India-China 2021 Border conflict

Suhaldev

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Any more info regarding this?

China tests new space capability with hypersonic missile

China tests new space capability with hypersonic missile
Launch in August of nuclear-capable rocket that circled the globe took US intelligence by surprise

China tested a nuclear-capable hypersonic missile in August that circled the globe before speeding towards its target, demonstrating an advanced space capability that caught US intelligence by surprise.

Five people familiar with the test said the Chinese military launched a rocket that carried a hypersonic glide vehicle which flew through low-orbit space before cruising down towards its target.

The missile missed its target by about two-dozen miles, according to three people briefed on the intelligence. But two said the test showed that China had made astounding progress on hypersonic weapons and was far more advanced than US officials realised.

The test has raised new questions about why the US often underestimated China’s military modernisation.

“We have no idea how they did this,” said a fourth person.

The US, Russia and China are all developing hypersonic weapons, including glide vehicles that are launched into space on a rocket but orbit the earth under their own momentum. They fly at five times the speed of sound, slower than a ballistic missile. But they do not follow the fixed parabolic trajectory of a ballistic missile and are manoeuvrable, making them harder to track.

Taylor Fravel, an expert on Chinese nuclear weapons policy who was unaware of the test, said a hypersonic glide vehicle armed with a nuclear warhead could help China “negate” US missile defence systems which are designed to destroy incoming ballistic missiles.

“Hypersonic glide vehicles . . . fly at lower trajectories and can manoeuvre in flight, which makes them hard to track and destroy,” said Fravel, a professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

Fravel added that it would be “destabilising” if China fully developed and deployed such a weapon, but he cautioned that a test did not necessarily mean that Beijing would deploy the capability.

Mounting concern about China’s nuclear capabilities comes as Beijing continues to build up its conventional military forces and engages in increasingly assertive military activity near Taiwan.

Tensions between the US and China have risen as the Biden administration has taken a tough tack on Beijing, which has accused Washington of being overly hostile.

US military officials in recent months have warned about China’s growing nuclear capabilities, particularly after the release of satellite imagery that showed it was building more than 200 intercontinental missile silos. China is not bound by any arms-control deals and has been unwilling to engage the US in talks about its nuclear arsenal and policy.

Last month, Frank Kendall, US air force secretary, hinted that Beijing was developing a new weapon. He said China had made huge advances, including the “potential for global strikes . . . from space”. He declined to provide details, but suggested that China was developing something akin to the “Fractional Orbital Bombardment System” that the USSR deployed for part of the Cold War, before abandoning it.

“If you use that kind of an approach, you don’t have to use a traditional ICBM trajectory. It’s a way to avoid defences and missile warning systems,” said Kendall.

In August, General Glen VanHerck, head of North American Aerospace Defense Command, told a conference that China had “recently demonstrated very advanced hypersonic glide vehicle capabilities”. He warned that the Chinese capability would “provide significant challenges to my Norad capability to provide threat warning and attack assessment”.

Two of the people familiar with the Chinese test said the weapon could, in theory, fly over the South Pole. That would pose a big challenge for the US military because its missiles defence systems are focused on the northern polar route.

The revelation comes as the Biden administration undertakes the Nuclear Posture Review, an analysis of policy and capabilities mandated by Congress that has pitted arms-control advocates against those who believe the US must do more to modernise its nuclear arsenal because of China.

The Pentagon did not comment on the report but expressed concern about China. “We have made clear our concerns about the military capabilities China continues to pursue, capabilities that only increase tensions in the region and beyond,” said John Kirby, spokesperson. “That is one reason why we hold China as our number one pacing challenge.”

The Chinese embassy declined to comment on the test, but Liu Pengyu, spokesperson, said China always pursued a military policy that was “defensive in nature” and its military development did not target any country.

“We don’t have a global strategy and plans of military operations like the US does. And we are not at all interested in having an arms race with other countries,” Liu said. “In contrast, the US has in recent years been fabricating excuses like ‘the China threat’ to justify its arms expansion and development of hypersonic weapons. This has directly intensified arms race in this category and severely undermined global strategic stability.”

One Asian national security official said the Chinese military conducted the test in August. China generally announces the launch of Long March rockets — the type used to launch the hypersonic glide vehicle into orbit — but it conspicuously concealed the August launch.

The security official, and another Chinese security expert close to the People’s Liberation Army, said the weapon was being developed by the China Academy of Aerospace Aerodynamics. CAAA is a research institute under China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation, the main state-owned firm that makes missile systems and rockets for China’s space programme. Both sources said the hypersonic glide vehicle was launched on a Long March rocket, which is used for the space programme.

The China Academy of Launch Vehicle Technology, which oversees launches, on July 19 said on an official social media account that it had launched a Long March 2C rocket, which it added was the 77th launch of that rocket. On August 24, it announced that it had conducted a 79th flight. But there was no announcement of a 78th launch, which sparked speculation among observers of its space programme about a secret launch. CAAA did not respond to requests for comment.

Follow Demetri Sevastopulo and Kathrin Hille on Twitter


 
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mokoman

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chinese propaganda is impressive .

every branch of military / gov seems to have separate account + large funding

releasing about 1 video every 2 days. each in 1080p , very well produced.

they also love to frame their pics very carefully . sending subtle messages only people who track these will get.

like this one below , taken from F4 peak , its actually just a guy on patrol . but the image gives the impression that they have control of their claim lines upto F4


008dd23ugy1gvfjpanl12j61jm0v9n4x02.jpg



:dude: but i still dont understand y we dont see our side do this ,for ex 2 IA/ITBP guys with indian flag on highest peak overlooking F4.

:yawn: oh well.
 

backburner

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isn’t CCP invoking nationalist sentiments with in its population against every major country except Russia? How does this factor in?
in weibo almost all the chinese hate russia , they want vladivostok which was captured by the tzar in 1860, ccp chamchas did try to stoke up chinese sentiments towards vladivostok ,but looks like winnie does not want to anger putin as they are dependent on russian oil and gas.

https://tfipost.com/2020/07/this-is...russias-vladivostok-as-part-of-its-territory/
 

shiphone

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FalconZero

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chinese propaganda is impressive .

every branch of military / gov seems to have separate account + large funding

releasing about 1 video every 2 days. each in 1080p , very well produced.

they also love to frame their pics very carefully . sending subtle messages only people who track these will get.

like this one below , taken from F4 peak , its actually just a guy on patrol . but the image gives the impression that they have control of their claim lines upto F4


View attachment 114953


:dude: but i still dont understand y we dont see our side do this ,for ex 2 IA/ITBP guys with indian flag on highest peak overlooking F4.

:yawn: oh well.
Kek are you forgetting that it's an authoritarian government and like all of them, they heavily rely on the propaganda for their public. Most of democracies don't need to do that or care about it. Maybe bat eaters like those or like NK videos, maybe koreans like it but world finds them amusing.
 

sorcerer

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I understand this is not really relevant on this thread..
but
I think Sri lanka is playing India and china vis a vis the lankan proximity to our shore as an advantage.
This crap has to stop.
lanka: Sri Lanka seeks $500 million loan from India for fuel purchase - Times of India

Last time India gave credits...lanka after getting the money went to china and did business with them pawning even their underwear to china.

In lankas terms..its obvious for small nations to use their geographical advantage to their maximum benefit..
but there will come a time when even india wont be able to save the lankan sore arse from china.
 

sorcerer

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Where China’s next war could start

Beijing is also said to be working on cloud seeding programs that could see rains pushed further north away from India.

All this has occurred while India has seen its rainfall become more erratic.

Admiral Barrie likened it to an international and far more dangerous version of the ongoing Murray-Darling dispute where South Australia complains that Queensland and New South Wales have taken more than their fair share of water upstream.

“We know now that China is trying to steal the water from everyone else.


 

sorcerer

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X POST


India exploring regulation to test Chinese smartphones for snooping, data security concerns - ET Telecom

New Delhi: India is exploring a regulation that may mandate teardown or in-depth testing of handsets to ensure that the devices and installed apps are not snooping on the citizens of the country, people familiar with the matter told ET.

The move, seen as a retaliation for the continued Chinese aggression at the India-China border, could be in line with what the government has put in place for telecom equipment, they said.

The government is compiling a list of trusted sources and trusted companies for telecom equipment and networking products to check alleged cyber snooping. The move is believed to be aimed at keeping Chinese players such as Huawei and ZTE out of critical areas of telecom networks, said experts.

While the regulation, if it materialises, will cover the entire industry, Chinese brands will be in focus, said one of the persons involved in initial consultations with the government.


 

The Shrike

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Very nice video specially to all those who were asking why we are not releasing counter videos.
I don’t think this was insightful, he is just repeating some simplistic, overused talking points. The whole banning celebrity culture, e-learning, video games etc was very much intentional steps by Xi and the CCP, of course it would involve some short term pain but they obviously think it was worth it. Also whatever other internal situations they are having I don’t think they have really ramped up the propaganda against India internally that it provides enough of a diversion for a population as large as China's. Just a few articles in the media and a few leaked videos will not cut it. I mean look at our own situation, while a few of us are melting down with every, 99% of the Indians they are more bothered about Bollywood, cricket, local politics and issues etc.
 

srevster

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The time has come for India to define what it wants to be. There needs to be a long term vision, which clearly defines what India’s role in the world is and this narrative has to be pushed with vigor. India also needs to find its identity and show self confidence in it.

the lack of clarity and vision is allowing others to create a path and role for India in the larger world picture.

my suggestion is that India needs to define a new world where people have a respect for traditionalism, family values and also embrace rational thinking, scientific pursuits and cultivate inspiration in its population. Without a vision, or path, we are a lost people who can be divided, suppressed, manipulated and scorned.

my 2 cents
 

flanker99

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Dont think the chinks will do a full scale invasion of india rather they would use pakistan to start a war with us and do some major salami slicing on our territory while we are busy meanwhile they might invade taiwan and force North Korea to start some skirmish with SK and threaten japan and to an extent even US with nukes(Tho I believe they will stir major domestic trouble in US as well),don't think they gave those new icbms,CMs and hgv's to nokor for nothing
 

Daniel750

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Hello everyone. Long time lurker here (I think since 2013-2014). Lost the old account creds. This thread seemed to have stayed quite civil and objective till now. So I figured I will put some two cents. I followed China and related news for a long time, but am no way is an expert. Let me try to objectively rationalise the "why's" of CCP's actions in the recent years. If I look like regurgitating known information, I apologise. But I hope that someone will find the information useful.



As you can see, there has been a growing trend of unfavourable opinion about China in the recent decades. Much of it has spiked after Xi came into power. This is not a coincidence. And unlike what Communists might want you to believe, not completely a result of western propaganda. Such views are only reflections of China's increasing hostility and belligerence towards other countries. In 2012, during the Beijing olympics, China came off as an ally. However, the world no longer sees China as such. I think it is important to realise that this is not only about India, even Russia, China's closest friend, has a relation that should be described as "cold acquaintances". But if you ask, "why" China went ahead and chose to willingly disrupt it's reputation, you might have some curious answers. Let me try to argue for some of them.

1. Housing Crisis : You may have heard of Evergrande. However, this had been a long time in coming. Take a look at this video from 2 years ago heralding the coming onslaught (and one from 8 years ago if you are really curious). If you watch the full video, you will understand what a vicious cycle the Chinese housing market is in. In a nutshell : Center takes 60% of tax but local government is responsible for 80% of the cost of infrastructure development. Local governments are forbade from taking loans, so the only way they can raise money is by selling land to developers through state run vessels. So they are caught in an endless cycle of selling land for homes/flats/office spaces in inferior construction. This results in videos like this. Do note that this is not a China only thing. But this is so severe in China, they have a special name for it: "Tofu Dreg" construction. People also buy homes as a result of the "Hakuo" (may have butchered the name) system of government. Recall that a Chinese may rent in a city, but he is not a resident of that city unless he owns a home in that city. This also means that he does not get access to the well funded city public schools, or cannot use the city's amenities. This is one reason there is so many "left at village with grandparents children" in China. However, the moment they buy a studio apartment in Shenzhen, they can bring their kids in. Thus housing prices in some cities might be CRAZY high. For instance, price/sq ft in Shenzhen is $8000, but average monthly salary is $500. Moreover, government regulates strict downpayments and mortgage rates. So, extended families pool together money to buy a home. But another reason that the housing market was still exploding (and in no-name ghost cities) might be the next.


2. Demographics : China is ageing, and really really fast. Right now, the median age in China just crossed 38.4. For reference, in India, it is close to 25. Fertility rate in China is 1.7. For reference, in Russia, it is 1.5 and they consider it a national emergency. However, on the flip side, language barrier and opaque system of governance means that China is extremely xenophobic as a country. There is almost no immigration in comparison to US or EU. But this does not only mean that China is losing it's demographic dividend. It also means that more and more,
a. A shrinking working class needs to supply the social security/pensions of the retirees.
b. The number of "consumers" (people earning fat checks and spending huge sums on money on luxury goods like iPhones and vacations. Typically ages 40-60) is also shrinking. This means trillions of dollars of burden on the government. This means the GDP growth is also shrinking. This also means that due to millions of forced abortions (and due to cultural male child preferences), between 2020-2060, there would be about 66 single women for every 100 single men. We can see this effect today. And this comes back to the housing crisis. Men in China buy homes as status symbol (also, the stock market is unpredictable and houses are the only alternative investments) and fierce competition for a bride. Recall, that China may be rich, but an average Chinese is still very poor compared to an average citizen in many developed nations. Also recall, unless they force people to have babies at gunpoint is no single thing that CPC can do to magically fix this. Due to their unique Hakuo system detailed above, people cannot afford to work in the city and have more children. Also, child care is expensive (both financially and time-wise), and there is no way a working couple can support raising too many children. However, one might wonder why there is not much news of protests in face of such looming crises. This brings me to my next point.















3. Internal Security : China spends an exorbitant amount in internal security. In fact, it spends more on internal security than it does on external security. Communists have tried to convince me that such spending is necessary in face of "Western Propaganda Warfare" but I remain skeptic. China's own propaganda apparatus is immense. I do not know if you remember this, (and all references pertaining to this seems to be absent from internet) but shortly after the Doklam stand-off, I started seeing a google ad (sometimes even in DFI) with a picture depicting the Chinese version of the border and how that is the real border. Clicking on the ad will bring you to a single web page written in Chinese and no other links. This was worrying to me at that time. It showed me just how far ahead China was at disinformation that India/Bhutan. The gap has only widened since. Now CPC techniques are more sophisticated. And they have utilised highly sophisticated deep learning facial recognition algorithms and massive surveillance to surgically remove dissent, quash rebellion, and purge defectors/whistleblowers. I hate to be refer one source twice, but this video has summarised many key ideas like no other. We all know about Tiennaman square massacre, but an average Chinese only has faint alludes to some "July 4th Incident". (To be fair, most countries do this. I did not recall reading about Sanjoy Gandhi's forced sterilisation campaigns in history books, while I read about Jillianwalagabh. But the difference is how thorough CPC is about this. I grew up and came to know about Sanjoy's misadventures. But most Chinese, even now living abroad does not know about it or its scale) In face of insurmountable obstacles described above, CPC must "act tough" in front of Chinese citizens. Because they realise that the legitimacy of CPC is on very fragile grounds of endless development and GDP growths. The moment this growth stops, all fingers will point the the CPC. This is a reason for their increasingly "wolf warrior" tactics. China hates the world -> They hate China back -> Stoke nationalism -> China hates the world. And the cycle goes on.

Thus, it comes back to how I started. This might explain why in recent decades, negative perceptions about China are skyrocketing abroad. Someone with better understanding about the topic can explain to me if I am wrong, but my opinion is CPC knows the house of cards they are building. Hence, in face of weakness, China must appear, strong, decisive, and independent. They must stoke hate against other nations, create false enemies, and fuel nationalism. Keep the citizens barking "outwards" so that the "dog" does not bite the "owner".

I hope at least some of you found this informative. I have tried to be objective and unbiased, and keep my opinions away. This took about 90 minutes to write, so I hope you find at least some use of it. At least, the next time when you fight with a CPC sympathizer, my hope is you are armed with a bit more perspective about them. After all, as Sun Tzu says, "Know your enemy, and victory would be yours". I also note that I had to be EXCEEDINGLY brief in my writing due to time/scope constraints. I might be interested in explaining further if I ever get a better opportunity.
 

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