India-China 2020 Border conflict

Sanglamorre

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As per the situation, the Chinese also waiting for the winter...Not for Indian border but to invade Taiwan...If we want to take the risk that time,then Aksai chin will be ours....But as per reports, no movements of our reserve force though....Only the mirror deployment happened, subjecting a pure defensive posture.Now here if we decide to take an action to Aksai chin, we will definitely face some action from our beloved western front...That will be become a truly 2 front war scenario...
Even if all Chinese and Paki troops vacate PoK and Aksai Chin after a grand declaration, IA will not get clearance from GoI to go and sit on these areas.

That's how much backbone lacking GoI is. Past or Present.

It's truly sad that our previous Govts have been so pusillanimous that what the current one is doing, being merely defensive, is considered being tough and never done before.
 

cereal killer

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Yes they are persistent bastards but the longer they stay in Ladakh without a conflict, the more it will appear that they are just there to defend. That would be a huge morale booster for Indian army - imagine a foe whom the Indian and Chinese media were building up as world conquerers taking environmental casualties in Ladakh in defensive mode.

For the Indian army, the Chinese are currently the main threat so any deployment on the Chinese border is lots of good lessons learnt, operational strategies tested etc. It would have been good for the army to do such a wargame anyways but the politicians and babus would always have been timid with their strategic restraint nonsense. Hope the Indian army uses this as a golden opportunity to completely test all their operational doctrines and strategies against China.

Money is not much of a concern, the Indian software exports are mostly free money for the Indian government and just the growth there can take care of the deployment costs. Most software is in mission critical systems and Indian software will not be very impacted by Covid (unlike Chinese products many of which are discretionary purchases)
No its not such a great scenario for India.. Not sure how much strain it puts on China economically but we are going through some serious slump through there. Having two active borders is never an ideal scenario.
We have an active Paki front that we have somehow managed to control & is well within our spending capabilities since it was believed to premier threat.
Now Active China border which is very long can put too much strain on Indian economy & defence budgets. Imagine going through that like a decade. No country in the world would have this sorta position.
Ideally we have to take out one front sooner than later. Chinese will ultimately learn how to survive harsh winters after couple of years & will start being more formidable opponents.
Taking out Pakistan seems easy but we know Uncle Sam would not allow it. I guess Planning was to take back PoK during US elections.. 1971 style winter war with Pakistan. But China seem to have spoiled the party.
 

Bhadra

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Who do you think is best suited and most capable for this purpose(both can be different )? And what are the chances of these people getting their hand on this business?

Please dont't say experts or millitary, Sir.
All good countries develop institutions that continuously develop and delve into the subject matter in the form of academics, research, participation, consultations, and advice. They interact with experts, military, Foreign policymakers, intelligence experts, domestic and outside stakeholders and come out with policy options.

In India, there is no expertise outside the bureaucracy. Bureacrcy can never be an objective and neutral, logic-based expert agency because bureacrcy by nature has a stake in one policy option. One does not have to study Max Waber to understand that Bureacrcy develops its own interest in certain policy options.

For example, ITBP as a policy option for Border Management has a strong IPS stake as it is a vehicle for their promotion avenues. They whatsoever have no interest in contributing innovating towards better border management. They are bound to find a solution to border management issues in the expansion of ITBP because that is their expansion.

Hence an outside agency. committee/ expert group is required for policy issues. It is precisely the weakness of our institutions like, USI, IDSA, CPR, Viveka Nad Foundation, or a host of others. Their biggest weakness being compromising their independence for survival and ideological biases they cling to. JNU is is an example... created to do research they have become experts in anti-nationalism.

If we want freedom from cranky, nepotist and dynasty politicians and a third rate corrupt and malignant bureacrcy, we need strong institutions in our society as a source of information, debate and generating options. Policy generations must have their own methodology of trip wiring. There is none in India...
 

bajiraopeshwa

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My guess(which may be pretty naive) is that Chinese are not interested in territory because they already have a big vast wasteland.Neither its about people, they already have enough people to enslave.It all about protecting CPEC from any future "issues" and having direct access to middle east and good connection to middle east is always helpful since they have oil and they are fucking wealthy and big chunk of China is still poor.

We are also responsible for this issue, we should have never let porkis get away.All this aman ki asha and shit. I believe Pakistan as failed nation is no good since its still a nation, we should have broken them or atleast broke the morale which can be only done by clutching their army.
Barren Ladakh land is of not much use to China and as long as India stakes claim, it will be never China's land. At some point Indian economy will match Chinese, Indian military spending will match Chinese and at that point China will loose Tibet and Aksai. In fact India will want Tibet to be an independent nation as it can then sign agreements and put troops in Tibet to threaten the Chinese mainland.

CPEC was a project to provide employment to Chinese at the cost of Pakistan. Economic corridor has not meaning. Pakistan has nothing to trade with China except donkeys and maybe some food, CPEC is not necessary for that. India has a much larger trade with China and we ourselves would have chosen some land route if it was economically viable. All our trade with China happens via sea routes.
 

Bhadra

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One of the reasons China keeps poking is to divert the Indian military budget towards the army and away from the Navy. The real asymmetry between India and China is that most of Chinese trade passes through Malacca and as India becomes a dominant naval power, it will become a real headache for China. Although there is talk of the Kra canal etc, it does not change the problem much as it will still lie within reach of Andaman/Nicobar.
In the Himalayas or Ladakh, the Indian resources are not looking at diverting or threatening Chinese trade. But the main purpose of Indian naval assets would be not to hold territory but to deliver the offensive blow.
One can also look at the problem posed by you the other way. It can be established that route of domination of China and an option to nullify the Indo Pecefic strategy lies in Ladakh. Sea route is not the only way of Chinese expansionism and extension of empire but BRI is which is a land approach too. Ladakh is a threat to Chinese BRI and China is trying to secure its expansionism through BRI by tackling Ladakh specially securing CPEC.

Do not see India from the glass of those countries which have no land borders - UK, USA and Austrelia or Newzealand . China has ventured into sea having adequately secured their land borders.

For India where does the greater threat lies to its sovereignty and security - on land or on seas? Give me settled and secure land borders and I will fervently write for disbanding Indian Army and give all to Navy...
Do not be a frog in the well...
 

Prakshepak

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It looks they are singing and crying to some kind of Commie patriotic song. These type of crap is part of there regular Commie propaganda programming. I am pretty sure the message of the song is too show the public how dedicated the PLA soldiers are too the country and party.
Or they are singing to elevate their sunken mood/morale while getting deployed. Comrade Commissar must have told them to sing
 

aarav

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Reports of Chink casualties by media in high altitude even though real winter has not even set yet shows that most are not acclimatized & need hyperbaric chambers & oxygen supplies to sustain operations ,china will not go kinetic as yet because of sheer numbers on our side,october window is still their to mount operations,now we should stop the talk of April status quo & start about Tibet occupation,chinks are facing unprecedented pressure everywhere,the talk in chink circles is about 2 lakh IA troops on border,chinks are surprised how did IA bring so many in such short time frame,through Ex changtham prahar & Ex Himvijay IA has devised a plan to hit the chinks where it hurts & in Aksai chin their defences after first line are abysmal.
 

Prakshepak

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Looks like conscripts can get away from deployment by family paying superiors.. totally believable based on how Chinese society works..,

224D3F5C-C27B-4E38-9CA4-1DEBA92453A1.jpeg
 

Bhadra

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My guess(which may be pretty naive) is that Chinese are not interested in territory because they already have a big vast wasteland.Neither its about people, they already have enough people to enslave.It all about protecting CPEC from any future "issues" and having direct access to middle east and good connection to middle east is always helpful since they have oil and they are fucking wealthy and big chunk of China is still poor.

We are also responsible for this issue, we should have never let porkis get away.All this aman ki asha and shit. I believe Pakistan as failed nation is no good since its still a nation, we should have broken them or atleast broke the morale which can be only done by clutching their army.
Do you know what have you done??
You have indeed adequately linked Ladakh to the Middle East and it indeed is like that. Ladakh is not unconnected barren land but a land connection and an important piece od Chinese BRI strategy. The first part of BRI strategy is to connect to all land that was under the influence of Quing dynasty or under the influence of great Chinese empire- Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand, Myanmar, Bhutan, Sikkim, Nepal, Tibet, Ladakh, GB, Afganistan, CAR, Magnolia etc etc...

In all these areas Chinese are very active, militarily or otherwise. All these places are part of BRI and broader Chinese expansionism. We are witnessing a great Chinese empire in building and USA or western powers seem incapable of stopping it. USA and Western powers seem to be following a policy of appeasement to Chinese Hitler like in the period prior to WWII.

Ladakh is an important cog in this entire BRI expansionist wheel. Let there be no mistake in any Generals mind that they have been called to fight a war by China in Bhutan, Sikkim and Ladakh. Today or tomorrow.
 

Tridev123

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My guess(which may be pretty naive) is that Chinese are not interested in territory because they already have a big vast wasteland.Neither its about people, they already have enough people to enslave.It all about protecting CPEC from any future "issues" and having direct access to middle east and good connection to middle east is always helpful since they have oil and they are fucking wealthy and big chunk of China is still poor.

We are also responsible for this issue, we should have never let porkis get away.All this aman ki asha and shit. I believe Pakistan as failed nation is no good since its still a nation, we should have broken them or atleast broke the morale which can be only done by clutching their army.
I don't agree with you. The Chinese even today are an imperialist power with hunger for more land. If India did not have any army they would have grabbed Arunachal Pradesh and probably whole of the North East. Not only India they would have grabbed territory from the smaller countries of S. E. Asia also. The fear of external intervention by the US and probably Russia (in the case of Vietnam) keeps their hands tied.

India's Nuclear Weapons capability means that they will not dare harbour ambitions of any large scale capture of Indian land.

The CCP does not give very high importance to economic factors when deciding to teach its supposed enemy a lesson. The Chinese were having a record trade surplus with us next only to the US. Chinese companies like Xaomi, One Plus, Vivo, Oppo etc dominate the Indian smartphone market and sell in billions of US dollars but did it stop the Chinese from invading our land.

I don't understand why there is always an attempt to characterise the land usurped by China from us as barren and useless. Are we justifying the loss. All land belonging to our country is important.

Do not under estimate the Chinese. Land borders are as important as sea borders.
Instead of dreaming of recapturing Aksai Chin and other areas we are trying to write away our loss by calling it barren and useless land.
 

Dessert Storm

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We are always in de facto defensive stance. The issue of 29-30aug showed we were alert no offense mode. You seriously believe that PLA will not hit. The game is all about giving and taking hits, the one who outdoes the opponent wins.
At present building reliable supply chains is the only thing I can see. We are not going to ride into aksai chin despite all the hype.we all know that
We are always in de facto defensive stance.

I believe we 'used' to be in a defensive stance. The actions on 29-30 is anything but a defensive stance. Yes, we are defending those heights by pre-empting chinese incursions but the stance itself is aggressive not defensive.

Being alert is not offensive mode.

Alertness is a state of mind that is well understood. Further, alertness is desirable but, not a pre-condition for aggressive intent or action (you could be careless and on offensive or alert and be on defensive). I reiterate, IA's actions on 29-30 display not just alertness but aggressiveness in action and intent (to defend out territories).

You seriously believe PLA will not hit.

Which part of my post made you believe 'they are not going to hit'. Even when we were not doing anything, they were hitting (slicing) us for decades. They will hit now, but they will get punched in return.

The game is all about giving and taking hits, the one who outdoes the opponent wins.

Well..... what do I say to that..... thanks for the revelation.

At present building reliable supply chains is the only thing I can see.

Could not gather which ones u mean. Military or industrial/economic. I will presume you mean both. That's important too. Building these is the only thing you see (won't comment on that part).

We are not going to ride into aksai chin despite all the hype.we all know that

Presuming what you say is true. We 'have to' make a statement that 'its ours and we intend taking it back'. It might seem like hype to you but sounds like statement of intent to me and definitely not defensive.
 

Chandragupt Maurya

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How come China has less number of tanks than India?
they have 3500 tanks and we have 4200 tanks according to Global Firepower 2020
 

tarunraju

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Inside story of how a real scumbag traitor this arrested journo Rajeev Sharma was since the 90's (Twitter thread)
My Wishlist:
1. Chargesheeting not just under OSA but also NSA
2. Rapid trial
3. Confiscation of all assets under Enemy Property Act

It's high time BJP snapped out of Ram Madhav / Javdekar-style "log kya kahenge" mindset and start brutally punishing presstitutes acting against national interest.
 

etantra

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No its not such a great scenario for India.. Not sure how much strain it puts on China economically but we are going through some serious slump through there. Having two active borders is never an ideal scenario.
We have an active Paki front that we have somehow managed to control & is well within our spending capabilities since it was believed to premier threat.
Now Active China border which is very long can put too much strain on Indian economy & defence budgets. Imagine going through that like a decade. No country in the world would have this sorta position.
Ideally we have to take out one front sooner than later. Chinese will ultimately learn how to survive harsh winters after couple of years & will start being more formidable opponents.
Taking out Pakistan seems easy but we know Uncle Sam would not allow it. I guess Planning was to take back PoK during US elections.. 1971 style winter war with Pakistan. But China seem to have spoiled the party.
Nope, I think the party is still on if the plan has been on.

What can the chinese do to stop action on PoK.. Going by your own logic, they are gonna be stuffed in peak winter of 2020.

for what we can see China's overarching interest is to become top dog, these all play into that aim

 

prasadr14

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My Wishlist:
1. Chargesheeting not just under OSA but also NSA
2. Rapid trial
3. Confiscation of all assets under Enemy Property Act

It's high time BJP snapped out of Ram Madhav / Javdekar-style "log kya kahenge" mindset and start brutally punishing presstitutes acting against national interest.
My wish-list is simple,

Should be taken for a ride in a car,
car slips and over-turns,
while trying to escape after attacking police, encountered...
 

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