India-China Comparison on Military Strength "foolhardy" Says Naval Chief.

[captonjohn]

well, you seem to believe that India navy has lots of modern warships ,don't you?

then, can you figure out how many modern warships on earth India navy and PLAN have?

and India navy are full of brand-new world class vessels ,such as one 50-years-old AC and 20-30 years old subs....etc.

badguy, cross questioning is not a good argument for discussion. Chinese navy definitely has warships in large numbers and some of them are highly modern but you can't deny the fact that many large weapon systems are the result of reverse engineering which can be said copycat. By reverse engineering you can create a modern warfare but NOT superior warfare than original one and this difference is enough to change the direction of warfare.

Now regarding numbers than can you please tell us about at what percent navy is modernized in china? more than 50% warships are old and obsolete which can show a huge force but not necessarily powerful. Old and obsolete ships are vulnerable for Indian navy and they'll get sunk easily if they come for blockage. Of course India also has old subs and ships but they are getting upgraded by western technology which is far superior than chinese and even russian technology.

Another factor you should not forget that is tactics and war experience. Indian navy has more war experience and has fought 3 wars with Pak so when Indian Navy will face chinese navy then it will have superiority in its tactics and strategy which is most important to win a war rather than having a huge battle group. Indian navy seems seriously committed for modernization because of threat which china and pak has been posed on us. So IN is getting stronger, technologically superior day by day.

Tell me how many anti-missile system like Barak does your warship have? In indian navy almost all modern ships will be equipped with Barak-II and similar type of anti missile systems. Don't you think this will make much difference?


Remember in WW2 US navy was one third of Japanese navy but still they defeated Japan just because of continuous development, improvement in their tactics, technology and strategy.

 

[natarajan]

Question here is what happens if chines goes to war with India and they use these bases....... then can they be target of our counter attack ???

wow it was our congress (nehru) greatest blunder by donating coco islands

 

[badguy2000]

badguy, cross questioning is not a good argument for discussion. Chinese navy definitely has warships in large numbers and some of them are highly modern but you can't deny the fact that many large weapon systems are the result of reverse engineering which can be said copycat. By reverse engineering you can create a modern warfare but NOT superior warfare than original one and this difference is enough to change the direction of warfare.

guy, both Soviet and USA started their rocket tech from "reverse engineering "germany tech,then improve and surpassed the oringal one.

"RE-modify-invent" is the routine way to any latecomer.

the only difference between USA and China is that USA has crossed the stage of "modity" and CHina is struggling out of the stage of "modify" .... and India still has not start the stage of "RE".

Now regarding numbers than can you please tell us about at what percent navy is modernized in china? more than 50% warships are old and obsolete which can show a huge force but not necessarily powerful. Old and obsolete ships are vulnerable for Indian navy and they'll get sunk easily if they come for blockage. Of course India also has old subs and ships but they are getting upgraded by western technology which is far superior than chinese and even russian technology.

if "50%" of PLAN are obsolete,then perhaps "80%" of Indian navy can be labled as "old and obsolete".

Remember in WW2 US navy was one third of Japanese navy but still they defeated Japan just because of continuous development, improvement in their tactics, technology and strategy.

1. Before Pearl harbour incident happened, Japanese navy was only 60-70% of US navy. Japanese navy just had some edge on one part of US navy,Pacific fleet duing one limited short time (1941-1942).

After 1942, USA navy had much more warships than Japanese navy.

2. USA had much more industry might than Japan. it is the primay cause why US navy could defeated Japan navy.

the steel output of USA was almost 10 times of that of Japan. the output of USA shipyars was also 5 time more than that of Japan. Japan had no chance to win the war at all.

can the output of india shipyard match that of CHina?

 

[Ray]

guy, both Soviet and USA started their rocket tech from "reverse engineering "germany tech,then improve and surpassed the oringal one.

Russia and the US did not do reverse engineering for the rockets.

They used German rocket scientists themselves!

At the end of World War II, competing Russian, British, and US military and scientific crews raced to capture technology and trained personnel from the German rocket program at Peenemünde. Russia and Britain had some success, but the United States benefited the most. The US captured a large number of German rocket scientists (many of whom were members of the Nazi Party, including von Braun) and brought them to the United States as part of Operation Overcast.

In America, the same rockets that were designed to rain down on Britain were used instead by scientists as research vehicles for developing the new technology further. The V-2 evolved into the American Redstone rocket, used in the early space program.

I am sure you have heard of Wernher von Braun.

 

[p2prada]

can the output of india shipyard match that of CHina?

Today....Impossible.
Tomorrow.....100% possible.

We are currently building new shipyards for Civilian as well as military use by private and govt shipping companies.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiat...shipbuilding-alcock-ashdown-shipyard-projects

Mazagaon dock is already being upgraded for a second submarine line over the current scorpene. As you already know L&T is currently building SSNs and SSBNs. Another Private player called Pipavav is currently bidding for new submarine contracts.

Then as you already know we are in the process of building our own indigenous carrier by 2014 and then a second carrier superior to the Varyag and with CATOBAR systems by 2018.

So, we have concrete plans and they are being executed as we speak.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

so, in a word ,it would not be a game of China VS any of its neighbours at all, but a game of CHina vs USA.

the neighbours of CHina are not the players,but the arena of the game.

Individual stray dogs are not dangerous, but when gathered in a pack they are dangerous.

 

[ace009]

guy, both Soviet and USA started their rocket tech from "reverse engineering "germany tech,then improve and surpassed the oringal one.

"RE-modify-invent" is the routine way to any latecomer.

the only difference between USA and China is that USA has crossed the stage of "modity" and CHina is struggling out of the stage of "modify" .... and India still has not start the stage of "RE".





if "50%" of PLAN are obsolete,then perhaps "80%" of Indian navy can be labled as "old and obsolete".







1. Before Pearl harbour incident happened, Japanese navy was only 60-70% of US navy. Japanese navy just had some edge on one part of US navy,Pacific fleet duing one limited short time (1941-1942).

After 1942, USA navy had much more warships than Japanese navy.

2. USA had much more industry might than Japan. it is the primay cause why US navy could defeated Japan navy.

the steel output of USA was almost 10 times of that of Japan. the output of USA shipyars was also 5 time more than that of Japan. Japan had no chance to win the war at all.

can the output of india shipyard match that of CHina?

Well, one can counter quote with Royal Navy having NO preparation for Kreigsmarine submarines (german U-boats) in the beginning of WW-II and developing destroyers, ASDIC (Sonar) and advanced depth charges/ hedgehogs during the war. As a result, the number of british warships lost were 175 while the number of German submarines lost were 753! So, technology and strategy conquered greater numbers there.

 

[debasree]

and India navy are full of brand-new world class vessels ,such as one 50-years-old AC and 20-30 years old subs....etc.

and equally chineese have 30 years old sub and dont even have any aircraft carrier.

 

[badguy2000]

Today....Impossible.
Tomorrow.....100% possible.

We are currently building new shipyards for Civilian as well as military use by private and govt shipping companies.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiat...shipbuilding-alcock-ashdown-shipyard-projects

Mazagaon dock is already being upgraded for a second submarine line over the current scorpene. As you already know L&T is currently building SSNs and SSBNs. Another Private player called Pipavav is currently bidding for new submarine contracts.

Then as you already know we are in the process of building our own indigenous carrier by 2014 and then a second carrier superior to the Varyag and with CATOBAR systems by 2018.

So, we have concrete plans and they are being executed as we speak.

according to the record of Hindustan-style "plan", it is quite doubtful that India-made AC can roll out as planned.

 

[ZOOM]

according to the record of Hindustan-style "plan", it is quite doubtful that India-made AC can roll out as planned.

Yes, and then only China is looking to manufacture the fighter jets like it has been given an ultimatum of it going to be invaded tommorrow.

 

[captonjohn]

according to the record of Hindustan-style "plan", it is quite doubtful that India-made AC can roll out as planned.

Man it's not about developing a toy, it's an aircraft career. Tell me why it took china to develop its aircraft career from VARYAG, ex-russian AC project where you just need to go ahead to develop instead of develop an AC from scratch? Have china developed any AC which is 100% indigenous? It's not about creating more buildings of same configuration but to developing an AC fully compatible with other ACs of that time.

 

[captonjohn]

We should note that when we compare India and China then we shouldn't only just put everything number by number. Both nation has different situations hence we should consider all those things too.

1. India has 1.19 billion population and China has 1.34 billion population which isn't a huge gap between both population.
2. China has area 9,326,410 sq km and India has 2,973,190 sq km area which is almost one third of chinese area. That means more people live in very short area and managing such a huge population is not a joke. You have to fulfill basics needs of the people while developing your industry, military and economy.
3. Most likely war with India and China would be north-east region where no heavy tanks can operate in such intense wether so having a huge force won't make much difference because winner will have better support, better replacement and better techniques couple with better weapons.
4. In such war India is not likely in attacking position but it is china who will play attacking role hence despite having advantage of better infrastructure and fields chinese forces will have to come in to indian territory where indian forces are in advantage position. In such condition indian forces will get better support, replacement, reconnaissance sooner than chinese forces will get.

Also war is not just putting each solider ahead but fight with advanced skills and strategy so when it comes to strategy Indian forces have habit to fight in outrun, outgunned and outnumbered position. There will be more chances that IAF will have edge on PLAAF and it will manage to attack on key bridges, roads, transport mediums, command centers etc. which will paralyze force before it link for major attack. And you can not be sure that IAF won't be able to do that because in IAF india may NOT have numerical superiority but has technological and strategical superiority so think before you talk.

 

[Atul]

in the eventuality of war, IAF has already stationed Su-30MKI in North East, where as the chinese Su-27, Su-30, J-10 & J-11 will be needed to be placed on its eastern sea boarder, (china cannot effort to keep it unguarded with low grade obsolete aircrafts) so what will be Indian Sukhois face, Q-5 (in Close Air Support), JH-7(as Fighter-Bomber), J-8 & J-7 (in Interceptor Role). & what chance have all this jets got if pitched against the MKI...

Since India might not drag the war in the Chinese Territory, so with no fear of SAM, the Chinese jets will have to leave their safe heaven & violate the International boundary with India never to return back, the point of no return for them.....

 

[badguy2000]

in the eventuality of war, IAF has already stationed Su-30MKI in North East, where as the chinese Su-27, Su-30, J-10 & J-11 will be needed to be placed on its eastern sea boarder, (china cannot effort to keep it unguarded with low grade obsolete aircrafts) so what will be Indian Sukhois face, Q-5 (in Close Air Support), JH-7(as Fighter-Bomber), J-8 & J-7 (in Interceptor Role). & what chance have all this jets got if pitched against the MKI...

Since India might not drag the war in the Chinese Territory, so with no fear of SAM, the Chinese jets will have to leave their safe heaven & violate the International boundary with India never to return back, the point of no return for them.....

yes, PLAAF su27/J11/J10/JH7 are fixed in east CHina and can not move to southwest CHina.

And Chinese aircraft plants would stop produce birds,until the war stops.

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

If at all there is a war between INDIA and china, INDIA can and will win and there should not be any use of NUCLEAR MISSILES. If nuclear warheads are used in the war then both INDIA and china will loose the war and will go back to the stone age.

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

Hey J-10 is a junk and a failure. So, there is nothing about J-10. The other day i saw the article about the failure of J-10 in our DFI forum. So, I thik there is nothing so special about the J-10.

 

[Atul]

yes, PLAAF su27/J11/J10/JH7 are fixed in east CHina and can not move to southwest CHina.

And Chinese aircraft plants would stop produce birds,until the war stops.

The chinese aircraft plants will just keep producing birds, so that our MKI's prey on them, & the CCP will have nothing but to pray for the pilots who fly your jets....

 

[ace009]

Oh come on - grow up. no d**k measurements again!

 

[Tshering22]

Oh come on - grow up. no d**k measurements again!

I agree. The thing is, people want a general, professional and unbiased assessment always and with the intention start threads... but it finally ends up becoming a d**k measuring contest. It is prevalent everywhere. Pakistanis do that with us; we do that with you; you do that with the US; Americans presume everything and compare with everybody.

I believe only Russian members aren't so keen in such things and retain their professional analysis.

 

[mrtopcopy]

China has no desire to be involved in a war with India. The China's main foreign strategy is to build a peaceful environment to develop its economics and solve its internal affairs. I do not understand why the Indians care so much about China's military and think so much about the impossible war with China unless India takes the initial to invade into China.