India-China Border conflict

RoaringTigerHiddenDragon

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Yes yes, sorry I recall that guy.
Raghuram rajan fella, former RBI Governor.you just wrote rajan so I thought of most dangerous man named rajan, thus I replied with Chota Rajan in mind.
Very many apologies have been sent by me from my heart. ๐Ÿซ€๐Ÿซ€
I apologize from the depths of my heart. ๐Ÿซ€๐Ÿซ€, all auricles and ventricles included.
Including left auricle , right ventricle, right auricle and left ventricle.
Raghuram Rajan may not be in jail but he can do as much damage as chotta Rajan indirectly. Maybe we called Raghuram as bada rajan.
 

Azaad

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Raghuram Rajan may not be in jail but he can do as much damage as chotta Rajan indirectly. Maybe we called Raghuram as bada rajan.
There was already a criminal by the name Bada Rajan which is how Chotta Rajan got his moniker Chotta. Both were killers , career criminals & hard as nails men . R Rajan is more of a confidence man & as criminal heirachies go the con man is almost at the bottom of the pecking order just above a pimp . R Rajan is one of the few guys who can claim both these honours.
 

Tactical Doge

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this pindi GHQ thing is new info, when did this happen?

Apparently the Chinese unit was from (a) light infantry battalion(s), mostly riflemen and APCs
Not equipped to protect the UN post from an invading force of 1400 rebels with DShK technicals, RPGs and the works
They were ill prepared and There was little they could do to prevent the looting that followed (30 Million USD worth of UN material got looted)

Still there was reports of some Chinese holding their ground and firing back in some isolated pockets
 

ezsasa

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Apparently the Chinese unit was from (a) light infantry battalion(s), mostly riflemen and APCs
Not equipped to protect the UN post from an invading force of 1400 rebels with DShK technicals, RPGs and the works
They were ill prepared and There was little they could do to prevent the looting that followed (30 Million USD worth of UN material got looted)

Still there was reports of some Chinese holding their ground and firing back in some isolated pockets
either this YT fellow is getting the dates wrong, or there were two separate incident in sudan 2015 and 2016. INDBATT II Kumaoni battalion went in later and restored order, which the murican won't talk about.

So I came across THIS 2015 news report, some days ago. A piece that I found V.E.R.Y interesting. The headline is catchy enough โ€“ โ€˜UN peacekeepers refused to help as aid workers were raped in South Sudanโ€™. But it is the second part of the headline that caught my eye โ€“ Chinese troops abandoned their posts rather than engage in fighting and protect civilians.

Interesting, I thought. Did a little more digging around on the www and came across another nugget of V.E.R.Y interesting information. Will come to that in the latter part of this blog post. But first let me share some thoughts on the piece above.

Firstly let us talk about the facts listed out in the news report above:-

  • The Chinese peacekeepers were entrusted with the responsibility of a one civilian protection site in Juba.
  • In the month of July 2015, fierce attacks were mounted by one of the rebel groups in Sudan, leading to โ€˜tens of thousandsโ€™ of civilians seeking safety from successive bouts of fighting, at that site.
  • However, the Chinese peacekeepers stayed on in their bases rather than protect civilians. Heck, even the Ethiopian troops had done far better, helping evacuate wounded civilians and returning fire when needed.
  • On the last day of the fighting, about 80 to 100 government soldiers attacked a compound in Juba where they raped and gang-raped at least five international aid workers and physically or sexually assaulted at least a dozen others.
  • All this happened when there was a UN Base manned by Chinese peacekeepers only a few hundred metres from the compound. However despite dozens of appeals for help from the besieged aid workers and personal visits from at least one who escaped from the compound, the Chinese peacekeepers simply REFUSED to leave the safety of their base.
  • During four days of fighting between the rival forces, artillery rounds and gunfire hit two UN bases, killing two Chinese peacekeepers. And what did the vaunted PLA troopers do? They not only failed to return fire, but in fact, RAN AWAY FROM THEIR POST. To add insult to injury, in their haste to save their skins, they even left behind their weapons and ammo โ€“ something a professional soldier would not even dream of doing. EVER.
So here is what I make of the entire issue โ€“ The PLA soldier didnโ€™t move out of the safety of his compound, favouring his personal safety over his responsibility to his fellow human beings. To some extent (and I say this โ€˜coz I am not entirely aware of the rules of engagement they were bound by), this might be explained by the rules of engagement that MIGHT have prevented them from interfering in the factional fighting in the area. MIGHT have, โ€˜coz I am not sure it actually prevented them. More on that in the latter part of this blog. However, even the refusal to fire back in self defence, more so when two of their comrades had been fatally wounded, reeks of cowardice. And then the biggest ignominy a professional soldier can heap upon himself โ€“ they fcuking abandoned their posts and ran away. Not only that, they left behind their weapons and ammo.

An entire post cowering behind the apparent safety of their compound walls instead of discharging their duty when humanity is being raped and murdered all around. When the compound too becomes unsafe, they emulate their Pakistani friendsโ€™ favourite battlefield tactic โ€“ they run away! And this is the bunch of (fill in the blank) with which the PRC threatens the battle hardened Indian Army today!

Now coming to another interesting nugget I discovered when searching for more info on this incident. I came across THIS report. It was the Indian Army that saved their sorry backsides. The report itself doesnโ€™t mention the abandonment of posts by the PLA peacekeepers. Very โ€˜convenientโ€™ omission, I say.

However, as per the report, INDBATT II, comprising of the men of 7th Battalion The Kumaon Regiment, who were held in reserve, were asked to take charge and restore the situation, which they did with extreme professionalism and ruthlessness. Hereโ€™s a typically modest way the news report chose to describe their actions โ€“ โ€˜It was learnt that troops also secured the perimeter which was smashed by the IDPs and ensured the armed militiamen were weeded out.โ€™ Yes, they โ€˜securedโ€™ the perimeter and ensured the armed militiamen were โ€˜weeded outโ€™. Typical Indian mediaโ€™s way of underselling themselves. Or perhaps, something that they are so used to from the Indian Army, that they take it as a matter of fait accompli โ€“ Send in Indian troops, job will be done.

Btw, it was the same militiamen who had scared the hell out of the famed PLA troops and routed them that the Kumaonis calmly โ€˜weeded outโ€™. Rest of the report makes for an interesting read too.

So here it is. An Army that fought its last war in 1979, an army that has โ€˜wonโ€™ against an outsider only once in 5000 years of its nationโ€™s history, in 1962, was exposed for what it was โ€“ shiny toys and scared brats afraid to wield them when time comes. (Regarding the โ€˜war experienceโ€™ of the PLA, that is a blog post which will come in another few weeks, btw)

Sabre rattling in front of apparently weaker neighbours is fine, but god save you if the โ€˜weakerโ€™ neighbour draws out his own sword!

(Oh, btw, the title of the photograph of PLA Peacekeepers posted on top of this blog, in The Guardian report is โ€“ โ€˜Peacekeeping troops in South Sudan โ€˜underperformedโ€™ during violence in July.โ€™)

โ€™nuff said!


 

vidhwanshak

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Apparently the Chinese unit was from (a) light infantry battalion(s), mostly riflemen and APCs
Not equipped to protect the UN post from an invading force of 1400 rebels with DShK technicals, RPGs and the works
They were ill prepared and There was little they could do to prevent the looting that followed (30 Million USD worth of UN material got looted)

Still there was reports of some Chinese holding their ground and firing back in some isolated pockets
He says the PLA had "121 officers and 579 soldiers " that's about 1 officer for 5 soldiers ?? Is this credible?
were they organised the same way in Galwan?
 

Tactical Doge

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either this YT fellow is getting the dates wrong, or there were two separate incident in sudan 2015 and 2016. INDBATT II Kumaoni battalion went in later and restored order, which the murican won't talk about.
He starts of with the recent one, drawing conclusions from the earlier one (the bit he mentioned about radio patrols, no Medevacs and poor leadership)
He says the PLA had "121 officers and 579 soldiers " that's about 1 officer for 5 soldiers ?? Is this credible?
were they organised the same way in Galwan?
I'm not sure, maybe officers serve a different purpose rather than on the ground,
Indian army is also an officer heavy force(not in th ratio of 1:5 tho)
 

vidhwanshak

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First, I must commend StratNews global. These guys bring new info and videos every now and then. Their level of reporting is much better than any news channel in India.

But, their videos are more like a documentry, and they don't ask questions. It's like they are on a tour and the DGMO Assam Rifles is their tour guide.

Secondly, I really appreciate the locals who live there. It's 2023 and they don't have electricity. I am pretty sure Army Units posted there also don't have access to electricity as well. If we can send rover to moon, then so can we send electicity to the areas of Vijyanagar. It's moral responsibility of the administration to do the needful.
 

Sayman Ame

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There was already a criminal by the name Bada Rajan which is how Chotta Rajan got his moniker Chotta. Both were killers , career criminals & hard as nails men . R Rajan is more of a confidence man & as criminal heirachies go the con man is almost at the bottom of the pecking order just above a pimp . R Rajan is one of the few guys who can claim both these honours.
Are you sure "chota Rajan" is called so because there exists a "bada Rajan" ....or......is it perhaps something more.....sinister.......something much bigger (or smaller if you think about it)???

Screenshot 2023-05-27 at 12-08-08 chhota rajan height - Google Search.png
 

Cheran

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White Paper for what?

Depicting our failures and legacy issues?
Depicting which area's we control etc.. as on that date. So yes it will paint a picture of loss in cases where a particular area is "supposed to be ours" but not in actual control.

It will help in fighting internally politically motivated misinformation.
 

mist_consecutive

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White Paper for what?

Depicting our failures and legacy issues?
Yes, actually. The public should be made aware of the truth. It was way too late in my life I came to know that most of the J&K I saw in geography maps since childhood, in fact, was under the control of Pakistan. Same for Aksai Hind.

Heck, I think it was pretty recent I got to know a chunk of Arunachal Pradesh we see on the map (upper Subanshiri) was captured by China, but we show it as it is under our control. I believe even more than 50% of DFI defense enthusiasts are not aware of this fact because it has been slyly brushed under the carpet to hide the failures of Nehru.

This false sense of security is not helpful to anyone, being ignorant is not a good thing. Instead, educate children about the history of these losses and motivate them to get this land under our rightful ownership back.
 

Suryavanshi

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Yes, actually. The public should be made aware of the truth. It was way too late in my life I came to know that most of the J&K I saw in geography maps since childhood, in fact, was under the control of Pakistan. Same for Aksai Hind.

Heck, I think it was pretty recent I got to know a chunk of Arunachal Pradesh we see on the map (upper Subanshiri) was captured by China, but we show it as it is under our control. I believe even more than 50% of DFI defense enthusiasts are not aware of this fact because it has been slyly brushed under the carpet to hide the failures of Nehru.

This false sense of security is not helpful to anyone, being ignorant is not a good thing. Instead, educate children about the history of these losses and motivate them to get this land under our rightful ownership back.
1685267409716.png


This one.
 

Jimih

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It will help in fighting internally politically motivated misinformation.
This false sense of security is not helpful to anyone, being ignorant is not a good thing. Instead, educate children about the history of these losses and motivate them to get this land under our rightful ownership back.
And it will put more pressure on the Govt of that day to reclaim those ceded parts in the process.

Govts gets changed in India every 5 years and along with that Institutional Memory too.

Any miscalculation and the electoral propsects of the Govt of that day is finished.

BJP led GoI is not that different. At the end of the day they are also a typical Indian political party trying to win elections.
 

DumbPilot

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And it will put more pressure on the Govt of that day to reclaim those ceded parts in the process.

Govts gets changed in India every 5 years and along with that Institutional Memory too.

Any miscalculation and the electoral propsects of the Govt of that day is finished.

BJP led GoI is not that different. At the end of the day they are also a typical Indian political party trying to win elections.
We should just give them up to China and Pakistan then. Sounds like too much work ๐Ÿ˜€
 

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