India-China 2020 Border conflict

[Dessert Storm]

France has a number of Mirage 2ks in storage..

Yes they do. I am not aware of the numbers. Those planes if available for sale would have been offered to India. Even if offered, they may not be taken by India for the reason that purchase cost + cost of upgrading would not be cost effective, given the residual life of those aircrafts. We, I think, have real good clarity and confidence on the roadmap to indigenous platforms.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Correct. India cannot consider the PAF in isolation any longer. Rather, you have to look at the PLAAF technology roadmap 5-10 years down the road. That future PLAAF technology/equipment will be available to the PAF and IAF capability has to be planned not for what the PAF/PLAAF have today, but where they will be 10 years down the road. Otherwise the IAF will forever be in an "emergency procurement" mode.

Exactly that's why Tejas timeline is crucial now if Mk2 is delayed again it's a dead end.

If we can't build them fast it's a dead end as beyond 2040 we will need stealthy AMCA like 5+ gen fighter jet.

 

[Blue Water Navy]

I don't want to derail the thread. But couldn't help it.

"The War between PRC and the Republic of China still going on"

 

[Cheran]

Army gears up for winter in eastern Ladakh; biggest operation in decades to stock supplies | India News - Times of India

India News: In its biggest military logistics operation in decades, the Indian Army has rushed tanks, heavy weaponry, ammunition, fuel, food and essential winter

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

In its biggest military logistics operation in decades, the Indian Army has rushed tanks, heavy weaponry, ammunition, fuel, food and essential winter supplies to high-altitude areas in eastern Ladakh to maintain its combat readiness through the treacherous winter of around four months, military sources said on Sunday.

To deal with any Chinese misadventure, India has deployed over three additional Army divisions in eastern Ladakh where the temperature fluctuates between minus five to minus 25 degrees Celsius from October to January.

 

[Dessert Storm]

Army gears up for winter in eastern Ladakh; biggest operation in decades to stock supplies | India News - Times of India

India News: In its biggest military logistics operation in decades, the Indian Army has rushed tanks, heavy weaponry, ammunition, fuel, food and essential winter

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

People who were worried about a sellout after last Commanders meeting, need not worry now. That so called understanding is down the drain now (well and truly).

 

[Tridev123]

Its just not about volumes and stuff, claims are always made but we all know what happened with Fukushima and Chrnobyl and so many other things. They are theoretical and there are more failure points than one can model, secondary failures are one and many and will overwhelm the safety factors of many engineering objects when drastic random (unplanned) forces are applied.....no one really tested this dam for nuclear blast as that is not the primary design factor compared to nuclear bunkers e.t.c and a blast will certainly damage hydraulic structures to operate gates and so on and so many other things that make lot of things inoperable....also I would think the aim would be to take out the power generation first and foremost than collapse the structure.....that is easy to do going for intakes and substations and so. Most turbine halls are underground but not nuclear level underground and they do get flooded pretty often around the world.

I am sure this is a military target for some powers (USA/Russia) as it generates lot of power that is not easily replaceable but for India it may not be based on our capabilities in general and this being too far away.

The dam can be brought down. But nuclear explosives will be more efficient.
There is data present on the impact of TNT on reinforced concrete.
Based on the average thickness of the RCC structure an rough estimate of the amount of TNT required to destroy the structure can be made. I think we would require a very large amount of TNT to do the job which may be impractical.

Of course the US and Russia would have already worked out a plan to bring the 3 Gorges Dam down as it is a high value target. But I suspect they would be using nuclear explosives rather than conventional explosives.

The mother of all bombs Gbu 43/b moab has an explosive power of 11 tonnes of TNT. It is not a penetrator weapon and is primarily an air burst ordnance intended for soft to medium surface targets. Not the most appropriate to target a large RCC structure.

 

[another_armchair]

What are the risks of capital controls(cash withdrawal/transfer limits) kicking in if India ends up fighting a two front war or a full fledged war with China?

 

[destructodisc]

The dam can be brought down. But nuclear explosives will be more efficient.
There is data present on the impact of TNT on reinforced concrete.
Based on the average thickness of the RCC structure an rough estimate of the amount of TNT required to destroy the structure can be made. I think we would require a very large amount of TNT to do the job which may be impractical.

Of course the US and Russia would have already worked out a plan to bring the 3 Gorges Dam down as it is a high value target. But I suspect they would be using nuclear explosives rather than conventional explosives.

The mother of all bombs Gbu 43/b moab has an explosive power of 11 tonnes of TNT. It is not a penetrator weapon and is primarily an air burst ordnance intended for soft to medium surface targets. Not the most appropriate to target a large RCC structure.

Penetrative casing can can be applied to a MOAB like ordinance , just like they did with the "Grand Slam" bomb during WW2( weighed 4 times of MOAB). A 10 ton Ordinance coming down from 8000m should be able to penetrate 30-40 m easily.

 

[Synergy]

PAF a few years back reached a conclusion that IAF should have too reached sometime back.

Sanctions lack of funding made PAF realise that their dreams of having a truly modern air force was never going to work.

They decided to tone down a bit and went with quantity has a quality of its own.

JF-17 is a inferior aircraft nothing much special about it.

But with block to block launch and regular updates with in house repair capability they have managed to reform their air force quite a bit.

They cannot gain air superiority over IAF not now not in the future but that was not their plan.

Their plan is to divert resources of the IAF too such an extent that they break on one front.

Over time china has been building airbases to deploy PlAAF in heavy numbers.

In the coming years IAF will indeed face problems as a preemptive strike on our bases by china can be devastating.

We don't have the numbers to shore up our squadron's and losses will have profound effect on the scope of our operations.

IAF has been trying to mitigate this problem through purchases of air defence systems and now the unified air command but a lot more still needs to be done.

The issue will really prop up when both jaguar and mig-21 retire.

We are looking at 200 aircraft being retired in the next few years.

Honestly I consider both mig-21 and jaguar obsolete both the airframes are old and jaguar's engine is underpowered both dont stand much of a chance against decent air defence systems.

They can still be useful in combined ops but their time has come.

IAF has a very difficult choice to make in the future let go of their dreams for high end fighters filling the whole of airforce and concentrate more on shoring up numbers or else we will he looking at parity not dominance on both fronts and many others factors come into play.

You don't want to leave so much to chance.

that's why I was pointing to 180/216 used F16s as mmrca/mrfa for 10/15 years or so. be it only for defensive purpose.

but thankfully nobody in position will think like that.

 

[Cactus09]

Govt of India exploring options to buy Embraer's commercial aircraft biz

One of the arrangements the government is considering is a tie-up with a sovereign fund to finance the deal

wap.business-standard.com

Govt of India exploring options to buy Embraer's commercial aircraft biz

Please please please buy this.

 

[omaebakabaka]

The dam can be brought down. But nuclear explosives will be more efficient.
There is data present on the impact of TNT on reinforced concrete.
Based on the average thickness of the RCC structure an rough estimate of the amount of TNT required to destroy the structure can be made. I think we would require a very large amount of TNT to do the job which may be impractical.

Of course the US and Russia would have already worked out a plan to bring the 3 Gorges Dam down as it is a high value target. But I suspect they would be using nuclear explosives rather than conventional explosives.

The mother of all bombs Gbu 43/b moab has an explosive power of 11 tonnes of TNT. It is not a penetrator weapon and is primarily an air burst ordnance intended for soft to medium surface targets. Not the most appropriate to target a large RCC structure.

Yes, nuclear makes more sense since its in Central China and not easily reachable for MOAB or FOAB's unless someone physically occupies China in which case destruction of dam does not make sense. But if using conventional one can still disable the dam with precision conventional weapons but you are correct, it would not be wise to use conventional to burst the dam or go after it. with 1t or 2 t explosive warhead. I am sure CCP will install AD around it for sure. Taking out power generation and leaving the dam in crippled state would be what attackers would plan as that would be more expensive for the CCP to hold it from coming down like a wonded soldier burden.

 

[Synergy]

Look India cannot provide physical support.. Coz no alliance with Armenia. However if Pakistan tries to help their brethren then its a different matter.
Diplomatically we all know the answer.

nobody needs any alliance to provide physical support. only balls and will power etc are needed.

 

[Sanglamorre]

Govt of India exploring options to buy Embraer's commercial aircraft biz

One of the arrangements the government is considering is a tie-up with a sovereign fund to finance the deal

wap.business-standard.com

Govt of India exploring options to buy Embraer's commercial aircraft biz

Please please please buy this.

Why the commercial arm?

 

[Desi Aam]

Yes, nuclear makes more sense since its in Central China and not easily reachable for MOAB or FOAB's unless someone physically occupies China in which case destruction of dam does not make sense. But if using conventional one can still disable the dam with precision conventional weapons but you are correct, it would not be wise to use conventional to burst the dam or go after it. with 1t or 2 t explosive warhead. I am sure CCP will install AD around it for sure. Taking out power generation and leaving the dam in crippled state would be what attackers would plan as that would be more expensive for the CCP to hold it from coming down like a wonded soldier burden.

Do read up about the Dam Buster Sq of the RAF during [email protected] posted a video of thiers as well.

busting a dam open does;nt need nukes...A couple of well placed hits will be more than enough...!

 

[Knowitall]

Why the commercial arm?

Because GOI decided to shoot itself in the foot and blacklist the company.

 

[omaebakabaka]

Do read up about the Dam Buster Sq of the RAF during [email protected] posted a video of thiers as well.

busting a dam open does;nt need nukes...A couple of well placed hits will be more than enough...!

I read the book when I was a kid, that was properller aircraft age....3 gorges is something else. Not physically possible for a bomber or aircraft to go on a run in Central China....

Also if I remember correctly, there was a doubt in the attack plan on whether it would even succeed. It was a good read at the time....

 

[Cactus09]

Because GOI decided to shoot itself in the foot and blacklist the company.

AKA udta teer g*nd me liya hai.

 

[Sentimental Patriot]

I don't want to derail the thread. But couldn't help it.

"The War between PRC and the Republic of China still going on"

The divisions between the ROC and the PRC are largely over-hyped, don't expect anything to materialise there. Here is an informative video on this topic.

 

[Dessert Storm]

that's why I was pointing to 180/216 used F16s as mmrca/mrfa for 10/15 years or so. be it only for defensive purpose.

but thankfully nobody in position will think like that.

You make a reasonable point as far as used is concerned. However, we will need to create full training and support infrastructure for the Fs. The used ones should be the kind in our inventory (which is difficult to get) except maybe Mig 29s.
If jets are needed for defence, rather than used, it's better we invest in creating more assembly lines for MK1A.

 

[patriots]

Losses of Azerbaijan in Armenian strikes today: 20 UAVs 3 Helicopters 30 Tank
In day 1 of war
Then think what will be losses ..if India china go for war.