-in-C. What followed and is still prevalent in the Indian system of governance reflects as if are still a Colony where bureaucracy and military are in competition to seek favours of Govt of India Office.

Why has independent sovereign democratic India not developed modern mechanism as propagated by Samuel Huntington in his world-famous seminal work "Soldier and the State" but are stuck with a colonial model of controlling Military in India via the colonial bureaucracy such as CDA. The kalu Babus in India still wreck their vengeance against the supposedly "Tory" elitist white military officers.

This state of affairs continues in spite of tremendous contribution made by Indian Army in 74 years of national consolidation drive and I dare say that if half of India is part of India it is because of tremendous low cost and affordable efforts of That great institution.

We have thus a behemoth in front which is so vital for our internal cohesion, national consolidation, the insurer of territorial integrity and an engine of economic growth which is mishandled, mistreated, downgraded and has no functional autonomy. That is very harmful for the functioning of democracy where institutional balance is the mantra for smooth functioning. In fact I dare say Congress and bureaucracy never ever understood solving riddles of application and maintenance of military machine in the country or society.

I principally agree on that part. MHA control of that region should've been temporary and transferred to IA long back. And aside to the modus operandi of PLA, that poorly edited speech in parliament did contribute to situation today. Having said that, transfer of LAC control to IA need to be done in subtle manner IMO. And I do not think its going to happen anytime soon either. MHA cannot appear weak, not now; thanks to the political compulsions.
The case in contrary to that. Giving control of a border to police does reflect the confidence of a nation about the stability of that border. India China-LAC indeed is the longest peaceful contested border in the world. MEA can take credit for it remaining peaceful. But it still is contested and managed militarily bu China. ITBP on that border and MHA exercising control is a progressive step but reality of it necessitates that the Army always remains ready to apply force for its management. It is the coordination and control mechanism of this border guarding force that is victim to the selfish narrow and entrenched interest of bureaucracy especially IPS that has proven very counterproductive and dangerous to the border security time and again since pre- 1962 days. The issue of Command and control of place forces during War and piece is becoming an obstacle in Security of territorial integrity of the nation. However bureaucratic interests prevail over national interest. It is imperative that border police forces mesh with defence plans and peacetime activities on border remain under watch of Army. That can only happen if border police forces are under the operational command of the Army.

We have not learnt anything from the shenanigans of Mr Malik of 1962 fame due to which we lost control of area as forward as Haji Langer and had to retreat to Lah..

PLA's misadventures will stop the moment Beijing is put in place by India. Border conflict and these hustles are only one part of the larger dynamics between India-China, there is a world to be won & lost by these two countries in the remainder of this century. Indian Army is a battle hardened & swift force, PLA with its toys cannot risk a duel. Let them spend time worrying what surprise awaits them.
Having secured the required territory in 1962, PLA is very effectively used by China as a tool of diplomatic coercion directly effecting the psychology and morale of the public and the nation as also affecting the political leadership of the country who derive political power from the public. It is direct, visible and effective threat to mainland India adopted at a very low-cost option for great results.
All our neighbours use low-cost options against us and we get rattled. That is not a good sign of National Security management.

Beijing is undoubtedly a bully and must be dealt with in that manner. We must ensure there are minimum chinks in our armour on LAC and the IOR where we meet them.
 

IndiaRising

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How pathetic!.. They have built a base in the grey area & now laid camp right at their perception of LAC!!!

And instead of returning the gesture by pitching camps upto our LAC perception, we are mirroring them from well within undisputed Indian territory, while hoping they'll go back. Whatever the forces do of the ground to stabilise the situation, 56" is deadly afraid of them after all... With a blatant display of spineless weakness like this, they will never withdraw.
The LAC just got permanently pushed back!
Their perception of LAC is till finger 2.....
Camps are not permanent structures especially on such fragile terrain. Calm down.
 

Gandaberunda

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what happens after winter comes? Do you think this Chinese camp at finger 5 will be maintained? Even before that, you will see aggressive patrolling by Indian army to push back cheenis like they were pushed back from finger 4. However, right now we are sticking to diplomacy.
Either Chinese retract just to descalate or else the LAC will turn like all weather deployment of troops like in Siachin.
CCP has built infrastructure and now building Bunkers exactly on LAC and they won't let any damages to their infra. Same on our side we have started digging bunkers albeit not on exact LAC but near to it on our camp/base and well connected road network now. This region will remain hot and may see confrontations often as Chinese strategy is to grab territory through salami slicing and now with leaked video humiliation of PLA already Hans have started Randi rona on weibo!
 

Bleh

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Their perception of LAC is till finger 2.....
Camps are not permanent structures especially on such fragile terrain. Calm down.
I'm talking about that base, not the few tents.

Dominance is achieved by the military leadership, not grunts on the grouds. If they are still having cold-sweats nightmaring about '62, then those posted videos are just to make ourself feel less worse about our total failure.
If govt of India had the balls we'd be paying their behaviour back in kind.
IMG_20200531_081414.jpg

Hard to keep calm seeing them successfully occupying disputed areas with Indian forces helplessly watching!
 
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Gandaberunda

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I'm talking about that base, not the few tents.

Dominance is achieved by the military leadership, not grunts on the grouds. If they are still having cold-sweats at nightmaring about '62, then those videos are just to make ourself feel less worse about the failure.
If govt of India had the balls we'd be paying their behaviour back in kind.
View attachment 48960
Hard to keep calm seeing them successfully occupying disputed areas with Indian forces helplessly watching!
Actually grey area is nothing but the territory we lost in '62... CCP are threatened by Indian infra build up Galwan bridge( precise) and DBO road now they're trying to cease us by moving close to LAC. The grey area which we claim and used to patrol is not being allowed and also CCP trying to claim till finger 2 and advance till it. This has been their strategy and every now and then they claim new perception of LAC. Now we're at defence to hold on to our claim and perception and kick Chinese back to previous status Quo of patroling till finger 8. This is Doklam redux
 

Tridev123

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The Chinese don't seem like going back in the forceable future to their previous positions. Instead of trying to reclaim our positions we can move forward in other areas which fall under their control( which we have not contested) and do an encore. Let them face the same dilemma that we face. It should not be difficult intruding into their territory as the PLA does not physically occupy every inch of their borders. Only patrolling is done.

Let the first bullet be fired by the Chinese. We will vacate their territory only if they retreat from Indian territory.

This is a good time to sell the Brahmos cruise missile to Vietnam to send a strong message that we can undermine their security. Philippines is another candidate for Brahmos sale.

We can also attack their investments in Pakistan, particularly in Gwadar Port. A major attack destroying infrastructure worth millions of dollars in Gwadar would send a signal about Chinese vulnerability. Turning India into an enemy will have costs.

We would like to avoid war but if it comes to that let them fire the first shot. At a minimum we have already put forces at all the ingress points and are staring them in the face.
 

Bleh

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Actually grey area is nothing but the territory we lost in '62... CCP are threatened by Indian infra build up Galwan bridge( precise) and DBO road now they're trying to cease us by moving close to LAC. The grey area which we claim and used to patrol is not being allowed and also CCP trying to claim till finger 2 and advance till it. This has been their strategy and every now and then they claim new perception of LAC. Now we're at defence to hold on to our claim and perception and kick Chinese back to previous status Quo of patroling till finger 8. This is Doklam redux
I know, which is why I said "LAC got permanently pushed back".
This is/was an opportunity to undo their gains in 1962, by reasserting permanent presence there with mirroring of their activities in "grey area". Instead both military & civilian leadership of India are cowering before them giving Chinks a free run all over the place.

Pretty or-inhe-chahiye-AksaiChin moment for us... Modi govt & Manmohan govt showing no difference at all!
The Chinese don't seem like going back in the forceable future to their previous positions. Instead of trying to reclaim our positions we can move forward in other areas which fall under their control( which we have not contested) and do an encore. Let them face the same dilemma that we face. It should not be difficult intruding into their territory as the PLA does not physically occupy every inch of their borders. Only patrolling is done.
YES!!! This.
 
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Gandaberunda

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Thats not the worst part bro..


The worst part is a entire convoy of PLA..the mighty superpower not coming to rescue their thrashed soldier who is bleeding from the head.

The IA soldier saving him from his own jawans.

What if We had a convoy or APC..

And what if we had a T72 there.

Whoever thought Chinese would will needs to see this video and understand that a war is nothing without a man.
I'm not thinking that far what our soldiers had at that moment.... Even a pistol with bullet could have made PLA shit and stand in line...
I always thought what if role reversed in Kashmir jihadis stone peters getting back with same stone pelting on them but today literally the way our soldiers beat PLA convoy APC with stones stick made my day 🤣🤣🤣
Next in Kashmir IA should form a squadron of stone pelter whenever jihadis starts some pelting should unleash the IA stone pelting force :laugh: :laugh::laugh:
 

IndiaRising

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I'm talking about that base, not the few tents.

Dominance is achieved by the military leadership, not grunts on the grouds. If they are still having cold-sweats nightmaring about '62, then those posted videos are just to make ourself feel less worse about our total failure.
If govt of India had the balls we'd be paying their behaviour back in kind.
View attachment 48960
Hard to keep calm seeing them successfully occupying disputed areas with Indian forces helplessly watching!
that base I had a look at in earth explorer. It’s quite huge. They couldn’t possibly have constructed that in a couple of months.
 

IndiaRising

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I know, which is why I said "LAC got permanently pushed back".
This is/was an opportunity to undo their gains in 1962, by reasserting permanent presence there with mirroring of their activities in "grey area". Instead both military & civilian leadership of India are cowering before them giving Chinks a free run all over the place.

Pretty or-inhe-chahiye-AksaiChin moment for us... Modi govt & Manmohan govt showing no difference at all!
YES!!! This.
diplomacy doesn’t work like that. You don’t just start brandishing swords like paki retards. War is always the last option.
 

IndiaRising

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The Chinese don't seem like going back in the forceable future to their previous positions. Instead of trying to reclaim our positions we can move forward in other areas which fall under their control( which we have not contested) and do an encore. Let them face the same dilemma that we face. It should not be difficult intruding into their territory as the PLA does not physically occupy every inch of their borders. Only patrolling is done.

Let the first bullet be fired by the Chinese. We will vacate their territory only if they retreat from Indian territory.

This is a good time to sell the Brahmos cruise missile to Vietnam to send a strong message that we can undermine their security. Philippines is another candidate for Brahmos sale.

We can also attack their investments in Pakistan, particularly in Gwadar Port. A major attack destroying infrastructure worth millions of dollars in Gwadar would send a signal about Chinese vulnerability. Turning India into an enemy will have costs.

We would like to avoid war but if it comes to that let them fire the first shot. At a minimum we have already put forces at all the ingress points and are staring them in the face.
Bhai you don’t think IA will occupy other grey areas if need arises? Chinese know that all this construction will go to waste as it will be impossible to hold on to this area when winter comes.The area is inhospitable and therefore their troops would need to retreat from their areas, like we do. You cannot permanently occupy these areas. It’s impossible.
 

IndiaRising

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The PLA base shown at finger 5 seems to be legit, but looking at how huge it is, it is impossible to construct such a huge base in a couple months time. I’m guessing this is an old PLA base.
 

Bleh

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diplomacy doesn’t work like that. You don’t just start brandishing swords like paki retards. War is always the last option.
Friend, there is diplomacy & there is diplomacy.
Replying incursion with incursion & presenting them the same dilemma we face is what we did in Doklam... Here we are bending over, pulling down our pants, presenting our ass & hope they're not into that stuff.

Next they'll probe into permanent Indian territory, knowing fully well that all India will do is wait & plead. Mark my words.
Bhai you don’t think IA will occupy other grey areas if need arises? Chinese know that all this construction will go to waste as it will be impossible to hold on to this area when winter comes.The area is inhospitable and therefore their troops would need to retreat from their areas, like we do. You cannot permanently occupy these areas. It’s impossible.
Need has arisen... They're taking full control of the disputed area while IA is having 1962 flashbacks & is being stopped from patrolling those parts. THEY HAVE A PERMANENT BASE!!!

How did our "needs to be vacated in winter" theory work in Kargil?.. If we can hold Shiachen in winter, they can hold Pangong.
 

IndiaRising

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1590896013001.png

Btw I had a look at this PLA base on finger 5. Does this look like something that has been readily constructed in the last couple of months, that too without ITBP knowledge which has a base on finger 3?
 

Bhadra

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Indian army learned new things in kashmir..trying that in ladakh :rofl:
Ha Ha Ha ..... Soon they may graduate into ambushing each others .. The tactics effectively use by the Chinese prior to 1962 to kill maximum CRPF troopers..

Whoever imagined we would return back to the natural state and conduct warfare with sticks and stones... The heavy vehicles will be destroyed by stones...
However, it is clear The Indian soldiers were not prepared for this encounter or they would be Armed with long rods ... They are using what ever they can lay their hands on.. Soon we may see lancers and spikes ...

The problem here with Chinese is turning space... They can not turn back their vehicles and scoot...I could see some Chinese running down the slope...

Show these clips to RndeeTV who said one Indian soldier taken prisoner... They will start Rndee rona ....
 

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

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I'm not thinking that far what our soldiers had at that moment.... Even a pistol with bullet could have made PLA shit and stand in line...
I always thought what if role reversed in Kashmir jihadis stone peters getting back with same stone pelting on them but today literally the way our soldiers beat PLA convoy APC with stones stick made my day 🤣🤣🤣
Next in Kashmir IA should form a squadron of stone pelter whenever jihadis starts some pelting should unleash the IA stone pelting force :laugh: :laugh::laugh:
Its amazing the human psyce in a war.

what we call bravery...to forget the consequences.

To engage in an act and be a part of a group makes you feel strong.

The motivation makes you shed blood.

Incredible!
 
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