India-China 2020 Border conflict

[Vande1947]

@Hellfire is a true Indian, he spends more time looking inward just like million others on SM rather than finding loopholes in our adversaries & friends which is hardly done by even a hundred people in the country.

There is no harm in looking 'inward' provided that is matched by looking 'outward'.
But, to do so, we as a nation need to have a cohesive, robust, futuristic long term goal.
Do we have that goal? I do not think so.
To even dream of that goal, many threads that are right now singular pieces need to intertwine and mesh together--industrial policy, agricultural policy, land acquisition, infrastructure, scientific establishments, schools and higher education centres of learning etc etc. Do we have this synergy?
What will bring about this clear thinking---first and foremost a political will that runs across cross party lines that India is paramount; the development of the country is paramount; the interests of the country are paramount; the borders that we believe are the desired borders are sacrosanct.
For that we truly need to be one nation. The political parties will not be able to sign different tune if every citizen has that national consciousness, that inbred patriotism. This does not mean chest thumping or drum beating ( that has it's place as well but in a different context ).
The bureaucracy will also be forced to change because they come from the same milieu.

When education, science, business, bureaucracy and politics come together, only then will we succeed in achieving this synergy. This has to be a long term plan, a generational plan. But, the seeds have to be sown at some stage. Some have been, others not so.

Simultaneously, This all needs to feed into a defence budget that rises by a fixed amount above inflation every year, come what may ( that is why political will is important ).

The foreign service needs to be reoriented to serve the national goal ( that is what it is meant to do, but sadly does not on most occasions ). They have to champion the cause of Indian aspiration, cultivate new friends, expand our industrial access, keep an eye on our enemies and be proactive in thwarting their designs. How many of our ambassadors do that? How many of our attaches do that? At grassroots level of a citizen/expat, Go to any embassy/outpost, the feeling one comes back with is that they are doing us a favour by doing their job. How can India command respect when foreigners see how Indians are treated by their own fellow Indians?

Armed with this plan, the military doctrine will be shaped for the next 30 years. Batch after batch of officers will need to work towards that goal, to lay the building blocks one by one. Only then will we succeed in reclaiming what we believe is to be truly ours.

Otherwise, it will be the same story of mistakes, reactive measures, loss of land, loss of precious defence personnel lives and a country divided across many fault lines.

 

[Tumba]

I have a different take,

If all it takes for US to go all rogue on us was just change in govt, then it was wise for us to stay away from them strategically.

What's the point of being in Quad or something even more appealing....if Democrats would continue their support for Pakis and Chinkies?

Only hope here is that foreign policy of most countries are a continuum irrespective of changes in govt.
If this is not true, diplomats would have a really tough time negotiating.

Look at this this way, if Biden govt tries to act smart with India,
It's not Biden govt doing it but US govt doing it....
At which point US (Biden govt) would lose faith of Modi govt, not sure who would come out worse in that case.

Indian govt already tried to connect with kamala and co. Demorats were always against strong govt in India ... feelers are not good Modi tried to put his weight watever that pulls in USA to support Trump there was a reason for that...

 

[Satya Indra]

I have a different take,

If all it takes for US to go all rogue on us was just change in govt, then it was wise for us to stay away from them strategically.

What's the point of being in Quad or something even more appealing....if Democrats would continue their support for Pakis and Chinkies?

Only hope here is that foreign policy of most countries are a continuum irrespective of changes in govt.
If this is not true, diplomats would have a really tough time negotiating.

Look at this this way, if Biden govt tries to act smart with India,
It's not Biden govt doing it but US govt doing it....
At which point US (Biden govt) would lose faith of Modi govt, not sure who would come out worse in that case.

It's not about just change in the govt. It's kind of people running it, especially in the case of Kamala and Biden. Also, these Demo candidates have very close links with the Pak community, and with Biden taking a cut from Chinese, it looks very bad as of now.

Also, once you are a strategic partner of the USA, it'll not become rouge that easily. We are not at that status yet, 4 more years of Trump would have definitely brought us a lot closer.

 

[prasadr14]

It's not about just change in the govt. It's kind of people running it, especially in the case of Kamala and Biden. Also, these Demo candidates have very close links with the Pak community, and with Biden taking a cut from Chinese, it looks very bad as of now.

Also, once you are a strategic partner of the USA, it'll not become rouge that easily. We are not at that status yet, 4 more years of Trump would have definitely brought us a lot closer.

We are already partners at this point.
Couple of weeks back we signed very important long term strategic agreements with them & started the process for Quad.

If Biden govt dares to support Pakis or Chinkies after this - then my point of us staying away from US stands.

 

[Tumba]

We are already partners at this point.
Couple of weeks back we signed very important long term strategic agreements with them & started the process for Quad.

If Biden govt dares to support Pakis or Chinkies after this - then my point of us staying away from US stands.

majority of pacts are multi party in nature... so even in case demorats puts India into thr brilliant afpak policy theatre ... India can connect with other members for critical international support and even tech.

 

[Lancer]

First surgical strike in Sep 2016 happened while obama was president, nothing happened.

That surgical strike was a big deal considering history/context of India and Pakistan; especially post J&K insurgency and Pak nuclearization - but overall it wasn't such a huge deal.

I seriously doubt Obama would have been as cooperative/quiet as Trump on something big like Balakot - and the potential escalation spiral afterwards.

Either way, India had a golden chance to really do something to Pak under Trump, I personally think India didn't make the maximum possible use of it; but in the long run, as there are Democrat Presidents (with massive internal party pressure on them from Far Left to talk and act against India) - India's approach will basically have to be "Yea, we're gonna fuck Pakistan up if we see fit, mind your own business." Otherwise this isn't gonna be resolved in another 70 yrs either.

 

[Lancer]

China has tasted blood with the current border situation + election situation in US. Be ready for a conflict.


Breaking: China suspends all kinds of Indian visas/resident permits

 

[ezsasa]

There is no harm in looking 'inward' provided that is matched by looking 'outward'.
But, to do so, we as a nation need to have a cohesive, robust, futuristic long term goal.
Do we have that goal? I do not think so.
To even dream of that goal, many threads that are right now singular pieces need to intertwine and mesh together--industrial policy, agricultural policy, land acquisition, infrastructure, scientific establishments, schools and higher education centres of learning etc etc. Do we have this synergy?
What will bring about this clear thinking---first and foremost a political will that runs across cross party lines that India is paramount; the development of the country is paramount; the interests of the country are paramount; the borders that we believe are the desired borders are sacrosanct.
For that we truly need to be one nation. The political parties will not be able to sign different tune if every citizen has that national consciousness, that inbred patriotism. This does not mean chest thumping or drum beating ( that has it's place as well but in a different context ).
The bureaucracy will also be forced to change because they come from the same milieu.

When education, science, business, bureaucracy and politics come together, only then will we succeed in achieving this synergy. This has to be a long term plan, a generational plan. But, the seeds have to be sown at some stage. Some have been, others not so.

Simultaneously, This all needs to feed into a defence budget that rises by a fixed amount above inflation every year, come what may ( that is why political will is important ).

The foreign service needs to be reoriented to serve the national goal ( that is what it is meant to do, but sadly does not on most occasions ). They have to champion the cause of Indian aspiration, cultivate new friends, expand our industrial access, keep an eye on our enemies and be proactive in thwarting their designs. How many of our ambassadors do that? How many of our attaches do that? At grassroots level of a citizen/expat, Go to any embassy/outpost, the feeling one comes back with is that they are doing us a favour by doing their job. How can India command respect when foreigners see how Indians are treated by their own fellow Indians?

Armed with this plan, the military doctrine will be shaped for the next 30 years. Batch after batch of officers will need to work towards that goal, to lay the building blocks one by one. Only then will we succeed in reclaiming what we believe is to be truly ours.

Otherwise, it will be the same story of mistakes, reactive measures, loss of land, loss of precious defence personnel lives and a country divided across many fault lines.

Sure, but what’s my comment on hellfire got to do with national level macro state of affairs?

 

[prasadr14]

China has tasted blood with the current border situation + election situation in US. Be ready for a conflict.


Breaking: China suspends all kinds of Indian visas/resident permits

All for India - Chinki war.
Let them come see taste how they fare on foreign soil.

It might just give us a chance to liberate Tibet.

 

[hit&run]

The best way forward for India is to show diplomatic indifference if not hostility and intent to decouple from America’s Indo-Pacific security calculus.

The American security establishment has invested a lot in Indo-Pacific strategy of containment of China. Low on budget and looking for more allies they wanted us to invest in the security of sea trade lanes also.

Also the leftist fraud Biden who has turned America into a sham democracy; has no moral standing to lecture us on anything. His pimps at CNN have already started to shift the blame on Republicans. Being a good watcher of their internal politics we can always hit them back in the same kind.

Now when his White House administration will set itself on diversion course with India we can not only use their poor domestic optics but can always pull them back by tightening the Pentagon.

Decoupling from Indo-Pacific will also negatively effect Quad momentum which in return will create pressure back on the USA.

Not to mention when our focus will be to play the hard ball, they will use their Joker Pakistan to unsettle us. In my understanding Pakistani terror enterprise has been already activated as we speak.

Obviously, the call has to be amicably made by all American stakeholders on India. Letting China run amok will later come back to hurt them more.

As far as Pakistan is a concerned then Modi has to set a comprehensive ambush and wait for them to commit a mistake. My years of following Indian defence readiness I see no reason whatsoever that can stop us screwing them at whim now. Biden and her witch will be made rub their hands in desperation waiting to connect a phone call with Modi.

 

[Tumba]

China has tasted blood with the current border situation + election situation in US. Be ready for a conflict.


Breaking: China suspends all kinds of Indian visas/resident permits

NEFA border has just 10-15 km snow line in middle of winters at many points ...will probably see chini aggression once snows become firm... ladakh will fo into permafrost after nov so little chance of movement thr...
lameduck trump admin in USa will be of no help... during winters nowsz

 

[ezsasa]

China has tasted blood with the current border situation + election situation in US. Be ready for a conflict.


Breaking: China suspends all kinds of Indian visas/resident permits

India suspended Chinese visas in Feb 2020 in view of the pandemic, they are now suspending our visas in view of the pandemic.

 

[another_armchair]

There are hawks among Demoncrats too. They won't give away their Numba #1 place without some token resistance. That would mean death of the American dream for the whole lot and Chinese treat them all with equal contempt regardless of race, skin color etc. Wait till they come for their pet dogs and cats...

 

[hit&run]

China has tasted blood with the current border situation + election situation in US. Be ready for a conflict.


Breaking: China suspends all kinds of Indian visas/resident permits

PLA is not ready. Their posturing is long term land grab not fighting a kinetic military offense.

India on the other hand is ready to throw them out.

Suspending all visas may have to do with Covid or more trade restrictions or some leak on canceling the of 5G.

Nevertheless Let us wait what they are trying to signal.

 

[Tumba]

PLA is not ready. Their posturing is long term land grab not fighting a kinetic military offense.

Indian on the other hand is ready to throw them out.

Suspending all visas may have to do with Covid or more trade restrictions or some leak on canceling the of 5G.

Nevertheless Let us wait what they are trying to signal.

somebody in this forum correctly observed PLA general mentality to play chinese checkers ... try to occupy any land they can ... the nature they can not change... India do need to be prepare to go one notch above this time.

 

[Suhaldev]

Uncertainties around election was gauged by MEA, everyone was jumping to join and take everything USA is providing but world doesn't work that way. Till now India is carefully maneuvering in such a delicated situation.

We were alone and still alone, it takes time to do everything. Future is uncertain and I hope this uncertainty ensures preparedness.

 

[hit&run]

There are hawks in Demoncrats too. They won't give away their Numba #1 place without some token resistance. That would mean death of the American dream for the whole lot and Chinese treat them all with equal contempt regardless of race, skin color etc. Wait till they come for their pet dogs and cats...

I am sorry there are no hawks left with Democrats or their supporter base. A small sample is visible at WAB. They all have turned into transvestite librandu pimps of China. Even on Iran their balls have dried into mustard seeds. Not to mention now they utter every thing defensively and seek support from members from other countries like Australia, UK, etc., who behave like loyal house slave Stephen of Django unchained and give them tips how to censor POV on hawkish security policy.

 

[Suhaldev]

I am sorry there are no hawks left with Democrats or their supporter base. A small sample is visible at WAB. They all have turned into transvestite librandu pimps of China. Even on Iran their balls have dried into mustard seeds. Not to mention now they utter every thing defensively and seek support from members from other countries like Australia, UK, etc., who behave like loyal house slave Stephen of Django unchained and give them tips how to censor POV on hawkish security policy.

Let the Biden select his team, hard action against China is unlikely unless Taiwan is invaded (hk gone already under trump) but another blast in USA which is likely to happen will be a game changer.

 

[Cheran]

Let the Biden select his team, hard action against China is unlikely unless Taiwan is invaded (hk gone already under trump) but another blast in USA which is likely to happen will be a game changer.

Any idea as to who will external affairs, defense etc. Any names floating around?

 

[another_armchair]

I am sorry there are no hawks left with Democrats or their supporter base. A small sample is visible at WAB. They all have turned into transvestite librandu pimps of China. Even on Iran their balls have dried into mustard seeds. Not to mention now they utter every thing defensively and seek support from members from other countries like Australia, UK, etc., who behave like loyal house slave Stephen of Django unchained and give them tips how to censor POV on hawkish security policy.

If memory serves me correctly, Obama went after Russia with the zeal of a mastiff. Does Russian Christian orthodoxy have anything to do with it? Obama did everything in his power to needle Russia while capitulating like slaves in front of the Saudi's and Chinese. His cronies went out of their way to keep us out of Afghanistan dealings too.