India-China 2020 Border conflict

The Shrike

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Has it ever occurred to you , unless we complete all our Border road work, purchase certain weapons system we are not in a position to fight China.🤔

Only fools go to war with insufficient preparation.
It's been more than a year, which is about as much time that most can hope for.
 

Tridev123

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Taliban seek air missiles from China

The Taliban are desperate to get supplies of medium range surface-to-air missiles (SAMs) from China before the complete withdrawal of the US troops from Afghanistan in September. Afghan Taliban co-founder Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, alias Mullah Baradar, placed his desire to get SAMs before the Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi at a delegation-level meeting at Tianjin on Wednesday.

This was expected. Running an well dispersed guerrilla movement and running an Government are two entirely different operations.

A Government is expected to be visible to the general population and needs to collect taxes and deliver services to the population.

Since the Taliban do not have an Air Force and fighter aircraft and also have no network of radars and SAM's any country with stakes in the situation can do aerial bombing of targets using LGB's. Shoulder fired Sam's cannot bring down high flying aircraft.

Interested countries will probably wait for the Taliban to occupy fixed buildings and other critical infrastructure and then bomb them to smithereens. Probably the bombing can be done at midnight or early morning to increase the psychological effect on the Taliban. They should not be able to even sleep peacefully at night. But very accurate intelligence will be required to avoid civilian casualties.

If the Taliban capture border crossing checkposts we should wait for them to settle down and then bomb that checkpost out of existence. The Taliban should not be allowed to consolidate.

It will be a high cost operation to regularly bomb the Taliban across Afghanistan, no doubt. So the supply lines of the Taliban running from Pakistan should be degraded. It is a long border and we cannot totally stop the resupply of weapons, ammunition, medicines and food etc but the costs for Pakistan should increase manifold.

If China indeed agrees to provide the Taliban with an Air Defence Network, it will be an very provocative act. I believe the US and other powers should act to stop it.

Probably the importance of India getting land access to Afghanistan through the capture of Gilgit Baltistan and POK is magnified. Once we get a land route to Afghanistan our options increase. This does not mean that we immediately send troops to Afghanistan. But other choices are there.
 

The Shrike

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I'm surprised by the fact that you people are debating with this troll.

Matter of the fact is that the Chinese always knew about the proposed Russia-china-India axis. Heck they knew it even before India was made aware of this.

You really believe that chinese are naive and do not understand islam? One look at xingyang will tell you how the deal with Islam in their country. All this sweet talk of reform and co-existence only exists in countries like India whose leaders like in their own garden world whereas in his country the entire region was first captured then turned into a province which is now being exploited for natural resources minerals and cheap labor with it's entire population being subdued and reduced through direct military might.

All talk of China India bonhomie makes zero sense because these ideas clash with the very fundamentals of geopolitics.

How many countries bar USA are superpowers in America's? The answer is zero from taking Texas and California from Mexico to later destabilizing the entire country by funding mafia's and drugs US went to great lengths to make sure that Mexico never stands up as a proxy of an other power or a power in itself to challenge US. Most latin American countries met the same fate one by one as they were forced into the US sphere of influence.

UK in it's entire history always made it's goal to prevent a single superpower from emerging in Europe. The French attempted the same thing when they declared war on Prussia to prevent the German unification and so did the Japanese when they took away Korea Manchuria and parts of China to remain dominant in their sphere of influence.

No superpower ever allows an other super or regional power to form right at their borders especially by their own help.

The last time two superpowers shared borders the world had to witness 2 world wars.

China and India cannot be friends simply due to sheer size and ideologies of both the countries. Unlike India Russia to has a single leader and thus a single party system which puts them on similar grounds with China.

Economic prosperity infrastructure development huge soft power status of a global economic power capture of Tibet and Xinjiang heck even the Olympics are all used to prove the superiority of the Chinese model and institutions over democracy to keep their population happy.

Plus china is in a dominant position vis a vis India from Aksai chin to villages in Arunachal Pradesh and big intrusions in demchok. They have no reason to parley with us as we are in no position to offer them anything.

India too should come out it's delusions of peace and face the Chinese head on because that is the only way.
Well said, it is instructive to study US's rise to becoming a superpower - also why people should not think the Chinese are stupid when they start fights with everybody else, they are not trying to win friends they are beating them into submission, turn them into vassal states. Thats how real powers behave not larping about Vishvaguru and trying to be fraands with everybody.
 

The Shrike

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Great analysis ! My argument -

We don't have to pull the same trick. We can do it in some other sectors, like Himachal Pradesh/Uttrakhand where the Chinese have the weaker infrastructure, and maybe even in Arunachal Pradesh.
Is there absolutely any area on the the entire LAC where we have a significant infrastructure (w.r.t logistics and manoeuvre) advantage over the Chinese? Remember the area has to have some tactical significance, and not a random hill in the middle of nowhere. After all the time I have spent looking at G Earth I don't think I have found any such place.

On the other hand, without doing a quid-pro-quo, we can just act aggressive and try to snatch back our land occupied (Gogra/Depsang) with force. For example, Gogra is relatively flat, we can just send a huge armoured column and surround the Chinese occupied position without firing.
Err... are you sure about Gogra? There are only a few small patches of flat land here and we are completely in the defensive - the PLA can attack us from 4-5 different axis.
I did a quick annotation (click on the image to read the details) of the roads and PLA camps/bases in the Gogra area below, we have only one route to this place and AFAIK it it not even blacktopped. While the Chinese can come from 3 axis (1. along the Hot Springs valley 2. from Kongka 3. From north shore of Pangong). In fact if you zoom out and look at the larger picture (too lazy to annotate now) they can attack from 2 more axis ( 1. "34° 3'3.03"N, 78°39'41.76"E" they can cut off the road linking Gogra from Lukung and 2. via Jianan pass, the main Galwan rear camp/base is ~50 from Gogra).
I don't see any scope for a "QPQ" here, as per my armchair opinion we will face a tough time here if things get hot. If you look at our side we have built dozens of bunkers/sangers on the peaks and Km's of trenches. Just holding off any PLA offensive should be sufficient IMO.
Sorry for any typos.
Gogra.jpg
 

Fire and groove

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What people fail to understand is, mountains themselves act as a formidable defensive wall. It is very easy to bunker up and fortify but is extremely hard to destroy and dismantle such positions. Mountains offer natural protection from artillery and air power while acting as perfect hiding areas.

China cannot just steamroll into the Himalayas, blitzkrieg tactics don't work on mountains.
Guess I was wrong, I need way more research.
 

Srinivas_K

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This was expected. Running an well dispersed guerrilla movement and running an Government are two entirely different operations.

A Government is expected to be visible to the general population and needs to collect taxes and deliver services to the population.

Since the Taliban do not have an Air Force and fighter aircraft and also have no network of radars and SAM's any country with stakes in the situation can do aerial bombing of targets using LGB's. Shoulder fired Sam's cannot bring down high flying aircraft.

Interested countries will probably wait for the Taliban to occupy fixed buildings and other critical infrastructure and then bomb them to smithereens. Probably the bombing can be done at midnight or early morning to increase the psychological effect on the Taliban. They should not be able to even sleep peacefully at night. But very accurate intelligence will be required to avoid civilian casualties.

If the Taliban capture border crossing checkposts we should wait for them to settle down and then bomb that checkpost out of existence. The Taliban should not be allowed to consolidate.

It will be a high cost operation to regularly bomb the Taliban across Afghanistan, no doubt. So the supply lines of the Taliban running from Pakistan should be degraded. It is a long border and we cannot totally stop the resupply of weapons, ammunition, medicines and food etc but the costs for Pakistan should increase manifold.

If China indeed agrees to provide the Taliban with an Air Defence Network, it will be an very provocative act. I believe the US and other powers should act to stop it.

Probably the importance of India getting land access to Afghanistan through the capture of Gilgit Baltistan and POK is magnified. Once we get a land route to Afghanistan our options increase. This does not mean that we immediately send troops to Afghanistan. But other choices are there.
China will not give them those. Infact no country supports or gives advanced weapon systems to Taliban.

China knows Taliban will double cross just like how Pakistan has done with the Americans.
 

Floydian

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What people fail to understand is, mountains themselves act as a formidable defensive wall. It is very easy to bunker up and fortify but is extremely hard to destroy and dismantle such positions. Mountains offer natural protection from artillery and air power while acting as perfect hiding areas.

China cannot just steamroll into the Himalayas, blitzkrieg tactics don't work on mountains.
Agreed bro...

But what about the situation where the enemy has precision drone based missile systems and suicide drones with them?
The recent Azer-Armenian war was a complete shocker, where the Azers used drone (procured from Turkey and Israel) to a devastating effect on the Armenian armour as well as soldiers!
And here we are talking about the Chinks, who may have equal if not better capabilities.

And here, we get to hear drones flying at will near our defence installations in J&K almost every other day, with hardly a few being shot down..
So the question remains that are our forces well-equipped to tackle this tremendous threat of drones?!
 

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