India-China 2020 Border Dispute - Military and Strategic Discussion

[ezsasa]

You are being too dismissive of the PLA there.. The fact that Indian Army hasn't undertaken any operation to restore the status quo ante, means that IA/GOI do not share you esteemed opinion of PLA incompetence..
Yes, PLA's lack of recent battlefield experience would be a handicap. But, would it be such a huge handicap that India can rest assured of victory..?

if they have avoided earning battle experience for 40 years, why should we give them practice?
they used stones and clubs even when they had a chance to go at it like a professional military, that's their level of confidence in their own PLA troops.

 

[Blue Water Navy]

Well I am not stopping you from posting the Chinese paid or not paid propaganda create a different thread for our fellow Chinese/pakmullahs DFIans and cary on.

Ok, you wanted facts!!! And not promotion...Go watch this video..It exactly says how CCP actually is when it comes to freedom and speech.

BTW, CCP can't handle criticism. So, all they have to do now is to shut a billion people's mouth of a foreign country.

 

[Haldilal]

Ok, you wanted facts!!! And not promotion...Go watch this video..It exactly says how CCP actually is when it comes to freedom and speech.

BTW, CCP can't handle criticism. So, all they have to do now is to shut a billion people's mouth of a foreign country.

Okay Yall's Niggirs I am now being crushed under the name of free speech.

I will keep a distance and observe it quietly better not to get burned in this hyper active thread.

 

[Shashank Nayak]

if they have avoided earning battle experience for 40 years, why should we give them practice?
they used stones and clubs even when they had a chance to go at it like a professional military, that's their level of confidence in their own PLA troops.

My question is: Does India ( talking about government policy here and not local level action ) have a red line, which when crossed, India will use force against China, to force them to vacate the occupied territory.. ?
Hypothetical scenario: 50 PLA soldiers sit on the DSDBO road, in a surprise move. Do we arrest them, by overpowering them ? Or we negotiate and wait for them to leave ? Are there any policy guidelines ?

 

[ezsasa]

My question is: Does India ( talking about government policy here and not local level action ) have a red line, which when crossed, India will use force against China, to force them to vacate the occupied territory.. ?
Hypothetical scenario: 50 PLA soldiers sit on the DSDBO road, in a surprise move. Do we arrest them, by overpowering them ? Or we negotiate and wait for them to leave ? Are there any policy guidelines ?

everybody can only speculate. No mate, i don't have answer to this question.

 

[Kumata]

Also if you look at the video, around 0:31 to 0:34 seconds mark, the soldier firing his rifle. It look like the propellant in the ammunition is not getting properly burnt or oxidized as you can see black smoke coming out when the empty case is ejected and that's going to be a problem.

Mast video tha... Enjoyed it....i always said that they have good photo & videographers

 

[LDev]

So, by your logic China isn't even afraid of USA in South China Sea??

Big difference. The islands in the South China Sea are not US territories or claimed by the US as it's territories. India does claim Aksai Chin and POK and China and Pakistan have been squatting on these Indian claimed territories for 60-70 years.

 

[hit&run]

Everyone is an armchair General here. Let's not patronize members. Please avoid personal attacks. If anyone need my help because they can not write without making it personal I am happy to assist by editing their posts for next few hours.
Regards.

 

[Blue Water Navy]

@LDev What that fellow wrote was basically that fear is the only factor that drives China's actions.

So, I wrote about SCS. With that logic China isn't scared of US.

Sharing a border or grabbing own or ally's land has nothing to do with it.

 

[Mikel]

Use to love Jackie Chan as a kid. Lost all respect. What a traitor and sellout.

He is a horrible person in real life. Google some of his scandals.

 

[ArgonPrime]

Found this thread critiquing Chinese military hardware.
Long thread alert -

Abhi itna bhi daant dikhane ki zaroorat nehi, we aren't that much better off ourselves either. And he got everything wrong about the tanks anyway.
For one, the main gun on the ZTZ 99 is most certainly stabilized which ain't even up for debate. Take a closer look, it's the whole tank that was rocking, not the main gun itself!!
And as for the whole wedge-shaped front armor shot trap thing and how it's "An ELEMENTARY engineering blunder that the west knew about 80 years ago." , the Germans apparently didn't get the memo I suppose.

Now coming to the whole HMG muzzle blast thing is concerned, at least they have a working HMG operationalized that doesn't look like something that was brought out of a WWII museum, like those rusty old NSVs which are in use in our army!!

 

[Bhurki]

Abhi itna bhi daant dikhane ki zaroorat nehi, we aren't that much better off ourselves either. And he got everything wrong about the tanks anyway.
For one, the main gun on the ZTZ 99 is most certainly stabilized which ain't even up for debate. Take a closer look, it's the whole tank that was rocking, not the main gun itself!!
And as for the whole wedge-shaped front armor shot trap thing and how it's "An ELEMENTARY engineering blunder that the west knew about 80 years ago." , the Germans apparently didn't get the memo I suppose.

Now coming to the whole HMG muzzle blast thing is concerned, at least they have a working HMG operationalized that doesn't look like something that was brought out of a WWII museum, like those rusty old NSVs which are in use in our army!!

The air around on this thread is already grim.
Please don't give the people any harder a time.

 

[nick_indian]

My question is: Does India ( talking about government policy here and not local level action ) have a red line, which when crossed, India will use force against China, to force them to vacate the occupied territory.. ?
Hypothetical scenario: 50 PLA soldiers sit on the DSDBO road, in a surprise move. Do we arrest them, by overpowering them ? Or we negotiate and wait for them to leave ? Are there any policy guidelines ?

I think there are red lines. Like in Galwan the Chinese had come into undisputed Indian territory. Tha t led to a bloody clash. The Chinese crossed a red line.

I think the Indian red lines at the LAC would be Chinese taking over undisputed Indian area or area with population in it.

Chinese taking over buffer zones where there was previously no Indian control, like the present situation would not be a red line.

 

[ArgonPrime]

The air around on this thread is already grim.
Please don't give the people any harder a time.

Merely stating the obvious here, m8. The fact is, we really have got nothing to cheer for at the perceived inadequacies of the Chinese while we don't really have a leg to stand on ourselves when it comes to military equipment.

 

[Bhadra]

I have a question is this a China Promotion thread on DFI? I heard of Business promotion Cultural Promotion. But not seen this kind of promotion create a different China Promotion /Bashing thread, Carry on my fellow Chineses DFIans.

It is not China promotion but Modi demotion that is at work. People invariably forget to differentiate between the two. It is a 100 years old Congress and Communist culture amy be Jaichand Culture. They even prompted a Turkish / Arabic concept of Khilafat for garnering domestic political support and sowed the seed of Partition. Glorifying Palestinian cause, supporting China in the UN and canvassing for their membership to UNSC were all done in a historical period for political motives.

And that at times is being done deliberately. That includes defaming the Forces day and night and not by stakeholders and competitors like OFB, DPSUs and DRDO but people outside of that in line with instigators like "Ferzical Strike" and "Gali ka Gunda" proponents.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Sir, with all due respect...

why haven't you asked in 1962 or before doesn't make any sense.
people voted this govt to see something different than previous govts used to do. but still now, this govt has completely failed in present LAC crisis.

still we are unhappy with Nehru for 1962 but in 1962 at least he tried something. that result could have been a bit different if they were not that much inefficient.

anybody has to reply salami slicing with force. inaction won't solve the problem.

surprisingly, the tone in your comment reflects suppression of material facts and blaming others to suppress own failure. I've not seen any other comment from you like this. I'm very much confused.

I don't give a damn to RaGa or people like Shukla. but 20 of our brothers died and now it seems PLA will be at f4, depsang etc. so their death has gone in vain. and we are being fed multipolar-bipolar $hit and befitting reply.
btw, who has given befitting reply? only the local commanders. what the govt has done so far except talking rubbish? apart from app ban and some $B project cancellation? do you really think that will even be able to scratch China?

I don't like ranting. but suppression of facts are more dangerous than ranting. constructive critisism is needed.

to fight, at first the mentality to fight is needed but that's completely missing here.

I'm not a poster boy of BJP but I'm of our country. and sorry to say, this govt is not doing better than previous govts (wrt China).

still not acknowledging intrusion and supporting that is nothing but a politically motivated step.

hoping it's not over yet...

again very sorry to write this comment but your last para compelled me to write this. again sorry. nothing personal...

Why do I feel I have read this post before ?

Nehru did nothing but stupidity , killed our soldiers and gave Tibet and Region of J&K to China.

"They" weren't efficient ? Who they you are talking abt ?

That moron sent soldier ahead without ration supply without firepower didn't planned or gave heed to army planners but followed his stupid egoistic moves.

 

[Haldilal]

It is not China promotion but Modi demotion that is at work. People invariably forget to differentiate between the two. It is a 100 years old Congress and Communist culture amy be Jaichand Culture. They even prompted a Turkish / Arabic concept of Khilafat for garnering domestic political support and sowed the seed of Partition. Glorifying Palestinian cause, supporting China in the UN and canvassing for their membership to UNSC were all done in a historical period for political motives.

And that at times is being done deliberately. That includes defaming the Forces day and night and not by stakeholders and competitors like OFB, DPSUs and DRDO but people outside of that in line with instigators like "Ferzical Strike" and "Gali ka Gunda" proponents.

Thanks @Bhadra for pointing out that I have seen that for last few days.

Too much shivering is happening here china is this china is that bla bla bla. I just want to ask if china is so mighty, should we just abandoned our land and do a slavery live the goraes forced us to ?

We need to learn that china is just a mirage of Mightness, smash it and you get a china that is afraid. I we gone mad china will cease to exist even if we perish in that case. Common Nibbers get some courage Forces are well prepared. We should not have a ounce of doubt on it. We lose the battle When we think we cant win. War has not started and we are talking like we cant take them off. I am not blaming anyone but should only blame chineses and not vice versa.

 

[Blue Water Navy]

@Flying Dagger That's why I don't like Nehru. Not even a bit..

Nehru's doings are solely responsible for today's many problems.

 

[Mikel]

Abhi itna bhi daant dikhane ki zaroorat nehi, we aren't that much better off ourselves either. And he got everything wrong about the tanks anyway.
For one, the main gun on the ZTZ 99 is most certainly stabilized which ain't even up for debate. Take a closer look, it's the whole tank that was rocking, not the main gun itself!!
And as for the whole wedge-shaped front armor shot trap thing and how it's "An ELEMENTARY engineering blunder that the west knew about 80 years ago." , the Germans apparently didn't get the memo I suppose.

Now coming to the whole HMG muzzle blast thing is concerned, at least they have a working HMG operationalized that doesn't look like something that was brought out of a WWII museum, like those rusty old NSVs which are in use in our army!!

Don't think anyone is saying that Indian equipment is state of the art but it is important to remove the veneer of invincibility that anyone might be under the impression of about the Chinese.

 

[Sanglamorre]

Okay, so when does the "statute of limitations" expire on blaming Congress?

At some point the tendency to go "Look Congress!", Or "Neheru!" Has to stop, yes? Or terming everything as Modi bashing when it is Modi in power, not Congress?

What is the time? 10 years? 20? Or are we demanding full 70 years now before we can blame the present govt for problems in present?

People are being asked why they haven't asked Congress the same question despite them voting in BJP last two years: something the generations actually old enough to see '62, 2000s as voting adults failed to do.

Modi is currently in power, who will we ask and criticise? Congress? Should we also give the praise for Ram Mandir to them too?

Ridiculous. They have been in power for six years. Might have been more prepared if didnt spend half that time doing friendship trials with Palatal. Pakistan and China.

Yes, everyone gets it. Neheru did this, Neheru did that. He and Congress were terrible. But that argument isn't going to thwart our enemies.