India-China Border conflict

[SUPERPOWER]

Spare-Scare could hit the Su-30MKI fleet soon – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

Is that what China is waiting for..!!!!!

 

[mokoman]

Spare-Scare could hit the Su-30MKI fleet soon – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

Is that what China is waiting for..!!!!!

plenty of infra work on their side , airbases , runways , the strategic g216 road

maybe they will do try another salami slicing after its all completed.

This year has been pretty uneventful regarding the Indo-China conflict, some would say it has fizzled out for the good.

Summer is already here, yet no troop buildup, no infrastructure development (apart from that Pangong Tso bridge), no major military exercises, no incursions, no fistfights, nothing.

didnt i tell u , short term - only side that will take action is us .

and u know what means , nothinggggggggggggg will ever happen !!!!!!!!!

 

[ezsasa]

This year has been pretty uneventful regarding the Indo-China conflict, some would say it has fizzled out for the good.

Summer is already here, yet no troop buildup, no infrastructure development (apart from that Pangong Tso bridge), no major military exercises, no incursions, no fistfights, nothing.

if we count Ukraine war as an extension of chini foreign policy, CCP is still on schedule.

 

[mist_consecutive]

plenty of infra work on their side , airbases , runways , the strategic g216 road

maybe they will do try another salami slicing after its all completed.

In that sense (in general infrastructure), a lot going on our side as well. For example, the metalled double-lane road from Pangong Tso to Hot Springs, repair and upgrade of nearly all NE airbases, including new HAS and AD cover.

But in general, no hostile actions yet.

didnt i tell u , short term - only side that will take action is us .

and u know what means , nothinggggggggggggg will ever happen !!!!!!!!!

Yep, that means nothing will happen.

if we count Ukraine war as an extension of chini foreign policy, CCP is still on schedule.

Ukraine is unlikely to be a CCP mastermind game. More of a Russian ambition gone wrong. CCP will benefit from it indirectly, but unlikely to be their original plan.

 

[ezsasa]

Ukraine is unlikely to be a CCP mastermind game. More of a Russian ambition gone wrong. CCP will benefit from it indirectly, but unlikely to be their original plan.

The way i am seeing this, even in the old days of war, one would do probing attacks to observe adversary's response.
since 2017 if we count the number of "attacks" that emanated from chinese sphere of influence :

2017 - doklam
2019 - chinese virus
2020 - galwan
2022 - ukraine

each one of them challenged the status quo and forced the adversaries to react. not saying this is the truth, rather saying this is a paradigm that can be used to do assessments.

 

[mokoman]

What is the truth about Chinese occupying about 1,000 sq. km of Indian territory in their 2020 forced occupation. I thought they withdrew from Pangong Lake and Galwan Valley area. There is nothing worthwhile to occupy in Hotspring or Depsang area where there is eyeball to eyeball confrontation. In Hotspring area we occupy a dominating position over their road leading to Galwan valley. That neutralizes their dominance. In Depsang, nobody occupies nothing except prevent each other from patrolling etc. Hence how does this 100,000 sq.km idea is born or is it born out stupid minds of a politician.

it is technically true . we lost a large chunk in depsang - supposed to be about 900 sqkm .

dont know how its 900 sqkm , but IMHO u can say chinese have taken over ~450 sqkm "buffer zone" .


in galwan valley - entire buffer zone is inside our LAC . chinese played their role and permanently shifted their claim line backward by 1.5 km and modi ji played his role and said "koi nahi gussa"

 

[mist_consecutive]

it is technically true . we lost a large chunk in depsang - supposed to be about 900 sqkm .

dont know how its 900 sqkm , but IMHO u can say chinese have taken over ~450 sqkm "buffer zone" .


in galwan valley - entire buffer zone is inside our LAC . chinese played their role and permanently shifted their claim line backward by 1.5 km and modi ji played his role and said "koi nahi gussa"

It is technically not true, it is based on our perception.

If you tow that line (territory claimed by both, but controlled by none, and later unilaterally taken over by one side) is a loss of territory, then you should also agree that we lost more than half of Kashmir (Gilgit Baltistan + and PoK) in the 1947-48 war with Pakistan?

 

[mokoman]

It is technically not true, it is based on our perception.

If you tow that line (territory claimed by both, but controlled by none, and later unilaterally taken over by one side) is a loss of territory, then you should also agree that we lost more than half of Kashmir (Gilgit Baltistan + and PoK) in the 1947-48 war with Pakistan?

not sure that comparison works , depsang doesnt have a population , and we used to patrol pp13 , pp10 until 2016 - 2017 , now we cant .

the idea that this is a legacy issue is simply a white lie . before 2020 they didnt have *any* structures in that area , now they have , they will soon build roads .

we did lose couple 100 sqkms to chinese - i dont see how u can say otherwise.

 

[mist_consecutive]

not sure that comparison works , depsang doesnt have a population , and we used to patrol pp13 , pp10 until 2016 - 2017 , now we cant .

And Chinese patrols used to reach till Murgo. Both sides used to patrol this weakly-held land.

the idea that this is a legacy issue is simply a white lie . before 2020 they didnt have *any* structures in that area , now they have , they will soon build roads .

I just checked images of Sep 2019, China already has well-built roads and a military base with helipads in that disputed area. Only the Y-junc border outpost is made during 2020.

Query Features | OpenStreetMap

OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use under an open license.

www.openstreetmap.org

Go through this to get an idea. Or you can try looking at Sentinel images.

we did lose couple 100 sqkms to chinese - i dont see how u can say otherwise.

The correct thing to say is, that we failed to control the unclaimed area whereas the Chinese did by making their presence strong.

 

[India Super Power]

And Chinese patrols used to reach till Murgo. Both sides used to patrol this weakly-held land.



I just checked images of Sep 2019, China already has well-built roads and a military base with helipads in that disputed area. Only the Y-junc border outpost is made during 2020.

Query Features | OpenStreetMap

OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use under an open license.

www.openstreetmap.org

Go through this to get an idea. Or you can try looking at Sentinel images.



The correct thing to say is, that we failed to control the unclaimed area whereas the Chinese did by making their presence strong.

So bro
Totally how much area we lost (sqkm) according to u I mean estimate leaving the buffer zones which were not occupied by both before 2020

 

[mokoman]

And Chinese patrols used to reach till Murgo. Both sides used to patrol this weakly-held land.



I just checked images of Sep 2019, China already has well-built roads and a military base with helipads in that disputed area. Only the Y-junc border outpost is made during 2020.

Query Features | OpenStreetMap

OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use under an open license.

www.openstreetmap.org

Go through this to get an idea. Or you can try looking at Sentinel images.



The correct thing to say is, that we failed to control the unclaimed area whereas the Chinese did by making their presence strong.

hmm not sure which road u mean , they build 1 road connecting pp11 -> pp13 etc back in 2009-2010 itself.
LOL such nice people , building road for us to patrol . i think that is actual LAC .but gov is claiming LAC is even beyond that

where is the helipad base ? give coords.

yea , no use crying now , but chinese 'crossed the line' when they put up that y junc post in 2020 .
fuckers need to be kicked out of there

please - but no excuses here .

 

[mist_consecutive]

hmm not sure which road u mean , they build 1 road connecting pp11 -> pp13 etc back in 2009-2010 itself.
LOL such nice people , building road for us to patrol . i think that is actual LAC .but gov is claiming LAC is even beyond that

where is the helipad base ? give coords.

yea , no use crying now , but chinese 'crossed the line' when they put up that y junc post in 2020 .
fuckers need to be kicked out of there

please - but no excuses here .

You have been misguided, my dear disciple ! Anti-national propaganda has poisoned your brain. Rise above the propaganda and realize the facts !

This is the most accurate representation of patrol points I can find. Mind it, the whole purple line (our patrolling route) is on foot, not even a mud road. This whole circuit is 90-100 km, plus the fact that it is extremely high altitude and cold. Poor ITBP soldiers!

Light-blue is the DSDBO road, and the Y-junction is marked in a red dot.

Now, have a look at the Chinese roads as of Nov 2019.

Dotted red line - Kuccha/mud road of Chinese.
Solid red line - Paved road of Chinese.
Orange square - Major Chinese bases, but there are probably more because Sentinel image quality is shit.

Observations -

• Chinese already had rudimentary roads till Y-junction before the 2020 standoff, whereas we still don't.
• Chinese had a strong presence in this area with paved roads and military bases. While our soldiers will require a week to reach, let's say PP12 or PP13, the Chinese will reach within hours !

This area was so weakly held by us, it is pitiful. Patrolling on mules once a month when the Chinese are driving trucks and armored vehicles in the same area is not "under our control".

So whose fault is this ? If we want to be macho and conduct a military operation here, where is the scope ? We can hardly control the Y-junction, the area beyond it is impossible.

Do you want to tell me Army/GoI chickened out ? Or is the criminal negligence and inactivity of previous governments that compounded to this disaster in 2020?

And did we lose 10^100 sq. km of area as Congress, Panag, and Shukla wants us to believe ? We never had this area under our control, and that is the truth.

 

[mokoman]

You have been misguided, my dear disciple ! Anti-national propaganda has poisoned your brain. Rise above the propaganda and realize the facts !

This is the most accurate representation of patrol points I can find. Mind it, the whole purple line (our patrolling route) is on foot, not even a mud road. This whole circuit is 90-100 km, plus the fact that it is extremely high altitude and cold. Poor ITBP soldiers!

Light-blue is the DSDBO road, and the Y-junction is marked in a red dot.

Now, have a look at the Chinese roads as of Nov 2019.

Dotted red line - Kuccha/mud road of Chinese.
Solid red line - Paved road of Chinese.
Orange square - Major Chinese bases, but there are probably more because Sentinel image quality is shit.

Observations -

• Chinese already had rudimentary roads till Y-junction before the 2020 standoff, whereas we still don't.
• Chinese had a strong presence in this area with paved roads and military bases. While our soldiers will require a week to reach, let's say PP12 or PP13, the Chinese will reach within hours !

This area was so weakly held by us, it is pitiful. Patrolling on mules once a month when the Chinese are driving trucks and armored vehicles in the same area is not "under our control".

So whose fault is this ? If we want to be macho and conduct a military operation here, where is the scope ? We can hardly control the Y-junction, the area beyond it is impossible.

Do you want to tell me Army/GoI chickened out ? Or is the criminal negligence and inactivity of previous governments that compounded to this disaster in 2020?

And did we lose 10^100 sq. km of area as Congress, Panag, and Shukla wants us to believe ? We never had this area under our control, and that is the truth.

This is the most accurate representation of patrol points I can find. Mind it, the whole purple line (our patrolling route) is on foot, not even a mud road. This whole circuit is 90-100 km, plus the fact that it is extremely high altitude and cold. Poor ITBP soldiers!

we dont use mules , we use quad bikes like these , these are pics taken by chinese from depsang .

and yes we used to patrol all the patrol points atleast uptill 2017. a major general said so in interview.
the chinese only blocked us occasionally in trucks ( there is a pic of their truck on zoom earth) comming via a dirt road to yjunc.


Do you want to tell me Army/GoI chickened out ? Or is the criminal negligence and inactivity of previous governments that compounded to this disaster in 2020?

And did we lose 10^100 sq. km of area as Congress, Panag, and Shukla wants us to believe ?

We never had this area under our control, and that is the truth.

ur just spelling out "chinese salami slicing strategy" . they take over land weakly patrolled out by us ,starting by friendly patrolling , blocking our patrols with banner drills , building dirt road , pitching tents- placing troops , then building a proper outpost blocking us completely , and finally tarred road.

we did lose land in depsang to salami slicing by chinese over 1 decade . it started in 2009-2013 during UPA era , and under Modi ji full lost , entire section inside yellow ring (about 300 sqkm ) is now gone .


we are on track to lose more in AP , chinese have already crossed over in 1 valley and is now blocking us .

when we lose entire valleys there , u can say "no yaar we lost it waay before , years ago - we didnt have any roads or posts here ,seee this is old news "

 

[The Shrike]

Don't worry folks, no more pushing and shoving, we now have the "strategic patience" and are negotiating from a position of strength

LAC situation: more communication at ground level, no pushing or physical contact, says Lt. Gen. Dwivedi

India now has strategic patience and we are negotiating from a position of strength, he says

www.thehindu.com

 

[mokoman]

Don't worry folks, no more pushing and shoving, we now have the "strategic patience" and are negotiating from a position of strength

LAC situation: more communication at ground level, no pushing or physical contact, says Lt. Gen. Dwivedi

India now has strategic patience and we are negotiating from a position of strength, he says

www.thehindu.com

"India now had “strategic patience” and was negotiating from a position of strength."

"stopped the system of body push and ensured that there was no physical contact"

"depsang is a legacy issue" , "demchok is a legacy issue"

10 years from now , when our people get beaten up again , GOI will be crying about how chinese broke agreements , broke peace and tranquality at border .

 

[cereal killer]

This is the most accurate representation of patrol points I can find. Mind it, the whole purple line (our patrolling route) is on foot, not even a mud road. This whole circuit is 90-100 km, plus the fact that it is extremely high altitude and cold. Poor ITBP soldiers!

we dont use mules , we use quad bikes like these , these are pics taken by chinese from depsang .

and yes we used to patrol all the patrol points atleast uptill 2017. a major general said so in interview.
the chinese only blocked us occasionally in trucks ( there is a pic of their truck on zoom earth) comming via a dirt road to yjunc.


Do you want to tell me Army/GoI chickened out ? Or is the criminal negligence and inactivity of previous governments that compounded to this disaster in 2020?

And did we lose 10^100 sq. km of area as Congress, Panag, and Shukla wants us to believe ?

We never had this area under our control, and that is the truth.

ur just spelling out "chinese salami slicing strategy" . they take over land weakly patrolled out by us ,starting by friendly patrolling , blocking our patrols with banner drills , building dirt road , pitching tents- placing troops , then building a proper outpost blocking us completely , and finally tarred road.

we did lose land in depsang to salami slicing by chinese over 1 decade . it started in 2009-2013 during UPA era , and under Modi ji full lost , entire section inside yellow ring (about 300 sqkm ) is now gone .


we are on track to lose more in AP , chinese have already crossed over in 1 valley and is now blocking us .

when we lose entire valleys there , u can say "no yaar we lost it waay before , years ago - we didnt have any roads or posts here ,seee this is old news "

View attachment 154435

Eye opening stuff bro... Is GOI under impression in war time these Chinese gains won't matter? I think doing this same stuff in Arunachal would definately mean a red line. Chinese are poking just enough to check our response while building up for future. I still maintain we had a better chance to give a bloody nose back in June 2020. 4-5 years down the line Chinese will be prepared for literally anything.

 

[mokoman]

Eye opening stuff bro... Is GOI under impression in war time these Chinese gains won't matter? I think doing this same stuff in Arunachal would definately mean a red line. Chinese are poking just enough to check our response while building up for future. I still maintain we had a better chance to give a bloody nose back in June 2020. 4-5 years down the line Chinese will be prepared for literally anything.

they are pushing forward in some places in AP , its concerning because we have no roads , no forward posts

chinese on other hand have now build posts right on LAC , and trying to connect it to main roads behind on their land .

seen them post pics on their social media ,

once they connect , they can bring in trucks , their armoured vehicles . then from there they will push forward across LAC .

why isnt GOI doing anything ? - no idea . at some places we are building roads to block them - others , its like nothing is happening .

 

[Kumaoni]

they are pushing forward in some places in AP , its concerning because we have no roads , no forward posts

chinese on other hand have now build posts right on LAC , and trying to connect it to main roads behind on their land .

seen them post pics on their social media ,

once they connect , they can bring in trucks , their armoured vehicles . then from there they will push forward across LAC .

why isnt GOI doing anything ? - no idea . at some places we are building roads to block them - others , its like nothing is happening .

You think BJP was any greater than UPA in this regard? No. The gandhian ideology is what dominates the BJP.

 

[mokoman]

You think BJP was any greater than UPA in this regard? No. The gandhian ideology is what dominates the BJP.

dont know about ideology , looks to me like gov isnt interested in fucking with China beyond a certain point .

-------------------

this is one of the problem areas in AP

Query Features | OpenStreetMap

OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use under an open license.

www.openstreetmap.org

the red square is chinese post close to LAC on mountain ridge , there is a road coming upto it from chinese side.

chinese now walk down from that post across "our" LAC and block our patrols .

once they connect the road to LAC post , they will start building down , and then into the valley.

we have no forward posts here . if things go as now , we will end up losing large portion of that valley , maybe 100 sqkm or more .

u can see the valley and locations in map below

yellow line is lac ,

"zhabu la" is where the Chinese border post is now

the position marked 'vid location" is where they are blocking us now .

red line at bottom is most likely their target

in a few years , we will be hearing of another clash/standoff from here .

 

[gajapati]

China has ordered government-backed companies and agencies in the country to replace foreign brand computers with Chinese . These computers, made by Chinese companies will run on locally developed softwares. , it will see replacement of about 50 million computers at the level of central government alone . This sweep is likely to involve phones, semiconductors and more.

Replace foreign PCs in two years, China tells companies

China has ordered government-backed companies and agencies in the country to replace foreign brand computers with Chinese ones within two years, Bloomberg reported. This is one of China's most aggressive push towards eliminating dependence on western technology. Bloomberg quoted sources to say...

www.wionews.com

They seems to be talking lesson from Ukraine war . But they are doing it because they have the capacity .