India-China 2020 Border conflict

HariPrasad-1

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Iron Brothers :)

Chinese national named Nwmeyuan Chang 30 years hit by 4 bullets

Chinese is a differnt culture and doesn't not have much footprint in subcontinent and hence doesn't have a penetration in terms of influence, relations and network. China cannot be an effective power in subcontinent, Middle East and rest of the world. It can have a limited influence in korea etc. which does not have much of the strategic significance. We should take advantage of it and kick China out of the subcontinent and Middle East. It has already begun in Africa. Recently Nigeria take a very strong stand against China and said that every African country should save itself from Debt trap of China. They said that India can be a reliable partner in the development of Africa and the
ambitio of African countries in space Technology. This is a big statement. We should expand our influence in Africa, Middle East, and subcontinent countries where we will need some financial resources as these countries are poor. We can increase our influence in Europe and American continent just by way of aggressively propagating our soft power. We are doing very well in defense technologies now a days which can slso play an important role. Substitution of Chinese goods holds the key. If we practice a well conceived comprehensive strategy against, China can te tamed in a decade or two.
 

Automatic Kalashnikov

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A few reasons i could think why we are not seeing a repeat of Op Snow Leopard (Pangong and Kailash action Aug end last year):
1. You cannot pull the same trick twice, or at least it will be much more difficult. Last time the Chinese were caught completely flatfooted, if you look at the sat photos before vs after, you will get the impression that most of the PLA had come here for a picnic initially and started digging in after they realised that the IA may actually take counteraction. They have since positioned themselves much more aggressively and add many more troops. If we pull off one more operation like this, you can bet the PLA commander will be called back to Beijing where he will commit suicide by 3 gun shots to the back of the head.
2. Government wants to avoid escalating to an actual shooting war unless the Chinese attack us. Pangong So was the only area where significant number of forces were facing each other (i.e. high risk of escalation). Now more or less forces are disengaged, bulk of the PLA is now a few km to couple hundred km away from the LAC. Instead government is adding new formations in our rear areas (1 Corp) to build pressure on the Chinese without a direct escalation.
3. There is also a lack of public pressure for the Government to act, most common folks have forgotten about the order issue by now. And due to govt obfuscation and political opposition incompetence we probably may not see this issue coming back to the top of public attention unless there are some new developments.
I mentioned QPQ across the LAC, in op snow leopard we occupied heights which are on our side of the LAC, but have remained vacant mostly.
 

mist_consecutive

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A few reasons i could think why we are not seeing a repeat of Op Snow Leopard (Pangong and Kailash action Aug end last year):
1. You cannot pull the same trick twice, or at least it will be much more difficult. Last time the Chinese were caught completely flatfooted, if you look at the sat photos before vs after, you will get the impression that most of the PLA had come here for a picnic initially and started digging in after they realised that the IA may actually take counteraction. They have since positioned themselves much more aggressively and add many more troops. If we pull off one more operation like this, you can bet the PLA commander will be called back to Beijing where he will commit suicide by 3 gun shots to the back of the head.
2. Government wants to avoid escalating to an actual shooting war unless the Chinese attack us. Pangong So was the only area where significant number of forces were facing each other (i.e. high risk of escalation). Now more or less forces are disengaged, bulk of the PLA is now a few km to couple hundred km away from the LAC. Instead government is adding new formations in our rear areas (1 Corp) to build pressure on the Chinese without a direct escalation.
3. There is also a lack of public pressure for the Government to act, most common folks have forgotten about the order issue by now. And due to govt obfuscation and political opposition incompetence we probably may not see this issue coming back to the top of public attention unless there are some new developments.
Great analysis ! My argument -

1. You cannot pull the same trick twice, or at least it will be much more difficult. Last time the Chinese were caught completely flatfooted, if you look at the sat photos before vs after, you will get the impression that most of the PLA had come here for a picnic initially and started digging in after they realised that the IA may actually take counteraction. They have since positioned themselves much more aggressively and add many more troops. If we pull off one more operation like this, you can bet the PLA commander will be called back to Beijing where he will commit suicide by 3 gun shots to the back of the head.
We don't have to pull the same trick. We can do it in some other sectors, like Himachal Pradesh/Uttrakhand where the Chinese have the weaker infrastructure, and maybe even in Arunachal Pradesh.

On the other hand, without doing a quid-pro-quo, we can just act aggressive and try to snatch back our land occupied (Gogra/Depsang) with force. For example, Gogra is relatively flat, we can just send a huge armoured column and surround the Chinese occupied position without firing.

2. Government wants to avoid escalating to an actual shooting war unless the Chinese attack us. Pangong So was the only area where significant number of forces were facing each other (i.e. high risk of escalation). Now more or less forces are disengaged, bulk of the PLA is now a few km to couple hundred km away from the LAC. Instead government is adding new formations in our rear areas (1 Corp) to build pressure on the Chinese without a direct escalation.
Chinese are unlikely to be pressured by any amount of formation, and Army knows this. This is just evident after today's flag meeting, as currently, we have a huge amount of force stationed in Ladakh which can easily mount an offensive if need be. But Chinese are completely non-negotiable.

3. There is also a lack of public pressure for the Government to act, most common folks have forgotten about the order issue by now. And due to govt obfuscation and political opposition incompetence we probably may not see this issue coming back to the top of public attention unless there are some new developments.
This is what saddens me the most, this govt. will try to sweep the matter under the carpet. But this will definitely bite NDA in 2024 as this will completely deflate Modi's image and show him as a weak leader.
 

lixun

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Let me ask a question, whether the Indians are willing to redefine the border with the current line of actual control
 

Apollo

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Great analysis ! My argument -



We don't have to pull the same trick. We can do it in some other sectors, like Himachal Pradesh/Uttrakhand where the Chinese have the weaker infrastructure, and maybe even in Arunachal Pradesh.

On the other hand, without doing a quid-pro-quo, we can just act aggressive and try to snatch back our land occupied (Gogra/Depsang) with force. For example, Gogra is relatively flat, we can just send a huge armoured column and surround the Chinese occupied position without firing.



Chinese are unlikely to be pressured by any amount of formation, and Army knows this. This is just evident after today's flag meeting, as currently, we have a huge amount of force stationed in Ladakh which can easily mount an offensive if need be. But Chinese are completely non-negotiable.



This is what saddens me the most, this govt. will try to sweep the matter under the carpet. But this will definitely bite NDA in 2024 as this will completely deflate Modi's image and show him as a weak leader.
Modi lost his stature & he is behaving like opportunistic politician rather than a Nationalistic PM. Either he shud step down make way for Yogi or we need a sensible opposition. The Later is very far from happening so only option is Yogi for PM in 2024. Hoping he won't disappoint the billion dreams
 

mist_consecutive

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Let me ask a question, whether the Indians are willing to redefine the border with the current line of actual control
Yes, and our leaders proposed that both sides sit down and draw an official border so that both countries can live in peace.

China seems not to agree to proposals and negotiations but instead tried to change the border unilaterally, and now we are here.
 

lixun

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Yes, and our leaders proposed that both sides sit down and draw an official border so that both countries can live in peace.

China seems not to agree to proposals and negotiations but instead tried to change the border unilaterally, and now we are here.
Will India give up its territorial claims to Aksai Chin and give up support for the Tibetan Independence Organization?
 

mist_consecutive

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Will India give up its territorial claims to Aksai Chin and give up support for the Tibetan Independence Organization?
Will China give up its territorial claims to Eastern Ladakh, Arunachal Pradesh, and other disputed areas currently not under Chinese control? And also give up supporting Pakistan and North-Eastern insurgency ?

Then yes.

Bonus package :- Identify Kashmir (including Pakistan-occupied Kashmir) as part of India, and look the other way when we take it back from Pakistan.

Then we can be friends, we will give you access to Kolkata port (a much shorter route than CPEC to Gwadar and devoid of insurgency and Taliban). We will also help you take care of Uyghurs extremism and protect from Taliban and Afghan insurgency trying to help Uyghurs (which is surely gonna erupt in the full-fledged movement within few years).
 

Automatic Kalashnikov

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Will India give up its territorial claims to Aksai Chin and give up support for the Tibetan Independence Organization?
If China gives up its claims on Arunachal Pradesh and Bhutan then India is likely to give up its claim on Aksai Chin.

Support will stop if China stops supporting NE insurgency via Myanmar and Kashmir insurgency via Pakistan.
 

lixun

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If China gives up its claims on Arunachal Pradesh and Bhutan then India is likely to give up its claim on Aksai Chin.

Support will stop if China stops supporting NE insurgency via Myanmar and Kashmir insurgency via Pakistan.
If this is a condition of the Indian government, then I think it can be negotiated
 

lixun

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Will China give up its territorial claims to Eastern Ladakh, Arunachal Pradesh, and other disputed areas currently not under Chinese control? And also give up supporting Pakistan and North-Eastern insurgency ?

Then yes.

Bonus package :- Identify Kashmir (including Pakistan-occupied Kashmir) as part of India, and look the other way when we take it back from Pakistan.

Then we can be friends, we will give you access to Kolkata port (a much shorter route than CPEC to Gwadar and devoid of insurgency and Taliban). We will also help you take care of Uyghurs extremism and protect from Taliban and Afghan insurgency trying to help Uyghurs (which is surely gonna erupt in the full-fledged movement within few years).
When Hu Jintao was the Chinese leader, he once proposed to develop diplomatic relations between India and Pakistan at the same time. China does not participate in the territorial dispute between India and Pakistan. The Indian government refused. China must choose between India and Pakistan.
It is difficult for us to give up the already strong diplomatic relations with Pakistan, and the diplomatic relations with India will be very uncertain.
 

mist_consecutive

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When Hu Jintao was the Chinese leader, he once proposed to develop diplomatic relations between India and Pakistan at the same time. China does not participate in the territorial dispute between India and Pakistan. The Indian government refused. China must choose between India and Pakistan.
It is difficult for us to give up the already strong diplomatic relations with Pakistan, and the diplomatic relations with India will be very uncertain.
Yet you made roads (CPEC) through Indo-Pak disputed territory.

Pakistan is a lost cause. It is plagued with Islamic extremism and its economy is in shambles. With the rise of the Taliban, insurgency and sharia law will spread more in Pakistan.

There are rising attacks on Chinese engineers and citizens in Pakistan, and Pakistan's inability to prevent them is just its proof. Soon China-developed Gwadar port (which is situated in insurgency-rich Balochistan), which is also close to Afghanistan will be overrun by Taliban and multiple Islamic factions.

The ideals and culture of China are completely opposite of that of Islam. Even if you try to establish a cordial relation, it will be limited to lip service and arms selling. Pakistani population hates your kind just because you are Chinese (and eat Pork).

It will be wise for China to immediately abandon Pakistan and forge a new relationship with India, till we are still fence-sitters between the USA and Russia.
 

lixun

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Yet you made roads (CPEC) through Indo-Pak disputed territory.

Pakistan is a lost cause. It is plagued with Islamic extremism and its economy is in shambles. With the rise of the Taliban, insurgency and sharia law will spread more in Pakistan.

There are rising attacks on Chinese engineers and citizens in Pakistan, and Pakistan's inability to prevent them is just its proof. Soon China-developed Gwadar port (which is situated in insurgency-rich Balochistan), which is also close to Afghanistan will be overrun by Taliban and multiple Islamic factions.

The ideals and culture of China are completely opposite of that of Islam. Even if you try to establish a cordial relation, it will be limited to lip service and arms selling. Pakistani population hates your kind just because you are Chinese (and eat Pork).

It will be wise for China to immediately abandon Pakistan and forge a new relationship with India, till we are still fence-sitters between the USA and Russia.
No matter how you curse Pakistan, he won't disappear
There are only interests between countries,
India is willing to join the Belt and Road Initiative and open its markets to Chinese capital and Chinese goods. India is willing to remain neutral in the dispute between China and the United States. We can help India modernize, but we also need something.
 

another_armchair

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When Hu Jintao was the Chinese leader, he once proposed to develop diplomatic relations between India and Pakistan at the same time. China does not participate in the territorial dispute between India and Pakistan. The Indian government refused. China must choose between India and Pakistan.
It is difficult for us to give up the already strong diplomatic relations with Pakistan, and the diplomatic relations with India will be very uncertain.
Chinese made grenades, RPG's and steel core bullets were widely found to be used by terrorists infiltrating into India from Pakistan.

It has reduced only after trade between China and India hit the high notes and India's diplomatic weight increased in the past decade or so.

China under the current CPC is a snake. At least Pakistani's don't make any pretences like the sneaky Chinese govt.
 

lixun

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Chinese made grenades, RPG's and steel core bullets were widely found to be used by terrorists infiltrating into India from Pakistan.

It has reduced only after trade between China and India hit the high notes and India's diplomatic weight increased in the past decade or so.

China under the current CPC is a snake. At least Pakistani's don't make any pretences like the sneaky Chinese govt.
If we really support Pakistan’s terrorists, they will have more than assault rifles and grenades.
In the Mao Zedong era, our weapons were handed over to the so-called third world brothers in large numbers.
Could it be that the FN6 air defense missile that shot down the Russian helicopter was also aided by China to the Syrian rebels?
 

mist_consecutive

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No matter how you curse Pakistan, he won't disappear
There are only interests between countries,
Not cursing Pakistan, just telling you the reality. These are facts, not my claim / hatred -
Yes, Pakistan may exist, but as a destroyed country like Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan.

India is willing to join the Belt and Road Initiative and open its markets to Chinese capital and Chinese goods. India is willing to remain neutral in the dispute between China and the United States. We can help India modernize, but we also need something.
India will probably join BRI, only if it is able to see China as a friend, not a usurper snatching its land.
India was never between conflict of USA and China, but due to Chinese border attacks, we are being forced to join your enemies.

Russia-China-India nexus could have been possible if China did not actively nibble at our territory and made us feel threatened.
 

fire starter

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No matter how you curse Pakistan, he won't disappear
There are only interests between countries,
India is willing to join the Belt and Road Initiative and open its markets to Chinese capital and Chinese goods. India is willing to remain neutral in the dispute between China and the United States. We can help India modernize, but we also need something.
Pakistan is just living on mercy it's just matter of time before it gets explodes or destroyed by us. Who would like to invest in such unstable shithole.
 

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