India-China 2020 Border conflict

[Indrajit]

He Could have Aligned himself with US / USSR than itself and isolated china at that time itself. China was no body at that time. Instead , smoking the peace pipe, He went ahead and screwed taiwan to get china that permanent seat in UN while all along, chinks were planning to back stab and played on his panchsheel chiyapa.

Not reflective of the times. India had struggled to get independence, not to again join some group or the other, both of which would have resulted in us being targeted openly by the other. It would have been suicide.

As far as Taiwan is concerned, it was not Nehru's decision no matter what some random statement on india being made permanent member is brought up. Taiwan may or may not be different now but they held the same views of mainland China on Tibet, borders with India etc.

 

[Marliii]

Not reflective of the times. India had struggled to get independence, not to again join some group or the other, both of which would have resulted in us being targeted openly by the other. It would have been suicide.

As far as Taiwan is concerned, it was not Nehru's decision no matter what some random statement on india being made permanent member is brought up. Taiwan may or may not be different now but they held the same views of mainland China on Tibet, borders with India etc.

Have to disagree mate.nehru was openly stupid running Non alignment movement and we didn't get american, NAM or USSR support.even in 65 we didn't receive any.but after that we went in full for the soviets and it helped in 71.we should have made a strong relations with any of the superpowers from the beginning itself.instead of going for that stupid NAM

 

[Kumata]

For all the suspicions against western imperialism and non-alignment joomla. NAM didn't gave a shit when China invaded India, Heard he begged the US for assistance which even they were surprised.

No, Nehru did not begged. He merely wrote a letter explaining Indian position post war and in return US, Britain rt all reverted with arms and ammunition.

One thing i realise is that China should never be trusted. Relating to this, Modi too hosted Eleven before they went on rampage in leh... This is exact replica of than Chinese PM EN lai doing political parleys of panchsheel with nehru, simultaneously moving his army to Than NEFA & LEH. Another imp. Thing i realise is that Army generals lost NEFA in 62 much before the war begun. Blame it on Kaul who wanted to back track and informed his soldiers of same. This mental loss did no good and all army did was take reverse path.... Without a fight....

Thankfully, Modi is no Nehru and is the reason we have almost 2 Lakh soldiers facing these monkeys. So modi have learned from History and is ensuring that he do not gets back stabbed like nehru....

 

[Kumata]

Not reflective of the times. India had struggled to get independence, not to again join some group or the other, both of which would have resulted in us being targeted openly by the other. It would have been suicide.

My point is different. Had he aligned to US or USSR, we would had a support from one of three on ground. They wud have counter balanced each other helping us at same time. With NAM shit, we were on our own literally.

As far as Taiwan is concerned, it was not Nehru's decision no matter what some random statement on india being made permanent member is brought up. Taiwan may or may not be different now but they held the same views of mainland China on Tibet, borders with India etc.

Ur post is not clear or may be i am not understanding it correctly.

But

Nehru took personal interest in getting China that seat in UN. This is well documented in multiple places. His thinking was that Chinese will honor the panchsheel shit and other aggrements, which China never did and till. Date, they do not honor any such aggrements.

To be honest, he got played big time by than Chinese Premier chou en lai, who back stabbed him everyone. Worst is thst Nehru did not listened to his own IB Chief MULLICK when it comes to China...

 

[Jaymax61]

I will share an unpopular opinion.
Nehru gets more shit than he deserves
Modi gets more support than he deserves.

you can flame me now

 

[Marliii]

I will share an unpopular opinion.
Nehru gets more shit than he deserves
Modi gets more support than he deserves.

you can flame me now

But one thing is certain nehru hadn't had capability of running a country as diverse as india and his attempts at enforcing his flawed ideologies was one of largest blunder in indian history

 

[mandestiny]

Why so much talk about Nehru. I think we need to focus on current situation.

Events cant be reversed.

 

[Knowitall]

Why so much talk about Nehru. I think we need to focus on current situation.

Events cant be reversed.

Easier said than done.

Contrary to popular belief geopolitics is an arena where countries plan things over the course of decades.

Even one small mistake can set a country's ambitions and plans behind by a good 2-3 decades.

Change in govt does not result in change of power dynamics.

Matter of fact is due the past mistakes of congress Tibet pok Aksai china along with parts of arunachal paradesh are gone for good.

Now we have only 2 options fight an all out of war thus risking more of our territory and assets or accept the current status quo.

We have chosen the latter.

You see past decisions do matter no matter what anyone says.

Tibet is gone and it's not coming back same goes for the manufacturing industry that we couldn't grab.

Now just because we have changed govts doesn't mean that these will come back in a platter.

 

[Suhaldev]

No, Nehru did not begged. He merely wrote a letter explaining Indian position post war and in return US, Britain rt all reverted with arms and ammunition.

One thing i realise is that China should never be trusted. Relating to this, Modi too hosted Eleven before they went on rampage in leh... This is exact replica of than Chinese PM EN lai doing political parleys of panchsheel with nehru, simultaneously moving his army to Than NEFA & LEH. Another imp. Thing i realise is that Army generals lost NEFA in 62 much before the war begun. Blame it on Kaul who wanted to back track and informed his soldiers of same. This mental loss did no good and all army did was take reverse path.... Without a fight....

Thankfully, Modi is no Nehru and is the reason we have almost 2 Lakh soldiers facing these monkeys. So modi have learned from History and is ensuring that he do not gets back stabbed like nehru....

Well, Army lost NEFA before 62? Lol what?

Just to defend nehru don't write nonsense. Yes, infra was poor but was army responsible? Even after Kashmir debacle military modernisation was sidelined by whom? Kaul was bypassed and selected among opposition why whom? When kaul rushed back to Delhi who supported to let him continue from there? Who refused to use airforce?

Answer: Nehru

 

[mandestiny]

Easier said than done.

Contrary to popular belief geopolitics is an arena where countries plan things over the course of decades.

Even one small mistake can set a country's ambitions and plans behind by a good 2-3 decades.

Change in govt does not result in change of power dynamics.

Matter of fact is due the past mistakes of congress Tibet pok Aksai china along with parts of arunachal paradesh are gone for good.

Now we have only 2 options fight an all out of war thus risking more of our territory and assets or accept the current status quo.

We have chosen the latter.

You see past decisions do matter no matter what anyone says.

Tibet is gone and it's not coming back same goes for the manufacturing industry that we couldn't grab.

Now just because we have changed govts doesn't mean that these will come back in a platter.

I think the way Indian govt's (means uptill now) working, we should hold what we have and make it policy if this line cross then attack them brutally.

 

[Knowitall]

I think the way Indian govt's (means uptill now) working, we should hold what we have and make it policy if this line cross then attack them brutally.

We should that has not been the case unfortunately.

 

[mandestiny]

We should that has not been the case unfortunately.

Yeah, what we can do. Govt full of gandhians and nehrians philosophy.

 

[Kumata]

Well, Army lost NEFA before 62? Lol what?

Just to defend nehru don't write nonsense. Yes, infra was poor but was army responsible? Even after Kashmir debacle military modernisation was sidelined by whom? Kaul was bypassed and selected among opposition why whom? When kaul rushed back to Delhi who supported to let him continue from there? Who refused to use airforce?

Answer: Nehru

Not defending Nehru anywhere .

Current LOC was lost before 62 started. China only fall back to loc while nehru wanted position as on 1959. Majority of NEFA lost was returned since Chinese feared thst US and Britain might join India and they could not afford another front. Infact the precursor for war was our soldiers trying to get few posts back and they did succeed in first attempt before kaul realised thst Chinese supply lines are well fed and he have nothing to stop the juggernaut. Still, they fought and perished but kaul, s dash to Delhi for falling back was the nail which resulted in army loosing their moral on ground... Rest of the events were just going with the flow...

Imagine ur commander begging to leave his posts to govt in full view of his soldiers....

Coming to wider points... Here is what I think got nehru Screwed..

* He choose to trust Chinese PM more than his own people. IB & mullick all along maintained and cautioned him thst Chinese will go on a war path. He was basically asking a thief is he is stealing his property or not.

* same for tibet too. His holiness kept telling him of Chinese killings in tibet... He did same mistake again.. Asking Chinese PM, Who showed his true colors only in 1959 when he visited with his deputy.

* His persuit of being a global leader did him in too. Leave pipe he smoked too much. So much so thst he lost his own country / people in the process.

* rest all his initiatives of peace pipe, pwnchsheek, Nam have no relevance today.

Looking at events preceding 1962, we had exactly same playbook played with MODI too. Eleven came to kochi, all optics while his army was planning leh... But mudi saw through whole thing and is giving it back in double measure...

 

[Kumata]

I will share an unpopular opinion.
Nehru gets more shit than he deserves
Modi gets more support than he deserves.

you can flame me now

Nehru rightfully deserve the shit.. And modi deserves the support.. He saw thru the eleven, s real agenda and had his eye popped out....

 

[Jimih]

I will share an unpopular opinion.
Nehru gets more shit than he deserves
Modi gets more support than he deserves.

you can flame me now

*Nehru annexed Hyderabad- Operation Polo 1948
*Nehru annexed Goa- Operation Vijay 1961

*1962- Nehru took a bold decision of launching an offensive against China though the End Result was different.

*1947-1948 Indo-Pak War- Most neutral assessments agree that India under Nehru was the victor of the war as it was able to successfully defend about two-thirds of the erstwhile princely state, including the Kashmir Valley, Jammu and Ladakh.

*1947-1950- The territories of the Princely States were politically integrated into the Indian Union under Nehru.

 

[Indrajit]

Have to disagree mate.nehru was openly stupid running Non alignment movement and we didn't get american, NAM or USSR support.even in 65 we didn't receive any.but after that we went in full for the soviets and it helped in 71.we should have made a strong relations with any of the superpowers from the beginning itself.instead of going for that stupid NAM

India had got independence after fighting a colonial power. It wasn't about to ally with the US openly in an anti communist crusade which would almost certainly have invited Soviet support to armed rebellion by communists and their supporters. That at a time when India was a very fragile nation, just having unified different states into the union.

Going with the Soviets would have made it impossible to retain any independence and would have almost certainly involved severe American retaliation. People forget now that being nominally neutral helped indua to get assistance from both sides and it was American assistance that warded off famine, fed many starving people and brought in the green revolution .

Surrendering sovereignty is never an acceptable idea and one look at the countries that went down that route shows the destruction that caused.

 

[Jimih]

Upset China gives lecture on democracy to India

Upset China gives lecture on democracy to India, US

The way to judge which country is democratic and which one is autocratic should not be decided by one certain country: Chinese foreign ministry

www.hindustantimes.com

 

[Indrajit]

*Nehru annexed Hyderabad- Operation Polo 1948
*Nehru annexed Goa- Operation Vijay 1961

*1962- Nehru took a bold decision of launching an offensive against China though the End Result was different.

*1947-1948 Indo-Pak War- Most neutral assessments agree that India under Nehru was the victor of the war as it was able to successfully defend about two-thirds of the erstwhile princely state, including the Kashmir Valley, Jammu and Ladakh.

*1947-1950- The territories of the Princely States were politically integrated into the Indian Union under Nehru.

I agree with most except the China war, avoidable imo and brought on by Nehru's cussedness in dealing with the military. Nehru gets a bad rap with most on the RW but I see him as one of our great leaders, no matter if flawed in some ways. Hindsight is always 20/20 but with Patel dying early, we had no other leader of such a high stature and the scales still tip in his favour, imo.

 

[Jimih]

In what context?

 

[FalconSlayers]