India-China 2020 Border conflict

[scatterStorm]

I’m trying to understand the goal of the Indian Air Force to provide air cover for the Indian armored forces in the future war with Pakistan. Therefore, India needs a fuel load, a large ammunition load, and su30omki with a certain ground attack capability. Pakistan conducts deep bombing of high-value targets, so it pays more attention to French fighters with strong ground capabilities, such as Mirage 2000 and Rafale fighters.

I think the playbook would be cutting down air supremacy of aggressors, and gaining supremacy to become aggressors for IAF.

PAF can conduct deep bombing raids, but not to a scale or extent to which IAF can. Please keep in mind we still have over 200 MKIs. I am not even talking about Jaguar squadrons here.

The combination of Rafs, Mirages, and MKI alone could do a lot, I am not even considering Jags, Tejas right now.

The goal is to fire BVRs, while consequently gaining air space to push aggressor squadrons to play around limited airspace to the point to gain WVR, and IAF at WVR is pretty darn good.

 

[Marliii]

PAF can conduct deep bombing raids, but not to a scale or extent to which IAF can. Please keep in mind we still have over 200 MKIs. I am not even talking about Jaguar squadrons here.

The combination of Rafs, Mirages, and MKI alone could do a lot, I am not even considering Jags, Tejas right now.

The goal is to fire BVRs, while consequently gaining air space to push aggressor squadrons to play around limited airspace to the point to gain WVR, and IAF at WVR is pretty darn good.

When s400 arrives they never will be.they will like always be on defensive and may run to iran like they did in 71

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Let's set that "to be acquired" to never going to be... we saw what happened when they tried with ... drumrolls:

Spoiler

Wuhan Hongxin Semiconductor Manufacturing Co

See that ghostly factory being abandoned.

A Cautionary Tale For China's Ambitious Chipmakers : NPR

The scale and sophistication with which Chinese cheat is unprecedented. Anyone remember the $2 billion loan backed by fake gold, incidentally also from Wuhan:

Chinese Jeweler Probed for Using Fake Gold Bars for Loans

A Wuhan-based jewelry maker said officials in China are investigating allegations the Nasdaq-listed company used fake gold bars to secure loans from Chinese financial institutions.

www.bloomberg.com

Wuhan appears to be not just known for its virus but also for being a den of high end thieves. Nuke Wuhan, I say.

 

[tommy]

What I dont get is why everyone wants India to beat China or be like China. Why is also there this assumption that we are globally projecting? We simply are not.

This is an important point. We need to stop blabbering about how India will become superpower or how it will overtake china. Even if that were our intentions we need to tone down.
But point to be noted is even though China maybe behind western tech, they are producing quality research in many fields. India needs to up its spending on science and tech atleast. Rest I agree that we should not be taking huge debt to fund unnecessary projects. Let is grow organically.

 

[hit&run]

Anyone who thinks PAF has worked out offensive solution for Indian MKIs, Migs, and Rafales which are backed by formidable Early air warning systems and Air defence grid is a fool of highest order.

Last skirmish their fleet of 30 plus jets disposed for a very small theatre having element of surprise were confronted by regular IAF CAP of less than 5 jets. The mission they envisioned was to bomb last mile CP with engagement time of less than 10 minutes.

How it ended up with PAF’s twin seat F-16 is all recorded on IAF’s Phalcon AWACS large force engagement maps and ELINT systems.

So please cut the crap on deep mission bombing.

How their BVRs were left abandoned after firing was nothing but a modern air warfare joke.

The only deep bombing which should be talked about here is destroying of Balakot terrorist camp by IAF. The bombing killed 200+ hardcore terrorists and their trainers 80 killiometer deep inside Pakistan. Not to mention it took a month for Pakistani establishment to give inside access of the camp to their favourable international journalists.

 

[hit&run]

Just realised above post fits into Pakistan LOC thread. I will move the post soon.

Kindly do not derail the thread with Pakistan related discussion which is not relevant to our current stand against land encroaching Chinese.

 

[IndiaRising]

Anyone who thinks PAF has worked out offensive solution for Indian MKIs, Migs, and Rafales which are backed by formidable Early air warning systems and Air defence grid is a fool of highest order.

Last skirmish their fleet of 30 plus jets disposed for a very small theatre having element of surprise were confronted by regular IAF CAP of less than 5 jets. The mission they envisioned was to bomb last mile CP with engagement time of less than 10 minutes.

How it ended up with PAF’s twin seat F-16 is all recorded on IAF’s Phalcon AWACS large force engagement maps and ELINT systems.

So please cut the crap on deep mission bombing.

How their BVRs were left abandoned after firing was nothing but a modern air warfare joke.

The only deep bombing which should be talked about here is destroying of Balakot terrorist camp by IAF. The bombing killed 200+ hardcore terrorists and their trainers 80 killiometer deep inside Pakistan. Not to mention it took a month for Pakistani establishment to give inside access of the camp to their favourable international journalists.

how will S400 change the equation in our favor? could you please write a detailed post about that?

 

[omaebakabaka]

PAF can conduct deep bombing raids, but not to a scale or extent to which IAF can. Please keep in mind we still have over 200 MKIs. I am not even talking about Jaguar squadrons here.

The combination of Rafs, Mirages, and MKI alone could do a lot, I am not even considering Jags, Tejas right now.

The goal is to fire BVRs, while consequently gaining air space to push aggressor squadrons to play around limited airspace to the point to gain WVR, and IAF at WVR is pretty darn good.

They can only do first strike as suprise and cause damage to some bases as they are so close to border and also if Indian leadership is hesitant but otherwise they don't have much abilities against India to do deep strikes of any sort.

 

[fire starter]

Lol.

 

[IndiaRising]

why has ATAGs not been ordered? it recently completed the high altitude trials in Sikkim. we need to order these beasts in the hundreds

 

[mokoman]

Ye list padho Sab ke sab

View attachment 98140

You can bet that Chinese are going to get dropped from these projects. They pretty much pissed off all the partners in this list, other than Germany, who are great supporters of the CCP, maybe because of their Nazi past - they are comfortable with the CCP‘s brutalities. Expect to take up China’s spot, as we get richer and can spend more on R&D.

its experiments by international researchers on the new Chinese space station ,

chinese are doing THEM a favour by giving access. not otherway around.


i been hearing about Chinese economic collapse for 10+ years ,

you guys can do randi rona 24x7 , reality is chinese will only get stronger. every stat i seen projects them to be largerest domestic market for the future. every western+asian nation will lick their boots for access to that market.

only question left is how fast we can catch up to them , economically . thats only issue .

 

[fire starter]

its experiments by international researchers on the new Chinese space station ,

chinese are doing THEM a favour by giving access. not otherway around.


i been hearing about Chinese economic collapse for 10+ years ,

you guys can do randi rona 24x7 , reality is chinese will only get stronger. every stat i seen projects them to be largerest domestic market for the future. every western+asian nation will lick their boots for access to that market.

only question left is how fast we can catch up to them , economically . thats only issue .

Their collapse will be due to the their misconception about their power and capabilities. I am sure they will do some stupid mistake in coming yrs under the leadership of Xi jinping dumbest president ever.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

its experiments by international researchers on the new Chinese space station ,

chinese are doing THEM a favour by giving access. not otherway around.


i been hearing about Chinese economic collapse for 10+ years ,

you guys can do randi rona 24x7 , reality is chinese will only get stronger. every stat i seen projects them to be largerest domestic market for the future. every western+asian nation will lick their boots for access to that market.

only question left is how fast we can catch up to them , economically . thats only issue .

1. No one is advocating that China will economically collapse. Just that they face a whole lot of financial issues like everyone else who misuses money. And that their defense tech is behind the curve by a decade at least.
2. And what does economically catching up with China mean?

China is just repeating things the west and soviets already did in 1960s. What is new about this space station? It is just a bunch of stuff launched at different times all put together by humans. Yes once we master the human space flight, we can do it too if we have money. We also have the advantage that our launches are cheap. But let’s also remember that the soviets also had an excellent space program despite a miserable economy. So Chinese prowess in space does not speak directly to how well they are doing economically or Vice eras.

 

[johnq]

Fear of what if I may ask?

Also could you explain how the entire PLAN is a decade behind IN.

This, in terms of carrier operations:

Chinese Aircraft Carrier’s Weakness Revealed in Fatal Crash of J-15

www.theepochtimes.com

Why China’s J-15 Fighter Is a Copy of Russia's Su-33 (But It Has a Problem)

That's not good.

nationalinterest.org

This is just one indication of the quality control problems (which are mostly hidden from outsiders) that exist in CCP navy. There is also the lag in radar and ECM technology in comparison to modern western technology: This only becomes apparent once one looks past shiny CCP military propaganda brochures. Note: This also applies to the border in terms of aircraft and air defence radar/ECM technology.

 

[johnq]

Every aerospace industry is in a constant learning curve. At no point can one reach the pinnacle of development their is always new tech and improvements to be made.

The reason they brought the su-35 to gain information on the 117S engine and experience with a super maneuverable thrust vectoring aircraft which they eventually wish to apply in j-16 and j-20.

You cannot compare tejas and AMCA to their chinese counterparts because both j-11 and j-20 are already inducted in good numbers with ongoing serial production while tejas in our case has only recently begun proper production.

I would just like to point out one thing: A lot of the assumptions that you are making, such as the SU-35 was bought only to study the engines, are CCP propaganda talking points, and not the truth. You cannot just reverse engineer engines by looking at them, it's not that simple.
The CCP military most likely bought it to study the SU-35 radar, sensors and avionics in order to copy them and their modes/programming. However the Russians are not stupid, and only gave them severely downgraded versions of the avionics/sensors. Don't go by what is advertised about their super radars and extra T/R modules in CCP military propaganda brochures. If the CCP military was so advanced, why did they buy the S-400 which contains 2 decades old (severely downgraded for export to CCP military) Russian radar technology, which is another 2 decades behind modern western radar technology? CCP's game is to "fake it till you make it." They always overstate their capabilities. Their access to western technology through Israel and computer hacks, etc is also limited, and not as great as they would like you to think. They are good at making it look good at air shows, but in terms of capabilities, CCP military radar/sensor/ECM technology is still far behind the west.
PS, their J-20 is a failure in terms of achieving decent RCS reduction (due to faulty design, less reliable RAM and the radar/radome still being exposed to modern enemy radars), which is why it has been repeatedly tracked by IAF and Taiwanese radars, and its avionics/sensors are also quite outdated and less reliable than what they advertise; but you wouldn't know that from what is advertised in their propaganda brochures. The engines used on them are weak (giving it a crappy thrust to weight ratio) and lack reliability, even more so than the unreliable Russian engines that they are copied from; and J-20s are struggling to operate from high altitude airfields.

 

[lixun]

1. No one is advocating that China will economically collapse. Just that they face a whole lot of financial issues like everyone else who misuses money. And that their defense tech is behind the curve by a decade at least.
2. And what does economically catching up with China mean?

China is just repeating things the west and soviets already did in 1960s. What is new about this space station? It is just a bunch of stuff launched at different times all put together by humans. Yes once we master the human space flight, we can do it too if we have money. We also have the advantage that our launches are cheap. But let’s also remember that the soviets also had an excellent space program despite a miserable economy. So Chinese prowess in space does not speak directly to how well they are doing economically or Vice eras.

Do you know what vinegar represents in Chinese culture

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

Do you know what vinegar represents in Chinese culture

We are not Chinese , so we don't know .
If you know then tell us .

 

[sorcerer]

Strained ties with India, other nations lead to dip in China's weapon export: Report
A report released by Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (Sipri) earlier this year said that India is increasingly becoming self-reliant under its Atmanirbhar Bharat scheme, which is showing results.

India’s arms imports fell 33% between 2011-15 and 2016-20, the Sipri report said. In the same period, China's exports fell 7.8%.

The Foreign Policy article said that snazzy weapons mean a lot less if you don't have friends and this is why the world doesn't want Beijing's fighter jets, according to ANI.

Strained ties with India, other nations lead to 'dip' in China's weapon export

An article on Foreign Policy has analysed why China's weapon export has plunged. It said that snazzy weapons mean a lot less if you don't have friends and this is why the world doesn't want Beijing's fighter jets.

www.hindustantimes.com

fuck china

 

[Mantospace]

Be kept in mind, world dont like Indians (means nationality) . World like chinese. If india going to buy any company in world they will give priority to china.

Dont think india not doing anything but u cant change world.

 

[lixun]

We are not Chinese , so we don't know .
If you know then tell us .

There was once a Chinese emperor and a loyal minister. The emperor wanted to reward the minister with several beautiful girls, but the minister's wife was very angry and ordered his husband to send the girl back, otherwise he would commit suicide, and the emperor would reward him. Give her a pot of poisoned wine, and when the wife drank the poisoned wine, she found out that it was vinegar.