India-China 2020 Border Dispute - Military and Strategic Discussion

[Cheran]

Alhamdulilah

 

[ArgonPrime]

Israel would've been wiped out in the 1960s without a sugga-daddy like the US and a very animated Jewish diaspora in the US. Besides a conveyor belt of money, tech, and arms to Israel, the US kept the Arab world off Israel's back for the most part.

That's why I think Israel's and India's cases aren't comparable, although I agree, India needs to snap out of its NAMardgi, because hum ghanta ukhaad rahe hain with our "strategic autonomy."

Oh, and how many divisions of infantry and armor your so-called American sugga-daddy had sent to assist the Israelis during the war again??

 

[Bhadra]

Do u have any proof to support your claim regarding LCH afaik most of the component used in it are indegeneous.

Give me a list/
My very limited list for LCH is :
twin Ardiden 1H (1,200shp TM333-2C2 Shakti) engines= French Licence produced
impact absorbing landing gear - Indian
‘JedEyes’ helmet-mounted targetting system Israel’s Elbit Systems
THL-20 chin-mounted turret containing a 20mm Nexter Systems-built M-621 gun
MBDA-built Mistral ATAM air-to-air missiles and
twin 2.75-inch rocket launchers
nose-mounted FLIR pod produced Bharat Electronics Ltd will be used for for target acquisition.
radar/laser warning system (this being SaabTech’s MILDS AR-60V2)
light control actuator system - UK-based APPH
piloting inertial reference system (APIRS)- France’s SAFRAN
Other -supplied items on board are the
digital autopilot by SAGEM
Sigma-95L RLG-INS - SAGEM
integrated cockpit display systems (ICDS) by SAGEM
integrated AMLCD-based glass cockpit
the 25kg C-Music directional infra-red countermeasures (DIRCM) suite,
Tadiran SDR-7200AR multi-bandwidth software-defined radio
QuadEye panoramic night vision goggle.
FLIR pod ELBIT Systems-developed COMPASS
QuadEye Panoramic Night Vision Goggle
albeit officially disguised as a ‘consultant’ for the optronic fire-control systems is the actaul integrator rather than DRDO

 

[Bhadra]

Annual report of ministry of transport india 2019-20 road projects in northeast and boundry states with china
View attachment 56299View attachment 56300

There is something wrong in the first list....

 

[cereal killer]

Expansionists also make claims based on their own country's versions of history. I am not debating. Just made a point.

Anyway, I personally believe that taking or trying to take any Muslim dominated area from Pakistan by force would be counter productive. Would just be another pain in the ass like Kashmir Valley.

If we can, we should just take some uninhabited land or areas inhabited by pro India population, if any.

Exactly China shows Arunachal Pradesh in its maps. Any sudden change of status quo is termed as expansionism in modern times.

We've got a unstable valley & then we add more muslims into a already delicate state it might be very very expensive remember how much money we already pump into J&K. All this considering we occupy it in first place defying the odds. It may not be worth the effort especially now maybe in future when our Economy is stable security situation is better & we manage to form some sort of connection with people of GB there.

 

[Synergy]

though he hasn't clarified it, but

we are fighting our own battle and from the beginning, we are on our own. why we are even expecting that somebody else will fight our battle? are we really that weak?

next, there won't be any major policy shift in US post election regarding China. US-China game has already started, be it hot war or cold war, and I don't think US will be in a mood to surrender after US election.
minor adjustments may happen, but major policy shift, sorry, not possible.

 

[DownWithCCP]

I think it's over, all over we have effectively surrendered our land to the chinese, in his speech today, he said that befitting replies have been given along the loc and the lac effectively declaring no intention on further actions, it remains to be seen if we are going to gift more territory in the winter, I feel bad for the army which is bound by the spineless political establishment.

 

[Sanglamorre]

Not much is likely to happen immediately if that is what you expect. The war will likely start from middle east.

We are very close to a world war.

I now firmly think even if war rages around everywhere, GoI will say land of peace and sit the war out lmao. Army will be made to sit around and swat flies while foreign armies stab each other just a few Kms away.

After WW3 is over, India will form the new NAM called MWBCM (Multipolar World With Bi-polar Characteristics Movement) under Jaishankar with vaunted countries of the world like Tonga and Nauru.

 

[DownWithCCP]

I now firmly think even if war rages around everywhere, GoI will say land of peace and sit the war out lmao. Army will be made to sit around and swat flies while foreign armies stab each other just a few Kms away.

After WW3 is over, India will form the new NAM called MWBCM (Multipolar World With Bi-polar Characteristics Movement) under Jaishankar with vaunted countries of the world like Tonga and Nauru.

15 Aug, @Sanglamorre @utubekhiladi time to bitch about inaction lol.

 

[Bhadra]

I think it's over, all over we have effectively surrendered our land to the chinese, in his speech today, he said that befitting replies have been given along the loc and the lac effectively declaring no intention on further actions, it remains to be seen if we are going to gift more territory in the winter, I feel bad for the army which is bound by the spineless political establishment.

My Dear Sir,
Such Despondency arises from not understanding an entire issue in an overall perspective.
China has secured its core national interest in Aksaichin in 1962 through military aggression. Thereafter China has managed a peaceful regime structure in Tibet and on LAC by intimidation and carefully crafted diplomacy of Peace and Tranquility at a very low cost.

Now after 60 years having strengthened its national power, reorganising and modernizing the military, China wants to announce to the world that it is the new overlord. Its knocking on the doors of White House that Xi wants to enters.

Can there be a better way of doing that than attacking its largest and most powerful neighbor India - crushing and humiliating the second largest population in the world, its only competitor in South and East Asia? The same purpose can not be achieved by capturing Vietnam or the Philippines or Myanmar, China can do that overnight but the same purpose will not be achieved.

That is why you find three Chinese divisions lined up on LAC in Ladakh. Ladakh is a place that can effectively neutralize US and Western Technologies and direct intervention prospects. Ladakh is sandwiched between Pakistan and China. Ladakh enures the security of Chines billion-dollar investment in BRI and CPEC. Thus the Chinese have demolished Indian diplomatic edifice of appeasing China in all manners including demilitarising the LAC.

China is intent and hell-bent on military conflict. That is why it has come to Aksaichin with "Gaja Baaja" and undertaking all provocative actions such as Galwan, Pengang Tso and Depsang.

Should India join in and fulfill China's aims? No one can be happier than China and Pakistan with that. The provocation is coming from Nepal, Bhutan, Congress, Communists, Left, Liberals and Islamists in the same manner and with same purpose. Should Modi fulfill their desire?

The only option left with India is not to initiate any War but stop China on its tracks. Hold them, prepare and gain time for enhancing capabilities to defend itself in these difficult times and situations. It it comes to worst 0 India should be able to defend itself and ensure its sovereignty and territorial integrity.

Be a Rambo when you are capable of being one unlike the fanboys of LCH or Arjun who are running a roit with claims to throw out Chinese from Ladakh based on two LSP unarmed LCH flying between Thoise and Ladakh for a joy ride. If China attacks face them,,, If they do not, it is of no use providing them an opportunity..

 

[Synergy]

We will give befitting reply if enemy attacks us: Rajnath Singh

lol, why China (now our enemy at the door) will attack us at this juncture? they are sitting at f4, depsang etc.
probably he has forgotten, now the onus is on us to vacate those areas and for so we have to attack. lol

though it's not over yet, but this kind of statements indicate, now it's the new normal. I hope they won't forget the demand of status quo ante and do something useful to restore that instead of puny scratch like app ban etc.. leave military option for a while, there isn't any steep anti-dumping duty yet.
last but not the least, I don't think any superficial statement by our mea will yield anything at this juncture (read multipolar-bipolar etc etc).

though I'm also a supporter of this govt, but present acts aren't showing anything to be effective in this regard.

I'd like to point out one thing, here I've read many posts/comments about Mr J (eam), he is wrong ab initio as India and China were never neighbours, we've not shared boundary ever.
so his notion is completely wrong and this mentality has to be changed. (my personal opinion).

 

[garg_bharat]

I think it's over, all over we have effectively surrendered our land to the chinese, in his speech today, he said that befitting replies have been given along the loc and the lac effectively declaring no intention on further actions, it remains to be seen if we are going to gift more territory in the winter, I feel bad for the army which is bound by the spineless political establishment.

Well why would Modi change statement since last time?

Let us not make it a humiliation of Indian Army. Such statements are highly irresponsible.

War will happen and should happen at the right time.

 

[DownWithCCP]

lol, why China (now our enemy at the door) will attack us at this juncture? they are sitting at f4, depsang etc.
probably he has forgotten, now the onus is on us to vacate those areas and for so we have to attack. lol

though it's not over yet, but this kind of statements indicate, now it's the new normal. I hope they won't forget the demand of status quo ante and do something useful to restore that instead of puny scratch like app ban etc.. leave military option for a while, there isn't any steep anti-dumping duty yet.
last but not the least, I don't think any superficial statement by our mea will yield anything at this juncture (read multipolar-bipolar etc etc).

though I'm also a supporter of this govt, but present acts aren't showing anything to be effective in this regard.

I'd like to point out one thing, here I've read many posts/comments about Mr J (eam), he is wrong ab initio as India and China were never neighbours, we've not shared boundary ever.
so his notion is completely wrong and this mentality has to be changed. (my personal opinion).

Imho this is the new normal, and everything seems like a done deal, hopefully one day we won't have to take chinese visas to travel to Leh.(it's an exaggeration but I think you understand the point I am trying to make).
What are the chances of us losing more territory in the winter?

 

[nick_indian]

GB is a tempting target. So is Sindh Baluchistan. Muslim is not the issue. Issue is how amenable population is to India's goals.

You think people of GB or Sindh-Balochistan would be happy to be a part of India ? If yes, what makes you feel that way ?

 

[cereal killer]

I think it's over, all over we have effectively surrendered our land to the chinese, in his speech today, he said that befitting replies have been given along the loc and the lac effectively declaring no intention on further actions, it remains to be seen if we are going to gift more territory in the winter, I feel bad for the army which is bound by the spineless political establishment.

Opposition at an all time low. Public rating of Modi at an all time high. Ram Mandir celebration has kept people happy. Galwan Incident has kept public happy.
In China PM Modi video na koi Ghusa hai gave Xi Jinping a victory. He was easily able to sell his narrative.

In SCO PM modi & Xi meet & will ultimately decide which way the next step will go.
Current establishment has no appetite for war.
Modi is not a hotheaded PM. At the moment mere statements can do the job for GOI.

 

[Bhadra]

Imho this is the new normal, and everything seems like a done deal, hopefully one day we won't have to take chinese visas to travel to Leh.(it's an exaggeration but I think you understand the point I am trying to make).
What are the chances of us losing more territory in the winter?

I wish you had asked that question since 1962 or at laest recently since 2000...

Chinese intrusions in Penang Tso and patrol clashes there has been happening for last twenty years. Chinese built a raod upto Finger4 in 1999.
Depsand intrusions and patrol facing each other is a regular feature. In 2013 Chinese sat there for more than a month.
Hot Springs and Gogra have also been Chinese intrusion points.
Only Galwan was a new are of intrsuin which was removed.

Why are you asking questions from Modi only> Why did you not make noise earlier. Why are you blaming present Govt only. Why not ask what India did before?

Because you are a dishonest interested poster who wants to make a political statement. You have no love lost for India or you should have been aware of earlier acts of Congress governments,

 

[tarunraju]

Oh, and how many divisions of infantry and armor your so-called American sugga-daddy had sent to assist the Israelis during the war again??

They sent invaluable CIA intelligence on pretty much everything they had on the Arabs, aid money, and arms.

United States | The Six-Day War

In the years following the 1958 Iraqi revolution, the United States enjoyed friendly, if sometimes tense, relationships with Egypt, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Jordan, Lebanon, Tunisia and Morocco. U.S.-Egyptian relations cooled, however, following President Nasser’s 1962 deployment of...

www.sixdaywar.org

Point remains, without American assistance, Israel was toast.

 

[Shashank Nayak]

My Dear Sir,
Such Despondency arises from not understanding an entire issue in an overall perspective.
China has secured its core national interest in Aksaichin in 1962 through military aggression. Thereafter China has managed a peaceful regime structure in Tibet and on LAC by intimidation and carefully crafted diplomacy of Peace and Tranquility at a very low cost.

Now after 60 years having strengthened its national power, reorganising and modernizing the military, China wants to announce to the world that it is the new overlord. Its knocking on the doors of White House that Xi wants to enters.

Can there be a better way of doing that than attacking its largest and most powerful neighbor India - crushing and humiliating the second largest population in the world, its only competitor in South and East Asia? The same purpose can not be achieved by capturing Vietnam or the Philippines or Myanmar, China can do that overnight but the same purpose will not be achieved.

That is why you find three Chinese divisions lined up on LAC in Ladakh. Ladakh is a place that can effectively neutralize US and Western Technologies and direct intervention prospects. Ladakh is sandwiched between Pakistan and China. Ladakh enures the security of Chines billion-dollar investment in BRI and CPEC. Thus the Chinese have demolished Indian diplomatic edifice of appeasing China in all manners including demilitarising the LAC.

China is intent and hell-bent on military conflict. That is why it has come to Aksaichin with "Gaja Baaja" and undertaking all provocative actions such as Galwan, Pengang Tso and Depsang.

Should India join in and fulfill China's aims? No one can be happier than China and Pakistan with that. The provocation is coming from Nepal, Bhutan, Congress, Communists, Left, Liberals and Islamists in the same manner and with same purpose. Should Modi fulfill their desire?

The only option left with India is not to initiate any War but stop China on its tracks. Hold them, prepare and gain time for enhancing capabilities to defend itself in these difficult times and situations. It it comes to worst 0 India should be able to defend itself and ensure its sovereignty and territorial integrity.

Be a Rambo when you are capable of being one unlike the fanboys of LCH or Arjun who are running a roit with claims to throw out Chinese from Ladakh based on two LSP unarmed LCH flying between Thoise and Ladakh for a joy ride. If China attacks face them,,, If they do not, it is of no use providing them an opportunity..

If China was hell bent on war, it would have done a lot more than sitting tight in no man's land. If China was intent on humiliating India, it would not have allowed India even the fig leaf of saying that LAC perceptions differ. China would have occupied land which was indisputably beyond any Chinese claim line. An example would be sitting on DSDBO Road itself.. or having a battalion sit on Daulat beg oldi runway.. China has done nothing like that. It is only continuing its salami slicing.

 

[tarunraju]

Imho this is the new normal, and everything seems like a done deal, hopefully one day we won't have to take chinese visas to travel to Leh.(it's an exaggeration but I think you understand the point I am trying to make).
What are the chances of us losing more territory in the winter?

No chance. By winter we'll have 8 Rafales, quite a few of our emergency procurements will be fulfilled.

It's the PLA that should be worried. If they can't pull off anything in August-September, they're in trouble come winter.

 

[fire starter]