India-China 2020 Border conflict

[Tridev123]

This is why it becomes hard to trust our defence orgs, if one can build a supersonic and claim it as indigenous then logically subsonic should be multitudes easier as tolerance level of everything becomes a bit lower. Bramhos is Onix rebranded for the most part with some software tweaks and come guidance refinements. It is hard to understand delays in subsonic missile designs or manufacturing unless its funding but I think GOI will throw money if they have the product that is viable. Correct me if I am wrong.

Just think of it.
We build complex ICBM's, Agni 5 but do not have a single indigenous subsonic Anti Ship Cruise Missile.
Baffling.
All of our ships and submarines use imported ASCM's. I don't know if the Brahmos can be called fully indigenous.

 

[omaebakabaka]

Just think of it.
We build complex ICBM's, Agni 5 but do not have a single indigenous subsonic Anti Ship Cruise Missile.
Baffling.
All of our ships and submarines use imported ASCM's. I don't know if the Brahmos can be called fully indigenous.

I guess we can by default assign this to babus but most are technocrats or supposed to be experts in fields heading these orgs. ISRO seems to be a bit honest comparatively.

 

[Bhadra]

British surely used Martial race theory as a means to divide people... But that indeed created a unstoppable fighting force. That's why IA still follows that concept. Tried & tested.

Indian Army really does not follow British Model in Totality. But a modified model..

Recruitment in the Armed Forces is carried out on the recruitable male population ratio of the state based on policy of Union of India. Say for example the Indian Army requires 100 recruits it will recruit 20 from UP based on their population, five from Tamilnadu, one from Nagaland. Shortfall from a state such as Gujrat is then adjusted among other states.

It is after recruitment as Macro numbers that the recruits are divided into Regimental Groups as per their vacancies. A Sikh would be sent to SIKH REGIMENT and another would be sent to ASC depending on Vacancies.
Regimentation is applicable only to half the Army for the Arms and Supporting Arms - that is Infantry, Armoured Corps, Mechanised Infantry, Artillery and Engineers. Rest 50 per cent of the Army, entire IAF and IN has no regimentation. Their soldiers are all India based.

Regimentation is more of a regional consideration rather than any martial race. ARJPUT Regiment hardly have 10 per cent Rajputs but soldiers from Ganga Jamuni including Brahmins, Gujjar, Ahirs. Garhwal Rifles has soldiers from Garhwal region irrespective of their castes, Rajputana Rifles has an equal number of Jats and Rajputs from Rajasthan.

The grouping is carried out for similarity of food habits, cultural ethos, language, region heights, weights, physical characteristics to bring in cohesion amongst soldiers of fighting units. That also facilitate administrative ease. There is nothing called martial racism there, Rajputs, Gujjars, Jats, Ahirs, Brahmins, Kayastha and Bhumihar all fight soldier to soldier in Rajput Regiment.

Those who comment on the Indian Army must know it first, know the policies and how this well-ioled machine works to save their arses rather than shoot in the air about their personal prejudices and lack of knowledge.

That man who walks there around Chusul seem to be a simple beast but things are more well organised than that.

 

[Lancer]

Not really, only thing clear from your argument is your hesitation in accepting the reality that Nepal is handed to China by our UPA 1 and 2 on silver plate.

So your solution is to let China complete that process. Brilliant.

They have sent their army to border with Uttarakhand, what more do you need to accept that it is real.....I am 50% sure if Oli is allowed to stay then he will take a stand on gurkhas serving in IA (he will get domestic resistance) but it depends on what his masters make him do

They've sent them in an effort to draw a reaction from India which turns Nepal into a victim; bolstering Oli's position at home, and weakening India's moral high ground vis a vis China both in the international arena, and in terms of the "Great Game" unfolding in Nepal.

rest is all your hope on RAW replacing Oli....we will see and i hope that it happens.

There are A LOT of levers India could be pulling. India has been trying to take a soft touch, especially after the ~2015 Blockade backfired, but India has several options. We've toppled plenty of governments in the neighborhood, and not all of those were physically connected Hindu countries where a Royal Family was connected to an Indian Math or where the Military has strong ties to the Indian one.

Why would IA recruit from Nepal if it becomes a full blown puppet of CCP at which point they will ban that process anyway?

Fighting sub-conventionally for Nepal is precisely so that it DOESN'T become a full blown puppet.

Hindus were the number 1 traitors to hindus historically speaking. Every hindu empire lost due to that and the tradition continues....with congis and left. This is to your ideologically different comment....

That was back when the entire subcontinent was fractured into small regional states based on very narrow identity categories. And those who betrayed each other usually did so for some sort of bribe/greed or petty rivalry (which would seem silly in retrospect) - none of them were ideological, existential foes driven by the intense desire to completely wipe out the others' "race" lock stock and barrel.

Such small issues are easier to manage.

 

[fire starter]

 

[shashankk]

LAC row: As Generals meet today, MEA tries to keep talks wit ..

This is not very goo IMHO. more like keeping an eye on military.

 

[omaebakabaka]

So your solution is to let China complete that process. Brilliant.

Until we see the results of GOI and RAW, default is current trajectory which is not good. History does not predict current and current does not predict future quantitatively speaking. Its generally in hindsight explained in a causative manner usually......RAW better up its game as Oli is tossing Xi's salad everyday.

They've sent them in an effort to draw a reaction from India which turns Nepal into a victim; bolstering Oli's position at home, and weakening India's moral high ground vis a vis China both in the international arena, and in terms of the "Great Game" unfolding in Nepal.

Doesn't matter what root cause it is, India has to send SSB to Nepal border which is a diversion for IA and another threat direction and dilution of our resources. There is only one way to look at this....ANTI-INDIA. I am not promoting anti-Nepali view point, I am stating the current reality.

There are A LOT of levers India could be pulling. India has been trying to take a soft touch, especially after the ~2015 Blockade backfired, but India has several options. We've toppled plenty of governments in the neighborhood, and not all of those were physically connected Hindu countries where a Royal Family was connected to an Indian Math or where the Military has strong ties to the Indian one.

My first explanation about history prediction applies here too.....waiting for the results before its too late. I really hope we replace that pig.

Fighting sub-conventionally for Nepal is precisely so that it DOESN'T become a full blown puppet.

From what I see, there are no signs we are doing anything atleast in the open so far that is causing Oli pain other than some Chinese intrusion stories. Hope some lair is laid.

That was back when the entire subcontinent was fractured into small regional states based on very narrow identity categories. And those who betrayed each other usually did so for some sort of bribe/greed or petty rivalry (which would seem silly in retrospect) - none of them were ideological, existential foes driven by the intense desire to completely wipe out the others' "race" lock stock and barrel.

Now we have congis and left who are totally anti-national and anti-hindu for sure.

I don't think we disagree, you are hoping for best and I am stating the current reality and joining you on the hope side.

 

[tarunraju]

A C-17 ran into MLW (maximum landing weight) issues and had to dump fuel near Leh.

It was carrying too much Parle-G along with that ghee-soaked MEA babu being sent by Delhi to make territorial concessions.

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

So your solution is to let China complete that process. Brilliant.



They've sent them in an effort to draw a reaction from India which turns Nepal into a victim; bolstering Oli's position at home, and weakening India's moral high ground vis a vis China both in the international arena, and in terms of the "Great Game" unfolding in Nepal.



There are A LOT of levers India could be pulling. India has been trying to take a soft touch, especially after the ~2015 Blockade backfired, but India has several options. We've toppled plenty of governments in the neighborhood, and not all of those were physically connected Hindu countries where a Royal Family was connected to an Indian Math or where the Military has strong ties to the Indian one.



Fighting sub-conventionally for Nepal is precisely so that it DOESN'T become a full blown puppet.



That was back when the entire subcontinent was fractured into small regional states based on very narrow identity categories. And those who betrayed each other usually did so for some sort of bribe/greed or petty rivalry (which would seem silly in retrospect) - none of them were ideological, existential foes driven by the intense desire to completely wipe out the others' "race" lock stock and barrel.

Such small issues are easier to manage.

We need infrastructure boost in India Nepal border areas like we did in kashmir
that will also help in better border management

 

[omaebakabaka]

A C-17 ran into MLW (maximum landing weight) issues and had to dump fuel near Leh.

It was carrying too much Parle-G along with that ghee-soaked MEA babu being sent to make territorial concessions.

Hopefully no damage, isn't all of this computerized now replaceing the loadmaster?

 

[Lancer]

A C-17 ran into MLW (maximum landing weight) issues and had to dump fuel near Leh.

It was carrying too much Parle-G along with that ghee-soaked MEA babu being sent to make territorial concessions.

Now that the Tibet front will be much more active, we should really look into either getting 2nd hand C-17's from friendly countries, or identify a 2nd best aircraft that's close enough, and go for bigger numbers of those.

C-17's, C-130's and Chinooks are all really proving their worth right now.

 

[Blue Water Navy]

Can anybody share some light on the PLA rifles which will be type 95? How much effective it is actually?

And I know many militaries use the bullpup rifles. But bullpup rifle in a conventional war. How much damage can it do?

 

[tarunraju]

Hopefully no damage, isn't all of this computerized now replaceing the loadmaster?

It was a joke. Hopefully IAF will wet-lease a USAF C-5 for the next round of talks.

 

[Lancer]

I don't think we disagree, you are hoping for best and I am stating the current reality and joining you on the hope side.

I suppose we can leave it at that.

 

[garg_bharat]

Weird comment, who said the Army doesn't accept all castes? There should be standards though, otherwise the Armed Forces will become like the Public Sector w/ quotas.

If anything, the Army has slightly diluted its quality in favor of being diverse and inclusive by capping recruitment from certain groups.

The best way is to create more regiments from areas least represented in the Army. I am OK with regimental system as soldier is more comfortable in it. But there are large areas of India which have fairly low representation in Army.

Army = Political power

The above formula has held for ages.

 

[etantra]

Well, may be am in minority but I am not impressed with Indian intelligence agencies which let the communist threat from maoist nuisance into political power in Nepal, why should I trust them any more now? So far no signs.....recently things are happening in the anti-India domain more than anything.
No one is speaking less of Gurkhas but a lot of them are from a different country and if that country is anti-India then it does not make sense to recruit from them due to trust issues. Hope it does not get to that.....same as no Muslim regiments were formed in India anymore.
Lots of regiments fought at equal level or even better than gurkhas from India before (different kingdoms) and after British.

Intel was sabotaged during those times..

UPA need support of Indian communists and they ensured that Nepal fell to communists.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Weird comment, who said the Army doesn't accept all castes? There should be standards though, otherwise the Armed Forces will become like the Public Sector w/ quotas.

If anything, the Army has slightly diluted its quality in favor of being diverse and inclusive by capping recruitment from certain groups.

So you say quality can be maintained only if hired from certain castes. No wonder I am seeing you supporting Martial race theory. Wow. Wonderful to know that people with antiquated beliefs system still in this century commenting in this forum as if caste system is nothing.

 

[Sanglamorre]

This 'martial race' peddling needs to stop. This is the same bs that made Pakis think 2 Muslim= 10 Hindu crap.

If tomorrow Oli blocks Gorkha recruitment and recalls back all Gorkhas, I guess large parts of IA will just roll over in case there's a battle with them since MArTiAL RAcE OmG SO PoWeRFUL So SuPErIOR. Like the other poster said, sounds like a contrived way to say other 'non-martial' race Indians should do aarti of martial race ones.

It made sense back in days of swords, spears and early guns because training times were too long and cultures with martial influences were more inclined to teach their children these from birth or were ready to accept massive sacrifices in war.

Not anymore the case these days when training time has been drastically cut short due to modern guns and relative era of peace. Martial to non-martial, everyone did disgraceful rona dhona in case of Abhinandan.

Just so we're clear this martial race so stronk mindset is also what fuels a lot of hill tribe animosity/disdain for plainsmen and is absolutely the crux of Nepali misunderstanding that our army is unable to function properly without them and gives them the itch to try use that as leverage once a while.

Current Nepal is not the Hindu Kingdom we had historical relations with. We already get so many intrusions of terrorists and agent via Nepal route. If push comes to shove we indeed have to rethink our relation with Nepal. You can't have access to the army from a country that has fallen to Chinese (if it happens) and free entry and easy citizenship.

Martial race or not, we have to defend our lands from would be invaders. Be it Chinese, or Chinese colonised Nepalis in future.

 

[Lancer]

So you say quality can be maintained only if hired from certain castes. No wonder I am seeing you supporting Martial race theory. Wow. Wonderful to know that people with antiquated beliefs system still in this century commenting in this forum as if caste system is nothing.

Here comes the diva ready to throw a fit.

Nobody can help those looking to get offended and twist others' words towards that end.

Funny how the casteist Lancer has nothing but respect for various OBC martial groups.

 

[Lancer]

The best way is to create more regiments from areas least represented in the Army. I am OK with regimental system as soldier is more comfortable in it. But there are large areas of India which have fairly low representation in Army.

There have to be enough recruits with both the interest, and capability of matching standards in order to start such a regiment.

And while the army decided to retain most region/community based regiments, I'm not so sure if that's the template they want to follow for any new regiments to be created.