India-China 2020 Border Dispute - Military and Strategic Discussion

[cereal killer]

Looking at the latest polling tracker data below, let me put it this way. We're fu***d!!

View attachment 55439

It can go either way atm. For Biden to win he has to do well in debates. Trump is backing on that to get reelection.

 

[Brood Father]

This is really very scary if this is the attitude of our babus and politicians.

 

[Indrajit]

I read this article earlier today and except for that supposed quote the rest of the article was informative.

If that quote is true though, I was wondering what on earth is the thinking....."undermines trust"? Didnt that happen when they parked themselves there in the first place.?...and it's not a deal breaker.? What type of deal are these guys selling in the first place..?

Btw, the point made that India had a permanent presence till Kargil war at finger 7 is an eye opener if true.

 

[cereal killer]

This is really very scary if this is the attitude of our babus and politicians.

It is out of babus hands now. The country is literally f***d with corona. Economy is down the drain. Modi is feeling the heat for the first time ever since 2014.

 

[ezsasa]

I read this article earlier today and except for that supposed quote the rest of the article was informative.

If that quote is true though, I was wondering what on earth is the thinking....."undermines trust"? Didnt that happen when they parked themselves there in the first place.?...and it's not a deal breaker.? What type of deal are these guys selling in the first place..?

Btw, the point made that India had a permanent presence till Kargil war at finger 7 is an eye opener if true.

Can’t be judgemental based on unnamed sources, that too when the report is from a CNN affiliated news organisation.

 

[ninja hattori]

Govt. issues draft policy to ramp up defence exports Aim is to achieve manufacturing turnover of ₹1,75,000 cr.

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Building self-reliance: HAL’s Light Combat Helicopter during a flight trial at Jodhpur in this file photo.Special Arrangement@MOD/Twitter​

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With the aim of achieving a manufacturing turnover of $25 bn or ₹1,75,000 crore, including exports of $5 bn in aerospace and defence goods and services by 2025, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) on Monday put out a draft ‘Defence Production & Export Promotion Policy (DPEPP) 2020’ for public feedback.
“The DPEPP 2020 is envisaged as overarching guiding document of MoD to provide a focused, structured and significant thrust to defence production capabilities of the country for self-reliance and exports,” the Ministry said in a statement. Inputs and comments on the draft policy can be sent up to August 17.
“The share of domestic procurement in overall defence procurement is about 60%. In order to enhance procurement from domestic industry, it is incumbent that procurement is doubled from the current ₹70,000 crore to ₹1,40,000 crore by 2025,” the draft document states.
On increasing defence exports, the policy states that Defence Attachés have been mandated and are supported to promote export of indigenous defence equipment abroad. This effort would be supplemented by selected Defence Public Sector Undertakings (DPSU), which would work as export promotion agencies for certain countries with earnings linked to success fee, to promote export of defence products abroad. “Subject to strategic considerations, domestically manufactured defence products will be promoted through Government to Government agreements and Lines of Credit/Funding.”
Aerospace industry
The opportunities in the aerospace industry have been identified in the following segments — aircraft build work, aircraft Maintenance, Repair and Overhaul (MRO), helicopters, engine manufacturing and MRO work, line replaceable units, Unmanned Aerial Vehicles and upgrades and retrofits.
A Project Management Unit will be set up for estimation of development and production lead times specifications and technologies involved

 

[garg_bharat]

So the forum is graduating from from Chinese in Galwan valley to Nuclear strikes...
There is a significant class of people in India especially amongst Politicians, Babus and DRDO who think that soldiers no longer require a good rifle because India has Prithvi and Agni.. They even go to the town declaring there would not be any military Conflict and Army is just wasting national resources...

How wrong they have been proved time and again... again and again.

Both side of the arguments have merit.
A North Korea scares USA by testing hydrogen bomb. Did India test one? Our confused approach to defence did not allow a demonstrable nuclear capability. For that we need a test of 200KT weapon.

So here we stand. We are neither here nor there.

Anyway I believe that India does not live in a vacuum. While we are facing the heat in Ladakh; eventually bigger actor (West) will enter the scene. I think India stands a good chance of recovering lost ground in Ladakh.

BUT India better develop institutions to support long term strength in military affairs. The current ones are not adequate.

 

[ninja hattori]

@mods kindly make a thread. and invite brainstorming on the policy so that we all can actually provide govt with feedback on the draft policy and use this forum as a representation to govt. And make all brains here used as a defence parliament to produce some significant changes for our country.

 

[garg_bharat]

1. India needs a pool of military manpower of 20 million men to be able to dominate South Asia. The current pool of around 4 million men is too small.

2. India needs a vibrant domestic arms industry which can fulfill at least 75% of defence requirements by value.

3. India needs to utilize ex-military people efficiently in civil field. Retraining, job assistance etc. are needed.

4. Finally India needs draft of about 1 million men per year.

5. At this time big orders on private industries will go a long way in improving long term future of local arms industry.

 

[DownWithCCP]

1. India needs a pool of military manpower of 20 million men to be able to dominate South Asia. The current pool of around 4 million men is too small.

2. India needs a vibrant domestic arms industry which can fulfill at least 75% of defence requirements by value.

3. India needs to utilize ex-military people efficiently in civil field. Retraining, job assistance etc. are needed.

4. Finally India needs draft of about 1 million men per year.

5. At this time big orders on private industries will go a long way in improving long term future of local arms industry.

JIO arms factory for the win.

 

[Suryavanshi]

Looking at the latest polling tracker data below, let me put it this way. We're fu***d!!

View attachment 55439

This is a dog u may not think it is but it is a dog.
Some people may tell otherwise but this is a dog.
We know it is a dog and that is why u must believe it is a dog.
It may meow soemtimes but believe me it is a dog.
U need to take him on a walk, make him guard your home feed bones to him because this is a dog.

Spoiler

American media summarised

 

[cereal killer]

1. India needs a pool of military manpower of 20 million men to be able to dominate South Asia. The current pool of around 4 million men is too small.

2. India needs a vibrant domestic arms industry which can fulfill at least 75% of defence requirements by value.

3. India needs to utilize ex-military people efficiently in civil field. Retraining, job assistance etc. are needed.

4. Finally India needs draft of about 1 million men per year.

5. At this time big orders on private industries will go a long way in improving long term future of local arms industry.

Increasing Manpower is never an issue as during emergency we can enlist as many as we like. Tbh like China we Should focus military modernization. Advanced infantry gear. And focus on our missile capability both in quality & quantity. Subsonic cruise missiles like Nirbhay needs to be improved. Longer range MBRLs, Get more bombers, attack helicopters. We are very light on Submarines as well. Need at least 2 aircraft carriers fully operational.
If we do this we'll be dominating entire South Asia & IOR.

 

[johnq]

Amid standoff, China builds road to mineral rich area
"The blacktopped road, designed to take on heavy transport vehicles, has come up right next to the LAC close to India’s Gogra post, in an area that satellite images suggest hold valuable natural resources like gold. Completed in barely three weeks, the road is just under four kilometres long and connects to a larger network that China has built along the LAC for the past few years."

The Chinese thieves will probably make underground tunnels and mines into Indian side to steal gold. This is the REAL reason for the Chinese stealing land from India in Ladakh.

 

[another_armchair]

Indians - Trump Chacha aayenge, India ko China se bachayenge... aur baad mein rojgaar bhi denge.

Meanwhile Trump -

Donald Trump bans H-1B tech workers from federal government contracts

/bhakBC

 

[garg_bharat]

Increasing Manpower is never an issue as during emergency we can enlist as many as we like. Tbh like China we Should focus military modernization. Advanced infantry gear. And focus on our missile capability both in quality & quantity. Subsonic cruise missiles like Nirbhay needs to be improved. Longer range MBRLs, Get more bombers, attack helicopters. We are very light on Submarines as well. Need at least 2 aircraft carriers fully operational.
If we do this we'll be dominating entire South Asia & IOR.

Since India is a populous nation we get a false sense that we are rich in manpower.
Recruiting in wartime is not easy. Our primary recourse are soldiers who are retired but less than 50 years of age. We may draw some from CAPFs. Some recruitment can be from NCC pool. Overall we will struggle to get more than one million men if there is shortage. Not good for a country our size.

If we have intense war at our land borders, my estimate is that we may need 2-3 million men fighting and similar numbers in reserve. Rest we need for internal security.

Vedic yardstick is that one men from 30% families should be available in wartime for State duty.

The MBRL, bombers are good but not replacement for soldiers. You will need numbers to attack behind the lines.

 

[cereal killer]

Since India is a populous nation we get a false sense that we are rich in manpower.
Recruiting in wartime is not easy. Our primary recourse are soldiers who are retired but less than 50 years of age. We may draw some from CAPFs. Some recruitment can be from NCC pool. Overall we will struggle to get more than one million men if there is shortage. Not good for a country our size.

If we have intense war at our land borders, my estimate is that we may need 2-3 million men fighting and similar numbers in reserve. Rest we need for internal security.

Vedic yardstick is that one men from 30% families should be available in wartime for State duty.

The MBRL, bombers are good but not replacement for soldiers. You will need numbers to attack behind the lines.

I'd say Chinese have also decreased their PLA infantry recently & Indian army at present is largest standing army in the world. More soldiers will drain more out of defence budgets coz of salaries so it is a disadvantage. I'd still say we have enough. Better we should make 2 year light military training compulsory for boys starting from high schools especially in those regions where Indian army recruitment is high (regiment wise) Israeli tactic but since we live in a hostile neighbourhood it seems plausible.

 

[DownWithCCP]

 

[mokoman]

Chinese pulling back:

Truck almost hits a pole

1316768 views on Imgur

imgur.com

 

[Bhadra]

Both side of the arguments have merit.
A North Korea scares USA by testing hydrogen bomb. Did India test one? Our confused approach to defence did not allow a demonstrable nuclear capability. For that we need a test of 200KT weapon.

So here we stand. We are neither here nor there.

Anyway I believe that India does not live in a vacuum. While we are facing the heat in Ladakh; eventually bigger actor (West) will enter the scene. I think India stands a good chance of recovering lost ground in Ladakh.

BUT India better develop institutions to support long term strength in military affairs. The current ones are not adequate.

What I intended to convey was that both are necessary. And that since we have Pihvi and Agni, we can not ignore our conventional capabilities.. that is what I feel had been happening in India..

 

[prasadr14]

dear god,
Even for a moment thinking it could go nuclear!

Neither India nor CCP is insane.
Xitler might act like neutered pig on roids but CCP is basically a way for loot & power.
Guess what happens when things go nuclear..
Everyone and their mother will be looking for Xitler to hang him by his balls,

Any war would be a conventional one & if I have to guess sanity would prevail and there won't be any war.
No one is gonna fire a bullet without taking other major powers into confidence. Right now, all major powers are forked dealing with Chinese Virus - no one has an appetite for any war.