India-China 2021 Border conflict

Vinash

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Are you living under a rock or did you time travel directly from 1961 ? All these things, China is already doing it.
Read my posts before replying.

I myself am saying that China are doing it. They are doing it because they know we can't do the same to them.
 

Hari Sud

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There should be peace talks with China after they withdrew from PP15 a month back. To get started the two other friction points Despang and Demchoke be demilitarized. Neither India nor China occupy these places for the last 30 years. The Patrols, occasionally run into each other. It is easy to solve this issue. It should be made non issue.

Then peace talks be held to demilitarized Ladakh and Tibet.

Let us see that Modi and Xi succeed in this proposal. Lowering tension here will go a long way to offer a solution for US/NATO and Russia combat in Europe. Otherwise Ukraine war will go on for years creating an unstable situation in Europe very much like pre world war 1 situation.
 

another_armchair

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Collude with USA & Turkey to send ISIS militants via porous borders of LAC to help Uyghurs ?
That will bracket us with useful idiot Pakistan. We surely don't want to appear as Sams hoe in Asia given our size and the influence we can wield in private.

Said it after Galwan betrayal - We are on our own because our goals, worldview doesn't fit in any camp - West/Russian/Chinese/Liberal/Whatever.

The sooner we accept it, the lesser we cope.

We follow an independent foreign policy and tbh, Chinese influence is waning with every passing day. The peak was somewhere in the past decade.

What needs to be addressed on priority is the ridiculous trade imbalance with China.
 

mokoman

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Stay silent and build our own capabilities first.

Start confronting China openly AFTER we have our capabilities sorted.



How? Can you explain how can we actually hurt China?

1) Are we capable of taking back Aksai Chin?

2) Are we capable of liberating Tibet?

3) Are we capable of waging war on the ground near their population centres?




I know they are doing it and they'll continue to do it.

What's the equivalent capability of ours? Can we fund Uyghurs? Can we help Taiwan?




0% chance of this happening.
i get the gist of what ur saying , but if we are so meek/incapable that we cant even make a procedural vote against the Chinese - then god(s) help us .

what we need against the Chinese is some retarded aukut - stand our ground - like in pangong tso .

only thing these chutias understand is "action" , no big talks or speech will change their ways.
 

mist_consecutive

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Stay silent and build our own capabilities first.

Start confronting China opnely AFTER we have our capabilities sorted.
Plausible, but won't work. You hit the iron when it is glowing hot. We had the golden chance to initiate insurgency in Tibet after 1962 if we played our cards right, and now the new generation has forgotten about Dalai Lama and started accepting the CCP govt.

And building our capabilities, yes, when will that be ? What will be the benchmark ? Theoretically, we will never cross China in GDP or military in the next 50 years or so, unless something drastic happens.

For a reference, see Pakistan. They have nothing, their economy is in tatters, yet they keep on needling us. We teach them a lesson, but they come back again after licking their wounds.

How? Can you explain how can we actually hurt China?

1) Are we capable of taking back Aksai Chin?

2) Are we capable of liberating Tibet?

3) Are we capable of waging war on the ground near their population centres?
Taking back Aksai Chin is a useless ambition devoid of any real utility. The fire of the Tibetian rebellion is slowly being suffocated by China as we stand and look at the atrocities like helpless pedestrians. The only population center we have near our border is Lhasa, which again, is not China, but Tibet.

Why do you want to militarily flex against China? In brute power, China will always win. Terrorism, insurgency, and separatism are the new age warfare.

I know they are doing it and they'll continue to do it.

What's the equivalent capability of ours? Can we fund Uyghurs? Can we help Taiwan?
Yes, and yes.

0% chance of this happening.
It is already happening, but not through India, but in Afghanistan and other -stans bordering China. Turkey is behind it. We don't hear about it because, well it is China.
Remember the plane crash which nosedived straight on a clear-weather day and we heard nothing about it after ?

 

Tiwariji

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If we are not convinced (and make it known that we hate China), how are we going to take the next steps ? USA was ready to turn QUAD into a military alliance, but we did not commit and kept obsequiously talking with China while they are rallying their Army on the LAC.
What ll master give us if we make it known ? More fund for paki f16 , calling pok ajad kashmir or visa denial for indians while chinese business people get it done in 2/3 days . I dont think india's interest lies in creating a NATO military type alliance in our region . What did Europe get out of Nato .. what Pakistan gets by becoming whore of west and china just to counter India .. Our focus has to be economic development and not to become Ukraine . China indeed is a problem . LAC tension was evidence for that . But Dont be certain there is absolute support from the other side . we have to work it out as long as its possible to do so .
 

mist_consecutive

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@Vinash

You underestimate our capabilities. For a starter, being a pain in the ass for China will be enough. Currently, Myanmar is a boiling pot with multiple powers including us overlooking it to take a share. Insurgency/SF operations into Myanmar to hit Chinese interests and targets are a good option.
We are already using NDS and BLA to hurt Chinese investments in Balochistan and Pakistan. Last year, there was a sticky bomb attack on a bus carrying Chinese nationals which resulted in a lot of Chinese casualties.

The direct military offensive is the last and the least favored option because it puts you in the direct spotlight and the resources wasted are tremendous. A retarded mullah willing to blow himself up costs 20k PKR (not even INR). An INSAS rifle wielded by our soldiers cost 100k INR.
 

Vinash

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i get the gist of what ur saying , but if we are so meek/incapable that we cant even make a procedural vote against the Chinese - then god(s) help us .

what we need against the Chinese is some retarded aukut - stand our ground - like in pangong tso .
I used to be very angry and mouth off as well but lately I'm trying to think calmly.

India has 2 choices

1) Mouth Off without capability

2) Stay calm and build your capability and then mouth off.
 

Vinash

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@Vinash

You underestimate our capabilities. For a starter, being a pain in the ass for China will be enough. Currently, Myanmar is a boiling pot with multiple powers including us overlooking it to take a share. Insurgency/SF operations into Myanmar to hit Chinese interests and targets are a good option.
We are already using NDS and BLA to hurt Chinese investments in Balochistan and Pakistan. Last year, there was a sticky bomb attack on a bus carrying Chinese nationals which resulted in a lot of Chinese casualties.

The direct military offensive is the last and the least favored option because it puts you in the direct spotlight and the resources wasted are tremendous. A retarded mullah willing to blow himself up costs 20k PKR (not even INR). An INSAS rifle wielded by our soldiers cost 100k INR.
I'm not underestimating our capabilities when it comes to border conflicts or our military.

I'm underestimating our capability to cause chaos inside China the way China can inside India.
 

notaname

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i get the gist of what ur saying , but if we are so meek/incapable that we cant even make a procedural vote against the Chinese - then god(s) help us .

what we need against the Chinese is some retarded aukut - stand our ground - like in pangong tso .

only thing these chutias understand is "action" , no big talks or speech will change their ways.
@Vinash

You underestimate our capabilities. For a starter, being a pain in the ass for China will be enough. Currently, Myanmar is a boiling pot with multiple powers including us overlooking it to take a share. Insurgency/SF operations into Myanmar to hit Chinese interests and targets are a good option.
We are already using NDS and BLA to hurt Chinese investments in Balochistan and Pakistan. Last year, there was a sticky bomb attack on a bus carrying Chinese nationals which resulted in a lot of Chinese casualties.

The direct military offensive is the last and the least favored option because it puts you in the direct spotlight and the resources wasted are tremendous. A retarded mullah willing to blow himself up costs 20k PKR (not even INR). An INSAS rifle wielded by our soldiers cost 100k INR.
I used to be very angry and mouth off as well but lately I'm trying to think calmly.

India has 2 choices

1) Mouth Off without capability

2) Stay calm and build your capability and then mouth off.
We should keep out of Religion based things as they are constantly being used against us and west use them more on us then Chinese, for Chinese we should use Taiwan and Tibet more because they can be termed as territorial disputes, with that we have possibility of keeping Chinese out of our Religion (especially Hindu's) as west is always there to get us Hindu's, so we should trade carefully on religion based things and MEA is not really known to handle religious things perfectly.

We should press for Tibet more, especially on Dalai Lama that will be enough to rile up the Chinese.
 

Vinash

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We should keep out of Religion based things as they are constantly being used against us and west use them more on us then Chinese, for Chinese we should use Taiwan and Tibet more because they can be termed as territorial disputes, with that we have possibility of keeping Chinese out of our Religion (especially Hindus) as west is always there to get us Hindu's, so we should tread carefully on religion based and MEA is not really known to handle religious things perfectly.
Agreed on this!

If we mess with Uyghur issue, we have more to lose as China's capability to use Islamists in India is better than India's capability to use Islamists in Xinjiang. Entire ME has no problem lecturing India about Muslims while ME doesn't utter a word to China.

India should stick to Taiwan, Tibet issues regarding China.
 

mist_consecutive

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What ll master give us if we make it known ? More fund for paki f16 , calling pok ajad kashmir or visa denial for indians while chinese business people get it done in 2/3 days . I dont think india's interest lies in creating a NATO military type alliance in our region . What did Europe get out of Nato .. what Pakistan gets by becoming whore of west and china just to counter India .. Our focus has to be economic development and not to become Ukraine . China indeed is a problem . LAC tension was evidence for that . But Dont be certain there is absolute support from the other side . we have to work it out as long as its possible to do so .
People salty about the USA repairing Pakistani F-16s is hilarious. Why do you expect them to kiss our feet when we ignored their requests and interests ? We are buying oil surplus from Russia, and choosing not to condemn Russian invasion ?
If we have decided to align with our own foreign policy of neutrality without siding with any world order, why is America is the villain here when they are just merely repairing the F-16s of their long-tested friend servant Pakistan ?

And the visa issue is completely misinterpreted news. The visa queue is because we Indians are going to US in literal droves, so much so that the US visa system is overwhelmed. You should check the number of student visa granted by US to India vs. to China for 2021.
 

another_armchair

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I'm not underestimating our capabilities when it comes to border conflicts or our military.

I'm underestimating our capability to cause chaos inside China the way China can inside India.
Han's make up about 92% of China's population. They are a brute majority and teamed with CCP, they can stamp out dissent without much fuss.

Examples - Xinjiang, Tibet, Tiananmen Square followed by possibly hundreds of lesser known agitations against development, land acquisition in the hinterland.

We tried to stir chaos during the 2008 Beijing Olympics. Resulted in over a 100 dead Tibetans and a brutal crackdown on Tibetans, prolonged detention, torture you name it. It was a useless sacrifice with no participating country boycotting/pulling out of Olympics.

Glad Indian hawks showed some heart and decided not to throw the Tibetan's under the bus again just to grab headlines.
 

Vinash

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Han's make up about 92% of China's population. They are a brute majority and teamed with CCP, they will stamp out dissent without much fuss.

Examples - Xinjiang, Tibet, Tiananmen Square followed by possibly hundreds of lesser known agitations against development, land acquisition in the hinterland.

We tried to stir chaos during the 2008 Beijing Olympics. Resulted in over a 100 dead Tibetans and a brutal crackdown on Tibetans, prolonged detention, torture you name it. It was a useless sacrifice with no participating country boycotting/pulling out of Olympics.

Glad Indian hawks showed some heart and decided not to throw the Tibetan's under the bus just to grab headlines.
My point exactly!

If Indian state can ruthlessly deal with Islamists inside India, I'd be in favor of poking China on Uyghur issue.

As long as we don't have domestic capability to control Islamists and external capability to create chaos inside China, we shouldn't be poking the Uyghur issue.
 

another_armchair

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My point exactly!

If Indian state can ruthlessly deal with Islamists inside India, I'd be in favor of poking China on Uyghur issue.

As long as we don't have domestic capability to control Islamists and external capability to create chaos inside China, we shouldn't be poking the Uyghur issue.
What took 1400 years to take root cannot be pulled out over night in a multicultural, federal country like ours.

Getting rid of Article 370, Babri resolution are nothing short of miracles given how long they festered.
 

Tiwariji

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People salty about the USA repairing Pakistani F-16s is hilarious. Why do you expect them to kiss our feet when we ignored their requests and interests ? We are buying oil surplus from Russia, and choosing not to condemn Russian invasion ?
Well they are buying billions of dollars of chinese goods . Using chinese apps , importing uranium from russia etc why do you want us to not get the oil . Do you wish indian economy to suffer just to assure master that we are on their side ? Did we send military help to Russia ? We have lots of manufacturing capability of Russian equipment , we cld have send them given they is deeper military relation with Russia which includes nuclear element .

And the visa issue is completely misinterpreted news. The visa queue is because we Indians are going to US in literal droves, so much so that the US visa system is overwhelmed. You should check the number of student visa granted by US to India vs. to China for 2021.
Read this article

 

another_armchair

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Well they are buying billions of dollars of chinese goods . Using chinese apps , importing uranium from russia etc why do you want us to not get the oil . Do you wish indian economy to suffer just to assure master that we are on their side ? Did we send military help to Russia ? We have lots of manufacturing capability of Russian equipment , we cld have send them given they is deeper military relation with Russia which includes nuclear element .


And the visa issue is completely misinterpreted news. The visa queue is because we Indians are going to US in literal droves, so much so that the US visa system is overwhelmed. You should check the number of student visa granted by US to India vs. to China for 2021.
Read this article

US dependent visas became dear for NRIs residing in Asia at the start of Covid. This was around Feb/March 2020.

Cousin holds a B1 and lives in an Asian country... the MNC consulting company wanted to move him to the US so he applied for dependent visa for wife and kids but the US embassy simply closed down before their turn came. Did not refund the interview fees either.

Don't take this planted article at face value.

Another cousin's boss(Chinese citizen) residing in Singapore is a very well connected man but he hasn't got an Indian visa till date... lol. .. has been trying since 2017. Probably redflagged for some reason... he expresses his frustration on company sponsored beer binges.
 

mokoman

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Well they are buying billions of dollars of chinese goods . Using chinese apps , importing uranium from russia etc why do you want us to not get the oil . Do you wish indian economy to suffer just to assure master that we are on their side ? Did we send military help to Russia ? We have lots of manufacturing capability of Russian equipment , we cld have send them given they is deeper military relation with Russia which includes nuclear element .



Read this article

we dont need to become US slaves . we can use them against the Chinese .

there is deterrence value in having US as an allay against the Chinese.

see whats happening to Russian army in Ukraine , if there is possibility of US extending similar help to us in war with China , then Chinese will be more hesitant to start shit against us.
 

mist_consecutive

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Well they are buying billions of dollars of chinese goods . Using chinese apps , importing uranium from russia etc why do you want us to not get the oil . Do you wish indian economy to suffer just to assure master that we are on their side ? Did we send military help to Russia ? We have lots of manufacturing capability of Russian equipment , we cld have send them given they is deeper military relation with Russia which includes nuclear element .
I don't "want" anything. I am of the opinion that whatever we are doing (buying Russian oil, not condemning Russia), is correct. However, I also believe we should have the strength to bear the consequences, not cry like many people are doing.

Read this article

Hitjob article. The article states even US external minister is not aware of the "silent" sanctions, but the newspaper is ? A lot of my friends went to the US last year, and many plan to this year as well. If the US is hurting anything by blocking visas to Indians, is their own economy because their tech sector is literally carried by Indians. People disaffected by visa restrictions are just choosing to switch to greener pastures, like in UK, or Netherlands, and even back to India comfortably.
 

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