India-China 2021 Border conflict

Haldilal

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Ya'll Nibbiars It's a little bit more than a year that the the GOI has understood the importance of the Information Warfare. The Balakot was a wake up call. And It will take time to set up the apparatus for such works. And remember even RAW taken some time until it become effective in the 1971.
 

Haldilal

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Ya'll Nibbiars the PLA has Propaganda division since it's foundation. And when was the last time we carried out such Information Warfare?. 1971. After that any?. Almost non. We have to not just revive this but also for the age of the computer and hyper networking.

Ya'll Nibbiars as of today we don't have a effective Information Warfare apparatus. Just planning, Ideas, and just in implementation not running. Will take time to set up such organization. And nothing happens overnight. You can't start the operations without setting up the organization and training the staffs.
 
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Haldilal

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Ya'll Nibbiars ever course has a action and reaction. When you release something you have to brace for the opposite reaction and counter that and that can't be done from a public relations department or leaking via some third parties. But with proper planning and timing. Nothing is accidentally leaks in this area and everything is planned. The chinese outsmarted us in propaganda now but remember despite being handicapped in the information warfare we tried the best before. But due to some recent leakage of some footages and photography is not that we lost completely in the information warfare. We may have lost a battle in this Domain but still not the war. It's far from being over.
 
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Maharaj skandgupta

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Ya'll Nibbiars ever course has a action and reaction. When you release something you have to brace for the opposite reaction and counter that and that can't be done from a public relations department or leaking via some third parties. But with proper planning and timing. Nothing is accidentally leaves in this area and everything is planned. The chinese outsmarted us in propaganda now but remember despite being handicapped in the information warfare we tried the best before. But due to some recent leakage of some footages and photography is not that we lost completely in the information warfare. We may have lost a battle in this Domain but still not the war. It's far from being over.
I believe this cat , he is right on all accounts .
Leave pla , every communist organisation has a propaganda division .While I guess adgpi is a very recent organisation , so it may take time .
Remember the government has its own inertia .
 

Haldilal

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I believe this cat , he is right on all accounts .
Leave pla , every communist organisation has a propaganda division .While I guess adgpi is a very recent organisation , so it may take time .
Remember the government has its own inertia .
Ya'll Nibbiars remember the Mleechas are a class one liars and propagandists. They are going to leak every image and videos at appropriate time. Where ever they go they have a cameraman with them. They will shoot with anything they have from a camera to a camcorder to even a mobile. And now their smear campaign is at full heights. Many dormant accounts being reactivated on the SM and also here to spread this. A give a impression of their side of the war over us.

When I first saw the images I didn't go into the melt down mode as I knew this is nothing new and being done by the mleechas againa and again before. This time on just a larger scale.
 

Maharaj skandgupta

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Ya'll Nibbiars remember the Mleechas are a class one liars and propagandists. They are going to leak every image and videos at appropriate time. Where ever they go they have a cameraman with them. They will shoot with anything they have from a camera to a camcorder to even a mobile. And now their smear campaign is at full heights. Many domains account being reactivated on the SM and also here to spread this. A give a impress of their side of the war over us.

When I first saw the images I didn't go into the melt down mode as I knew this is nothing new and being done by the mleechas againa and again before. This time on just a larger scale.
I admire your nerve halde, it's impressive to be honest .
Still it hurts when our side does very little to counter them
 

Haldilal

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I admire your nerve halde, it's impressive to be honest .
Still it hurts when our side does very little to counter them
Ya'll Nibbiars we never have been in this type of the Information Warfare before. The pakis Mullahs are nothing when compared to the Mleechas. They have millions of dollars to run this smear campaigns. Nothing happens for free and what our budget for this kind of campaigns are?.

Do we even have enough manpower, trained staff, budget, apparatus for such Information Warfare?. We never had done a Information Warfare with such advisory. And Remembe after the dhoklam where we put up a fierce fight. They have come here to almost take a revenge and will not spare to go any low to name and shame us. Remember their Some agency making fun of us with some online videos. They can go to any low than event that. The Mleechas have no sma when coming to this things.
 
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The Shrike

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"Information warfare" is not a new concept, it is as old as warfare itself. All war is based on deception and belligerents morale is the most important deciding factor in any conflict. Breaking your enemies moral is at the core of any battle plan - Lets stop pretending like this is a recent concept, only thing recent is the medium it is being conducted over (the interwebs).
 

Haldilal

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"Information warfare" is not a new concept, it is as old as warfare itself. All war is based on deception and belligerents morale is the most important deciding factor in any conflict. Breaking your enemies moral is at the core of any battle plan - Lets stop pretending like this is a recent concept, only thing recent is the medium it is being conducted over (the interwebs).
Ya'll Nibbiars The SM and this new age media is not something that the Establishment is of familiar.

We were effective in using the private news media in kargil but not now. And remember most of the western SM sites are Mleechas friendly. And also remember this is not 1965 or 1971 the old method will not work now. New medium requires new strategies. And expect 1999. We never were in this kind of situations.

And I never said The Information Warfare is a new concept. But

1 . We don't have a permanent Information Warfare division.

2 . And can't develop new tactics in new domains until we have such apparatus.

3 . Can't carry out effective organised strategies within that.

4 . Need resources and training into that.

5 . Alreday working on that but will take time.

6 . Nothing happens overnight.

Ya'll Nibbiars During the WW II we had such division in the Indian Government. But this concept of vasundhra Kutumbh destroyed that. In 1971 we had a similar apparatus but again then the Morajai Desai happened. And again during the IK Gujral destroyed many such departments with the Pakistan desk during the Open Door Policy. And we all remember the MMS era no scop for such departments.

Ya'll Nibbiars in the other words the Information warfare is still new to us why?.

And despite possessing such departments in the past the all knowledge with them is lost with the successive governments systematically destroying them.
 
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The Shrike

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Ya'll Nibbiars The SM and this new age media is not something that the Establishment is of familiar.

We were effective in using the privet news media in kargil but not now. And remember most the western SM sites are Mleechas friendly. And also remember this is not 1965 or 1971 the old method will not work now. New medium requires new strategies. And expect 1999. We never were in this kind of situations.
In 1962 our Establishment were not even able to properly equip our troops with basic cold weather clothing, but then we were a bhooka, nanga nation where defence was not prioritised. Nearly 6 decades later in 2020 we find out that the Establishment did not think of stocking enough winter clothing and had to run to the US to borrow their stock. Not identifying signs of incompetence and accepting chalta hai attitude will only ensure your more of troops get killed (and likely loose) the next war.

Also I don’t get why you think we did great in 1999, Were the Paxi Army generals scared shitless watching Barkha Dutt's live coverage of Kargil?
 

Haldilal

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In 1962 our Establishment were not even able to properly equip our troops with basic cold weather clothing, but then we were a bhooka, nanga nation where defence was not prioritised. Nearly 6 decades later in 2020 we find out that the Establishment did not think of stocking enough winter clothing and had to run to the US to borrow their stock. Not identifying signs of incompetence and accepting chalta hai attitude will only ensure your more of troops get killed (and likely loose) the next war.

Also I don’t get why you think we did great in 1999, Were the Paxi Army generals scared shitless watching Barkha Dutt's live coverage of Kargil?

Ya'll Nibbiars even with many flaws we were effective than the Pakistan in 1999 where come to the Information Warfare. What now is lack of preparedness in the Information Warfare as we have to reestablish all the Information Apparatus that we had previously sabotaged by the previous successive government.

And many of us forget that the previous governments successfully sabotaged our many war apparatus like in the kargil we were got by suprised all due to the I K Gujral. Who successfully sabotaged the Pakistan desk and RAW and what can be a greater examples then the film made by his chamas Hindustan ki kasam. We have faced destruction of many of ours apparatus by such government in the past. So no sunrise here. And don't think any Information Warfare failure here as we lack it atleats now.
 

The Shrike

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Since some folks are oh so interested in asking why-why-why, lets come to the basic question: Why the frack are Chinese massed up on our border, what are they trying to achieve?
While the MEA and IA chief have basically shrugged their shoulders on that question, the answer is quite simple - the Chinese think they have arrived, they don't think we are their equals, only good enough to be a tributary nation and want to put us in our place. They have been constantly needling even while we were chanting peace and tranquility with them. And we have never responded to them to the same extent if at all any response was even given. We accept that Tibet is part of China, and what does CCP do next? They claim the whole of AP, and start policy of "stamped" visas - How do we respond? Mealy mouthed bleating of our MEA diplomats. There are many other instances.
We need to first decide if we think of ourselves as inferior to the Chinese "middle kingdom" nation, only fit to be a vassal state or if we are equals (or maybe even superior?). The CCP only respects strength, only giving them back as good as one gets (or even better) will disabuse their notion of superiority. "Oh Don't provoke the Chinese" attitude will only reinforce their sense of superiority.
And coming to the leaked videos of Galwan, this is such an easy game for us to play, it is already well known that we lost 20 men and several dozen were wounded and captured, while the CCP admitted only 4 KIA after months. i.e. The Chinese cannot release anything that we don’t already know (even if the images are disturbing). One way to play it would be to have a mid level official casually state "Its really sad that CCP does not acknowledge it's brave dead" and have some anonymous handle drop pics of KIA they have not accounted for or deserters (as per Saurabh Jha). Not doing so can only mean:
1) We are beta ***ks and don’t want to "provoke" the Chinese
2) We are stupid
3) We genuinely have no material (which is difficult to believe)
4) Releasing videos (and expected counter videos) will actually raise more questions for our own establishment (something is being hidden from public).
 

Haldilal

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BTW would suggest to add post fix ("III") or call this thread "India-China border conflict Oct-2021" or some thing, having threads with same name is a bit confusing.
Ya'll Nibbiars this is the fourth therad on this Mleechas conflict.
 

sachincba

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Since some folks are oh so interested in asking why-why-why, lets come to the basic question: Why the frack are Chinese massed up on our border, what are they trying to achieve?
While the MEA and IA chief have basically shrugged their shoulders on that question, the answer is quite simple - the Chinese think they have arrived, they don't think we are their equals, only good enough to be a tributary nation and want to put us in our place. They have been constantly needling even while we were chanting peace and tranquility with them. And we have never responded to them to the same extent if at all any response was even given. We accept that Tibet is part of China, and what does CCP do next? They claim the whole of AP, and start policy of "stamped" visas - How do we respond? Mealy mouthed bleating of our MEA diplomats. There are many other instances.
We need to first decide if we think of ourselves as inferior to the Chinese "middle kingdom" nation, only fit to be a vassal state or if we are equals (or maybe even superior?). The CCP only respects strength, only giving them back as good as one gets (or even better) will disabuse their notion of superiority. "Oh Don't provoke the Chinese" attitude will only reinforce their sense of superiority.
And coming to the leaked videos of Galwan, this is such an easy game for us to play, it is already well known that we lost 20 men and several dozen were wounded and captured, while the CCP admitted only 4 KIA after months. i.e. The Chinese cannot release anything that we don’t already know (even if the images are disturbing). One way to play it would be to have a mid level official casually state "Its really sad that CCP does not acknowledge it's brave dead" and have some anonymous handle drop pics of KIA they have not accounted for or deserters (as per Saurabh Jha). Not doing so can only mean:
1) We are beta ***ks and don’t want to "provoke" the Chinese
2) We are stupid
3) We genuinely have no material (which is difficult to believe)
4) Releasing videos (and expected counter videos) will actually raise more questions for our own establishment (something is being hidden from public).
This is quite right that Chinese respect only strength. You give them a good beating and they will behave properly. If you give them respect or respect their sentiments, they will not respect you-- they will think you are weak.

This whole video thing, I think Chinese may leverage it in Indian elections. Imagine releasing some pictures/video of our soldiers in the time of elections to decrease votes for Modi.

Modi is a politician. Of all the things he may or may not respond, if something reduces his votes-- he will be forced to take countermeasures or he will lose votes and power.

And those who wish to force GoI/Army to respond in this IW. In stead of saying positive Indian role in Galwan, spread the word that Chinese gave Indians a good beating-- you will get a response. The best way to get correct answers is to say incorrect things.

Bit the difficulty is that India has nothing to hide. We acknowledge our shortcomings, wherever they are.
 

Dharmocrat

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This is quite right that Chinese respect only strength. You give them a good beating and they will behave properly. If you give them respect or respect their sentiments, they will not respect you-- they will think you are weak.

This whole video thing, I think Chinese may leverage it in Indian elections. Imagine releasing some pictures/video of our soldiers in the time of elections to decrease votes for Modi.

Modi is a politician. Of all the things he may or may not respond, if something reduces his votes-- he will be forced to take countermeasures or he will lose votes and power.

And those who wish to force GoI/Army to respond in this IW. In stead of saying positive Indian role in Galwan, spread the word that Chinese gave Indians a good beating-- you will get a response. The best way to get correct answers is to say incorrect things.

Bit the difficulty is that India has nothing to hide. We acknowledge our shortcomings, wherever they are.

You mean to say we should demean the valour of our own soldiers forcing the govt to counter it? Meaning we should surrender to the IW of Chinese bat munchers, and apne khud ki sainiko ki avhelana karna hain?

BC yeh kya bakchodi hain?

" The best way to get correct answers is to say incorrect things."

Unbelievable fu**ing stupidity this part is. Defeats the whole purpose of having this forum. Mods please note this stupidity and take action.
 

srevster

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You mean to say we should demean the valour of our own soldiers forcing the govt to counter it? Meaning we should surrender to the IW of Chinese bat munchers, and apne khud ki sainiko ki avhelana karna hain?

BC yeh kya bakchodi hain?

" The best way to get correct answers is to say incorrect things."

Unbelievable fu**ing stupidity this part is. Defeats the whole purpose of having this forum. Mods please note this stupidity and take action.
In game theory being unpredictable is the best option some times. If you understand incentives vs repercussions and extrapolate for a positive outcome. Being unemotional and impartial to different strategies is a key aspect of psychological warfare,
 

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