India-China 2021 Border conflict

Butter Chicken

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One thing I can't understand from China is why are they making/renovating so much road ? At first, it seems that it is an effort to create infrastructure for border domination, and one will credit it as Chinese superiority in infrastructure development.
However, if you keep on observing, a few peculiar things keep on emerging -
  • They are making 4-line highways where the only traffic they will get is nomads grazing their sheep once a month. I mean, if it is just for military movement, 2-lane will suffice by long-margin.
  • They are renovating roads (re-pitching, making them broader), which are just 2 years old, and are in perfect condition. It is as if they are building just for the sake of building.
  • Most ridiculous, they are creating dual highways, creating another one just beside one existing road, like just 40-50 meters away from the existing one, going parallel. Like, why would you need a dual, 4-lane highway in Aksai Chin for ? This is beyond just infrastructure development and just purely ridiculous.
I strongly think this is not just infrastructure development, but construction companies doing scams (read, sanctioning unnecessary projects from govt., and in return, bribing the Army officials who helped to sanction them).
This is prevalent in China.
This is what they do.
Check small Chinese cities on Google Earth. Even small towns can grid system with 8-10 lane roads

Chinese growth is field by real estate and infrastructure. What is the need of HSR to Tibet?
 

Tridev123

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Totally agree. Intelligence failure on a massive scale. Now we have a PLA ship snooping on us from SL when the country is literally on dole from us. :facepalm:

Even with unfavorable developments, the Sinhalese are Buddhists and should have been within the Indic sphere of influence. Whatever happened to the Indian soft power - Buddha, yoga, lauda lassun?!?
Yes. The truth is that if wishes were horses the extreme right wing Sinhala chauvinists would like to expel all ethnic Tamils in Sri Lanka to Tamil Nadu state.
They believe that all Tamils are usurpers and forcefully settled in Sri Lanka by the British.

If one were to stretch the logic then even the Sinhalese and their forefathers must have emigrated from other far away lands centuries ago and settled down in the islands that constitute Sri Lanka. What is the origin of the Sinhalese people.

So considering the Tamils as aliens is short sighted.

The Tamils have been there for more than a century and have contributed immensely to Sri Lanka economically. Even 50 years ago the main foreign exchange earnings used to come from the export of tea. And no one should forget that it was the hard labour of the Tamils in the East of the country working in the numerous tea plantations which produced the tea that Sri Lanka is famous for.

The Tamils have contributed massively in other economic areas as well and fuelled Sri Lanka's economic growth.

I agree with the view that the Buddhist history of Sri Lanka should have brought India(the birth place of the Buddha) and Sri Lanka closer. Probably we failed in cultural diplomacy. But again one should not rule out the ubiquitous hand of the Americans in trying to drive an wedge between India and its neighbours. Not trying to always paint Uncle Sam as the villain but unfortunately past US Governments had followed an anti Indian agenda. In the belief that India was a member of the Soviet block and should be opposed.

The Americans guided by the same ideology turned Bangladesh against India. The assassination of Banga Bandhu Sheik Mujibur Rehman was instigated by external forces. Many blame the CIA. The rabidly anti Indian Bangladesh President Hussain Mohammed Ershad was an puppet of the Americans.

Anyway much water has flowed under the bridge and Washington and New Delhi are now seeing many of their interests converge as far as Asia is concerned.
 

Tridev123

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There have been many reports of Chinese air incursions along the common border with India. Probably trying to test our air defence network. Or even needling us. Forcing us to mobilise fighters in response. A type of harassment already practiced by the Chinese against Taiwan and Japan.

Now what should be our response. If it is an serious war like transgression then it should be retaliated to with adequate force. Probably even shooting down their planes if needed.

But if the objective is mainly to harass us, then one form of counter move by India could be.
Fly cheap high altitude drones which will have large radar cross section( RCS) deep into Chinese air space. These drones should fly high enough to ensure that they cannot be easily shot down by Chinese ground troops using their assault rifles or machine guns. These will show up prominently on their radars and elicit an response either in the form of fighters or SAM's being activated. Let them shoot it down. No problem. But the drone cost should be less than the cost of the SAM that is fired to bring them down. Using fighter aircraft to shoot down the drones will also be expensive.

Basically the idea is that for shooting down an 100 dollar drone, the Chinese should spend an 200 dollars SAM or an 500 dollars sortie by an fighter aircraft. Bleed them financially. This is only an extremely simple example. In actual SAM's are very expensive. Certainly not 200 dollars.

This strategy has no value in real warfare. It is only meant to harass the PLA. It is to say that India can also easily violate Chinese air space. Point the middle finger at them.
 

mist_consecutive

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There have been many reports of Chinese air incursions along the common border with India. Probably trying to test our air defence network. Or even needling us. Forcing us to mobilise fighters in response. A type of harassment already practiced by the Chinese against Taiwan and Japan.

Now what should be our response. If it is an serious war like transgression then it should be retaliated to with adequate force. Probably even shooting down their planes if needed.

But if the objective is mainly to harass us, then one form of counter move by India could be.
Fly cheap high altitude drones which will have large radar cross section( RCS) deep into Chinese air space. These drones should fly high enough to ensure that they cannot be easily shot down by Chinese ground troops using their assault rifles or machine guns. These will show up prominently on their radars and elicit an response either in the form of fighters or SAM's being activated. Let them shoot it down. No problem. But the drone cost should be less than the cost of the SAM that is fired to bring them down. Using fighter aircraft to shoot down the drones will also be expensive.

Basically the idea is that for shooting down an 100 dollar drone, the Chinese should spend an 200 dollars SAM or an 500 dollars sortie by an fighter aircraft. Bleed them financially. This is only an extremely simple example. In actual SAM's are very expensive. Certainly not 200 dollars.

This strategy has no value in real warfare. It is only meant to harass the PLA. It is to say that India can also easily violate Chinese air space. Point the middle finger at them.
This is actually a good strategy. But what is stopping the Chinese from playing the same trick on us ?
 

Tridev123

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This is actually a good strategy. But what is stopping the Chinese from playing the same trick on us ?
Bro, they are already violating our airspace in shallow depths using both drones and manned fighters.
We would be only responding to their actions.
Let them replicate our strategy.
No problem. Both India and China will look equal.
I am sure that they would hate to be seen as an equal to India.
 

mist_consecutive

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Bro, they are already violating our airspace in shallow depths using both drones and manned fighters.
We would be only responding to their actions.
Let them replicate our strategy.
No problem. Both India and China will look equal.
I am sure that they would hate to be seen as an equal to India.
The airspace violation thing is being blown out of proportion. They only violated it once, and that too did not cross over, to our side. Thereafter, we increased our sorties and the Chinese were at the receiving end for 2 weeks. Now everything cooled down.
 

RoaringTigerHiddenDragon

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Because in the real world vishwaguru also known as vishwanapunsak strategy does not work.

Modi thinks that by hugging the shit out of gora saheb and throwing around the hard earned money of taxpayers he can get the job done when in reality all he has done is become the clown of this world.

Just think for a second.

A bankrupt country right at our doorstep just showed us the middle finger and all we can do is give diplomatic statements.

At this point why even blame Sri Lanka hijade ko hijada hi bolenge na aur kya.
Modi‘s hands are tied. There is power asymmetry between India and China. And the Russia-india-China love triangle has become a real foreign policy headache. The reality is china and Russia act decisively while the US, India, the EU etc just sit around doling out diplomatic statements. The US is now way behind China in influencing Africa and South America. China - shady debt or not - has built massive, useful infrastructure in these places. The US has done nothing. Even India has done more than the US in real projects around the world.
Another issue is China is in Asia, right next door. If things were ideal, Russia-India-China would be the correct alliance - an alliance that would dominate the world. So, the west is real happy that India and China are not getting along. But we know that the US is an opportunistic Karan joker, and has only self-interests in mind 100% of the time.
So, it is not easy for anyone. The world’s foreign policy issues have become a 100 times more complex with the rise of China as there are now 2 real global power centers. And countries are re-aligning to each of these centers.
The US’ past behavior is the main issue for all countries. They cannot be trusted - so most countries don’t want to take on China with USA’s support. And there is no other powerful, reliable country yet to counter China and are also reliable. India is that country but the problem is gdp growth rate is not picking up as fast as expected. This is why I say the world is looking to India to counter China but because of our stupid politics, we are unable to become big and powerful quickly. To this day, India has not been able to make top NRIs scientists return to India to work on top projects. China has been doing this for 20+ years now. And several Chinese professors and researchers in top US universities have returned to China for good.Unless we too do such things, we are not going to catch up with the CCP maniacs.
 

Hari Sud

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Modi‘s hands are tied. There is power asymmetry between India and China. And the Russia-india-China love triangle has become a real foreign policy headache. The reality is china and Russia act decisively while the US, India, the EU etc just sit around doling out diplomatic statements. The US is now way behind China in influencing Africa and South America. China - shady debt or not - has built massive, useful infrastructure in these places. The US has done nothing. Even India has done more than the US in real projects around the world.
Another issue is China is in Asia, right next door. If things were ideal, Russia-India-China would be the correct alliance - an alliance that would dominate the world. So, the west is real happy that India and China are not getting along. But we know that the US is an opportunistic Karan joker, and has only self-interests in mind 100% of the time.
So, it is not easy for anyone. The world’s foreign policy issues have become a 100 times more complex with the rise of China as there are now 2 real global power centers. And countries are re-aligning to each of these centers.
The US’ past behavior is the main issue for all countries. They cannot be trusted - so most countries don’t want to take on China with USA’s support. And there is no other powerful, reliable country yet to counter China and are also reliable. India is that country but the problem is gdp growth rate is not picking up as fast as expected. This is why I say the world is looking to India to counter China but because of our stupid politics, we are unable to become big and powerful quickly. To this day, India has not been able to make top NRIs scientists return to India to work on top projects. China has been doing this for 20+ years now. And several Chinese professors and researchers in top US universities have returned to China for good.Unless we too do such things, we are not going to catch up with the CCP maniacs.
US could never get over its policy set by John Foster Dulles in fifties that anybody friend of Soviets (Russia now) cannot be friend of US. In contrast an ally of Soviets in 1970-2014 in China was befriend, showered with money and markets by US, and now it is an enemy. That is an indication that US has bad leadership in last 60 years who could not see the future properly in their expensive crystal balls (Think Tanks).

These diminutive Chinese who hardly speak English have started to dominate the US and European commercial way of life. There is hardly anything you can buy in the West which is not made in Chia, although it is third rate in quality.

The net result, they have too much cash and wish to dominate the world. It is here they are running against the policies of John Foster Dulles, Kissinger and many other foreign policy thinkers of US.

In case of India, all those Dulles followers in the US State Department are driving the policy. Even if Modi tried like hell to befriend US with (Obama and Trump), these policy makers advice otherwise. Hence India never gets in the good books and never receives money on the same scale as China had received.
 

RoaringTigerHiddenDragon

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US could never get over its policy set by John Foster Dulles in fifties that anybody friend of Soviets (Russia now) cannot be friend of US. In contrast an ally of Soviets in 1970-2014 in China was befriend, showered with money and markets by US, and now it is an enemy. That is an indication that US has bad leadership in last 60 years who could not see the future properly in their expensive crystal balls (Think Tanks).

These diminutive Chinese who hardly speak English have started to dominate the US and European commercial way of life. There is hardly anything you can buy in the West which is not made in Chia, although it is third rate in quality.

The net result, they have too much cash and wish to dominate the world. It is here they are running against the policies of John Foster Dulles, Kissinger and many other foreign policy thinkers of US.

In case of India, all those Dulles followers in the US State Department are driving the policy. Even if Modi tried like hell to befriend US with (Obama and Trump), these policy makers advice otherwise. Hence India never gets in the good books and never receives money on the same scale as China had received.
US and India have to go through a decade or two of trust building. The thing is there is huge relationships between the two countries in the field of IT and pharmaceuticals. There is no stopping the Indian private companies working with US companies in defense technology too. Now this is where Russia and China are going to get all insecure. India might be the only country where there is joint defense technology development with both the US and Russia. So india has a tricky line to walk. But also notice how india is not committing to any further joint defense tech development with Russian companies. I think this is what is going to happen:
- India will align with the west , Israel and Japan on infrastructure, defense manufacturing and deterring the PLA.
- india will align with Russia for commodities and nuclear energy.
- india will also align with the west for getting seats at the big tables like UNSC.

India is going to be in a complicated place until india can become a power itself. And then the world will get even more complicated with 3 powers. Lol. The point is we have to be smart and just do what is right for bharatvaasis. Right now india must close the economic and military power gap with China. That is all modi can and should do.
 

rockdog

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This is not bad, Shenzhen OEM/ODM industry will get huge orders on India.
And then it will help Xiaomi, Vivo, Oppo build higher brand image than before. Xiaomi would ask consumer to re-twitter its adv to get 20% off coupon if its price is more than Rs 12,000.

Now Chinese brands owns 75-80% share in India.

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