India-China 2021 Border conflict

maximus777

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On ATAGS -

View attachment 115393

As per reports, a date cannot be fixed, at the moment , as to when outstanding issues that are identified are to be resolved. Now, if is back to design & development, then ........
Couple of things -

1) Are we rejecting the good in pursuit of the perfect? There can always be a 2.0, 3.0 and so on with further improvements/fine tuning.

2) This is an indigenous system. When sh.t hits the fan and we take losses, foreign systems cannot close the gaps fast enough and even if they do, it will be at an exorbitant cost.

Is it still not good enough then?
 

Sir pe tapla

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Couple of things -

1) Are we rejecting the good in pursuit of the perfect? There can always be a 2.0, 3.0 and so on with further improvements/fine tuning.

2) This is an indigenous system. When sh.t hits the fan and we take losses, foreign systems cannot close the gaps fast enough and even if they do, it will be at an exorbitant cost.

Is it still not good enough then?
Only army is doing this babugiri of inducting things. Airforce Tejas MK1 is not perfect but it's bloody good and will be further improved in Mk1a. Navy is the best in supporting indigenous projects , be it their SF Equipment or ships.

Something needs to be done about this.
 

defc0n

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talks failed.

its preparation for upcoming military action against Chinese.

something like sept action taking over kailash range.
Either that or we are expecting a push from the Chinese side. Only time will tell. However, one thing I can assure you, "talks failed" is an invalid state in the automaton called GoI. It will keep running on a self loop.
 

maximus777

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Only army is doing this babugiri of inducting things. Airforce Tejas MK1 is not perfect but it's bloody good and will be further improved in Mk1a. Navy is the best in supporting indigenous projects , be it their SF Equipment or ships.

Something needs to be done about this.
Thanks to Parrikar for shoving it down IAF's throat or else they would still be flirting with some phoren maal through MMRCA.
 

ClawReed787

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talks failed.

its preparation for upcoming military action against Chinese.

something like sept action taking over kailash range.
Which one do you think would be more willing to supply equipments to us during a major conflict? Russia or US .
 

Covfefe

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A noob question, arent these obsolete inspite of the upgrades mentioned? Maybe only effective against slow moving UAV/UCAVs..
Multiple advantages- cheap ammo for saturation attacks (compared to manpads or sams), already guns in service in decent numbers (an upgrade program is cheaper than buying and integrating new platform all together), training is easier- troops are already trained on the working of guns
 

Sir pe tapla

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Thanks to Parrikar for shoving it down IAF's throat or else they would still be flirting with some phoren maal through MMRCA.
Fair enough, but airforce is backing all future projects. This can be seen with airforce acquiring indigenous missiles for its planes rather than going for Foriegn maal.
 

Foxbat

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I remember Nachiketa & Ajay Ahuja being shot down with these manpads (Stingers) during the Kargil war. So quite effective against jets as well.
Please stop repeating this Pakistani propaganda, its been 20+ years! Nachiketa's Mig-27 experienced a flameout when it was firing its cannon a common problem in those times as the exhaust gases from the cannon get into the engine intake.

During the Kargil War in 1999, K Nachiketa was a 26-year-old fighter pilot assigned the task of hitting Pakistani posts in Kargil at altitudes in excess of 17,000 feet. He had locked on to a target and fired the powerful cannon of his MiG 27 fighter bomber when he experienced a nightmare for a pilot anywhere. His engine "flamed out" - it went dead. Mid-air. Training took over: "get the engine restarted" was his only goal.

Source: https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/cap...ill-an-iaf-pilot-a-kargil-heros-story-1434437

A Blog by Kaiser Tufail who was the Director of Operations of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) during the Kargil conflict confirms the same:

"while a MiG-27 went down due to engine trouble caused by gun gas ingestion during high altitude strafing. (Incidentally, the pilot of the MiG-27 Flt Lt Nachiketa, who ejected and was apprehended, had a tête-à-tête with this author during an interesting ‘interrogation’ session.)"

Source: http://kaiser-aeronaut.blogspot.com/search?q=kargil

Ajay Ahuja then flew his Mig-21 to a very low altitude to look for Nachiketa who had ejected and came within the range of MANPADs and was shot down.
 

defc0n

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Please stop repeating this Pakistani propaganda, its been 20+ years! Nachiketa's Mig-27 experienced a flameout when it was firing its cannon a common problem in those times as the exhaust gases from the cannot get into the engine intake.

During the Kargil War in 1999, K Nachiketa was a 26-year-old fighter pilot assigned the task of hitting Pakistani posts in Kargil at altitudes in excess of 17,000 feet. He had locked on to a target and fired the powerful cannon of his MiG 27 fighter bomber when he experienced a nightmare for a pilot anywhere. His engine "flamed out" - it went dead. Mid-air. Training took over: "get the engine restarted" was his only goal.

Source: https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/cap...ill-an-iaf-pilot-a-kargil-heros-story-1434437

A Blog by Kaiser Tufail who was the Director of Operations of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) during the Kargil conflict confirms the same:

"while a MiG-27 went down due to engine trouble caused by gun gas ingestion during high altitude strafing. (Incidentally, the pilot of the MiG-27 Flt Lt Nachiketa, who ejected and was apprehended, had a tête-à-tête with this author during an interesting ‘interrogation’ session.)"

Source: http://kaiser-aeronaut.blogspot.com/search?q=kargil

Ajay Ahuja then flew his Mig-21 to a very low altitude to look for Nachiketa who had ejected and came within the range of MANPADs and was shot down.
I went through the incident after it was pointed out earlier. The point of the post was the effectiveness of MANPADS. It was not a propaganda for anyone. FYI.
 

Viper316

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talks failed.

its preparation for upcoming military action against Chinese.

something like sept action taking over kailash range.
Finally much expected LAC turning into LOC, no salami slicing or medievel style combat. No more free walk for PLA stating perception of line or no clear demarcation. Hope the whole stretch is armed and the protocol of not using lethal weapons is scrapped.
 

Hari Sud

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(Moderator please; I posted this paper in a different thread. That was a mistake. I would rather post it here for wide circulation and expression of views. Hence I am reposting here.)

Start of the end of China's domination of the supply chain.

The spread of the COVID-19 pandemic with China at its centre, either intentionally or accidentally in 2020, has emerged as a boon to China's trade and economic dominance. Its rapid spread in most parts of the world has provided China a greater outlet for its products. When most of the world was closed to stop the spread of the virus, China was apparently open for business. Then the world started to recover. The vaccines did their part and extraordinary precautions were taken to allow the world to control the pandemic. By July or August of 2021, sufficient progress had been made for the world to recover.

What was unknown at the time was the impact of pandemic on China itself. Their vaccines were 50% effective and guess work was that Chinese are as badly impacted by the virus as others. Yet they kept their factories humming for exports.

There are two aspects of their exports 1). Merchandise exports. 2). Exports of supply chain intermediaries. There are other aspects of Chinese perfidy, that include labour exports for building and construction (BRI and CPEC roads), ports and container terminal construction for willing countries in Asia Pacific. Chinese tell us that they continued uninterrupted as they pretended that the Covid -19 virus had not impacted China…..But is that the truth?

Also, since 1999, the Chinese have been spending huge sums of money on infrastructure building with brand new roads, people housing, dams and water works to enhance urban lifestyle and increase food production etc…. etc. This was all financed by export revenues and U.S. FDI (about $1 trillion over 10 years). On the surface, it seemed amazing. Their gleaming cities, brand new skyscrapers, new roads and new everything made them the envy of the rest of the underdeveloped world. The Chinese even subsidized city tours of China for the tourists to come and see. The returning tourists saw it all on the surface, but at the bottom of the interior was a decay that the communist government had covered up. It was a very poor quality hasty build devoid of any quality.

As the world bounced back from the shock of the pandemic in July or August 2021, the Chinese economy started to rot.

Over the past 20 years, the Chinese propaganda machine has spent about $10 billion a year to bribe the media around the world to get their positive views across. Actually, they were successful. Everybody had a positive opinion about China. Then came the bad news……

First bad news in September 2021, was loan default of a very big Chinese real estate company with $300 billion loans which stayed unpaid. Then came the news of a huge power shortage which had blacked out half of China’s industrial heartland. Since there was no power, hence export factories suffered production losses. The ever dependent West found its shelves with a lesser and lesser variety of consumer products. Although the consumer after pandemic was not in a spending mood, they realized that certain everyday items like cars and other industrial products assembled locally of Chinese parts are in short supply. In fact car assembly lines which use computer chips have stopped production altogether……what a mess! Many other products have gone down the same path. The net impact was that Chinese made fake products appeared in the market, ruining the product reputation.

Inside China, excessive rainfall has devastated rural areas. Roads, bridges, small dams, housing, etc. were washed away, adding to the misery of over ambitious Communist government. We only hear from the people’s report, but the Chinese government kept mum.

On top of that since 2008, Chinese with excessive cash at their disposal began a huge military buildup. Their main aim, to dominate the world. In 2020, they picked up a military fight with India in the Himalayas inhospitable land. This year, they are making a serious effort to grab Taiwan back to Chinese rule. The success of these two misadventures is uncertain because India presented an iron fist and to save Taiwan, world powers (USA) are standing by. The Chinese have not relented to these claims.

Hence, where do we stand opposite Chinese ambitions. ….. Their "supply side" has been disrupted as Western consumers buy fewer Chinese products. The Pandemic has ruined their reputation at the cash counter.

With the forgoing, the world’s knowledge of impeding multiple bankruptcies and no power to run the factories has forced them to develop an alternative supply chain. It may take ten years for the West to do that, but it shall be done. And if to shore up their internal situation, they continue their fight in the Himalayas with India or invade Taiwan, then the Chinese reputation of supply chain, consumer goods heaven is permanently ruined.
 

maximus777

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With our cuckold philosophy we will never do a preemptive strike even if the attack is imminent. PLA with its superior numbers will unleash a arty/rocket barrage at a moment of its choosing and the key would be to survive the first strike and keep our losses to a minimum. I hope our planners have some smart strategies to do exactly this. I have full faith in IA that regardless of the cost, they will hold the line. But I am only an armchair expert - what do I know?
 

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