India-China 2020 Border conflict

Knowitall

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Chinese scums who used to lecture us on being respectful to neighbour and to not being hegemonic are quite on PLA thuggery on our borders. Of course they have all the excuses which they have been inventing as they go. This primitive race is not our friend. Any exchange must be handled with maturity and knowing their inherited traits of back stabbing and lying with straight face.

Our response must not be forgiving this time. More discussion on this line has to be main streamed with good internet effect so that any confusion of political class must be mitigated. Their population centres being away is a blessing in disguise because they never care about their population on the first place. It is their solider who are more precious to them. More they amass on our borders better our chances of inflicting dearer harm on their national strength because soon you deplete them on LAC they will be left with nothing to defend on South Vietnam sea and on Siberian front. If Russia will not threaten them militarily they will for sure extract and blackmail them on many other non military fronts.

The PLA bluff must be called out when we are ready; better this year.
We won't attack them first under any circumstance no matter how much we wish for it.

Logic would dictate us to heat loc to mount pressure on pak and relieve afganistan but with most of our army tied up in LAC we don't have many options left.

If the reports of pakistan moving it's troops to Afghan border are right it means that PLA has achieved half of its objectives without firing a shot.

Be it central asia sri lanka or myanmar there is a plan in motion to isolate us regionally in our own backyard.

We need to step up and counter them directly.
 

hit&run

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We won't attack them first under any circumstance no matter how much we wish for it.

Logic would dictate us to heat loc to mount pressure on pak and relieve afganistan but with most of our army tied up in LAC we don't have many options left.

If the reports of pakistan moving it's troops to Afghan border are right it means that PLA has achieved half of its objectives without firing a shot.

Be it central asia sri lanka or myanmar there is a plan in motion to isolate us regionally in our own backyard.

We need to step up and counter them directly.
Why not, attack them first. Fat-tee hai unsey?
 

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Hahaha beats me also, Ladakh dont have any vegetation supported for insurgency. Whats the use of CT operators than?

Real conventional warfare is totally different from CICT operations.

Maybe RR will be used for backup firepower and nullifying threats from PLA raising Militia which consists of ethnic Tibetian men who are getting training on the lines of Indian SFF who themselves are trained in CI and unconventional warfare.
Wouldn't it then be more logical to deploy SFF itself, who's bread and butter it is that terrain
Rather than to Re-acclimatize and re-familiarise RR troops who operated in a completely different terrain for decades
 

Knowitall

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Why not, attack them first. Fat-tee hai unsey?
I think you got my post a bit wrong.

Im sure you might have glanced through my posts atleast once on this thread.

From last year itself I have been talking about how we must strike the Chinese first or strike the Pakistanis now that we have solidified our border against the Chinese. Even in the pakistan thread I keep talking about retaliation.

Fast forward a year I have completely lost any hope of the govt taking the war to chinese or Pakistanis.

It's not that I don't want us to take the fight to them its just that at this point I have understood the way our govt works and therefore I am pretty sure that we won't be attacking them. That's it.
 

hit&run

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I think you got my post a bit wrong.

Im sure you might have glanced through my posts atleast once on this thread.

From last year itself I have been talking about how we must strike the Chinese first or strike the Pakistanis now that we have solidified our border against the Chinese. Even in the pakistan thread I keep talking about retaliation.

Fast forward a year I have completely lost any hope of the govt taking the war to chinese or Pakistanis.

It's not that I don't want us to take the fight to them its just that at this point I have understood the way our govt works and therefore I am pretty sure that we won't be attacking them. That's it.
I am sorry. It was not personal but for larger audience.
I understand your post was statement of fact seeing current dispensationโ€™s behaviour.
I have been making all sorts of judgements on this issue depending on the context. The new understanding I think is to call PLAโ€™s bluff out.
 

Blank

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We won't attack them first under any circumstance no matter how much we wish for it.

Logic would dictate us to heat loc to mount pressure on pak and relieve afganistan but with most of our army tied up in LAC we don't have many options left.

If the reports of pakistan moving it's troops to Afghan border are right it means that PLA has achieved half of its objectives without firing a shot.

Be it central asia sri lanka or myanmar there is a plan in motion to isolate us regionally in our own backyard.

We need to step up and counter them directly.
Our neighbours aren't that foolish. Go too far and we will make you irrelevant like Oli. You noticed other then some noise in Maldives. The rest of the neighborhood is silent now. That's how it should be.

Most of the countries are back again pro-india. Bangladesh, Myanmar, Nepal. Bhutan. Sri-Lanka is trouble but in time they will be back to our fold. It's inevitable like Thanos. In the subcontinent, we are the Emperors. Not some fucking snake who pretends to be a dragon.
 

Jimih

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You miss the entire point. Rashtriya Rifle soldiers are the most experienced and battle-hardened soldiers of the Indian army. If you get the chance, see their SoP, they fearlessly run into the gunfire and shoot down terrorists at point-blank range, without any fear for life.

If tomorrow shooting starts at the Ladakh border, you better be sure RR/Victor force soldiers will give absolute hell to the Chinese.



If you are referring to CT operations/encounters undertaken by NSG/Police commandos, then yes. Our counter-insurgency and anti-infiltration operations are full war level.
Forgot the intense shelling, cross-border raids, BAT attacks? Those are as intense as it can get as real war.
You have pointed out all the valid points here.

In mountainous high altitude terrains both armies will resort to CQB at many junctures as most of the mechanised and armoured columns will be rendered useless in these heights and narrow passes. There I see the utility of our RR batallions as they are the masters of intense 'close quarter battle'.
 

Knowitall

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I am sorry. It was not personal but for larger audience.
I understand your post was statement of fact seeing current dispensationโ€™s behaviour.
I have been making all sorts of judgements on this issue depending on the context. The new understanding I think is to call PLAโ€™s bluff out.
Been arguing for this from last year itself.

I was mocked on this forum by multiple members for stating more the time passes lesser the chances of conflict.

Everyone on this forum said just wait we are preparing ye wo and look more than a year has passed and instead of fighting them we have signed a ceasefire with pakistan.

Thus my pessimism.
 

Lost user

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Chinese scums who used to lecture us on being respectful to neighbour and to not being hegemonic are quite on PLA thuggery on our borders. Of course they have all the excuses which they have been inventing as they go. This primitive race is not our friend. Any exchange must be handled with maturity and knowing their inherited traits of back stabbing and lying with straight face.

Our response must not be forgiving this time. More discussion on this line has to be main streamed with good internet effect so that any confusion of political class must be mitigated. Their population centres being away is a blessing in disguise because they never care about their population on the first place. It is their solider who are more precious to them. More they amass on our borders better our chances of inflicting dearer harm on their national strength because soon you deplete them on LAC they will be left with nothing to defend on South Vietnam sea and on Siberian front. If Russia will not threaten them militarily they will for sure extract and blackmail them on many other non military fronts.

The PLA bluff must be called out when we are ready; better this year.
You are right here.. PLA is most dearest to CCP.. in fact the foreign service of China, ranks much below PLA in the hierarchy.. and that's why Modi's approach of having the Indian Army directly deal with the PLA ( than some babus) is welcome..
Hit their dear PLA, and make a point to not allow them a face, by showing dead PLA for all the world to see.. Allowing China face, hasn't got anybody anything..
 

Knowitall

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Our neighbours aren't that foolish. Go too far and we will make you irrelevant like Oli. You noticed other then some noise in Maldives. The rest of the neighborhood is silent now. That's how it should be.

Most of the countries are back again pro-india. Bangladesh, Myanmar, Nepal. Bhutan. Sri-Lanka is trouble but in time they will be back to our fold. It's inevitable like Thanos. In the subcontinent, we are the Emperors. Not some fucking snake who pretends to be a dragon.
I never understand where such delusions come from.

Inevitable like thanos?

You know what is inevitable bangladesh turning into a rabid anti India country after hassina sheik's exit. Already hindus are being persecuted in the area.

Myanmar conflict is already spilling into India with hordes of christians moving in changing demographics in the NE and our govt bowing to public pressure. Myanmar military junta is head in heels involved in trading weapons and materials with china.

Bhutan is already turing into a irrelevant place due to the amount of territory that has been annexed by china and their reluctance to raise the issue with us.

Maldives is an another ticking time bomb due to the demographics there.

And don't get me started on central asia where we barely have influence in a single country barring afghanistan.

Statements like we are emperors we are thanos reek of empty chest thumping when we are barely a 3 trillion dollar economy with minimal presence on global stage.
 

Tridev123

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Can we have a discussion on moving against the PLA in Tibet and Xinjiang.
We have already theorised about the forces and the plans necessary to annex POK.
And other parts of Pakistan proper.

But I think our strategic community has not war gamed an future Indian offensive to initially capture some part of Tibet and Xinjiang and eventually to liberate both provinces fully with the help of the local population.

What is the Chinese force structure and deployment in both these regions and what would we require to overwhelm them. Nowadays with satellite reconnaissance information on Chinese military infrastructure and assets in Tibet and Xinjiang will not be difficult to gather.

How many Mountain Strike Corps would be required and what type of equipment would be needed.

Military professionals can perhaps provide a broad outline of our strategy. After all if India continues to grow at 8% or above, we will have more options open to us against China. Planning for the future is good sense.
 

Lost user

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Wouldn't it then be more logical to deploy SFF itself, who's bread and butter it is that terrain
Rather than to Re-acclimatize and re-familiarise RR troops who operated in a completely different terrain for decades
There aren't that many of them.. Promoting SFF after Snow Leapard was more of a PR excercise or psy war against China
 

Blank

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You know what is inevitable bangladesh turning into a rabid anti India country after hassina sheik's exit. Already hindus are being persecuted in the area.
That has nothing to do with Bangladesh getting close with China. If anything, it will only make them nervous if India will say anything about the atrocities they are committing against Hindus. This is a form of leverage. They are surrounded from India on all sides. No amount of money from China will help them when India who encircles them goes against them.

Myanmar conflict is already spilling into India with hordes of christians moving in changing demographics in the NE and our govt bowing to public pressure. Myanmar military junta is head in heels involved in trading weapons and materials with china.
No, they aren't. Myanmar populace has deep suspicions of China. They dislike them. In the riots going on there, they destroyed many china infra. China was infuriated, but the junta didn't do anything much to Chinas displeasure. And they are still helping us in the insurgencies. I have Manipuri friend and they are like ''India isn't doing shit and the Junta is fucking Happy for that. "


Bhutan is already turing into a irrelevant place due to the amount of territory that has been annexed by china and their reluctance to raise the issue with us.
That was their own mistake. They thought appeasing China will do the job. At one point, they even wanted to switch sides.
But now that China is taking their lands, they realise who will stand for them. No way will they go towards. Because China is taking their lands due to us. In a way, even if they suck up to China. It won't matter cuz China wants to prove a point. Remaining with India is a necessity, not a choice.

Maldives is an another ticking time bomb due to the demographics there.
Maldives don't have to be a Hindu country to be pro-India. Quit this demographic shit. It makes us look weak. Are we that much wuss that only when a country is Hindu will be be okay with it? Might as well convert the world to Hindu then?
And don't get me started on central asia where we barely have influence in a single country barring afghanistan.
Central Asia is Russia's turf. We have no business to be in Business there. Let Russia fight with China there. Overextending influence is never good

Statements like we are emperors we are thanos reek of empty chest thumping when we are barely a 3 trillion dollar economy with minimal presence on global stage.
Why it's the truth? Regardless of whether we are 1 trillion or 30 trillion economy. We control the Indian heartland and the South together. It provides us immense advantage to project power. If we still can't control our own region. We were better off being in British hands. This is not chest thumping, it's the rule of geopolitics. Why even bother to be a superpower then?
 

Knowitall

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That has nothing to do with Bangladesh getting close with China. If anything, it will only make them nervous if India will say anything about the atrocities they are committing against Hindus. This is a form of leverage. They are surrounded from India on all sides. No amount of money from China will help them when India who encircles them goes against them.



No, they aren't. Myanmar populace has deep suspicions of China. They dislike them. In the riots going on there, they destroyed many china infra. China was infuriated, but the junta didn't do anything much to Chinas displeasure. And they are still helping us in the insurgencies. I have Manipuri friend and they are like ''India isn't doing shit and the Junta is fucking Happy for that. "




That was their own mistake. They thought appeasing China will do the job. At one point, they even wanted to switch sides.
But now that China is taking their lands, they realise who will stand for them. No way will they go towards. Because China is taking their lands due to us. In a way, even if they suck up to China. It won't matter cuz China wants to prove a point. Remaining with India is a necessity, not a choice.



Maldives don't have to be a Hindu country to be pro-India. Quit this demographic shit. It makes us look weak. Are we that much wuss that only when a country is Hindu will be be okay with it? Might as well convert the world to Hindu then?


Central Asia is Russia's turf. We have no business to be in Business there. Let Russia fight with China there. Overextending influence is never good



Why it's the truth? Regardless of whether we are 1 trillion or 30 trillion economy. We control the Indian heartland and the South together. It provides us immense advantage to project power. If we still can't control our own region. We were better off being in British hands. This is not chest thumping, it's the rule of geopolitics. Why even bother to be a superpower then?
That has nothing to do with Bangladesh getting close with China. If anything, it will only make them nervous if India will say anything about the atrocities they are committing against Hindus. This is a form of leverage. They are surrounded from India on all sides. No amount of money from China will help them when India who encircles them goes against them.
It has everything to do with china. Basically china does not even need to poke bangladesh to do anything all they need to do is wait and watch as bangladesh itself turns into a anti India country thuus electing anti India parties in elections.

Make them nervous?

This has to be a joke right. Hindus are already being persecuted in Afghanistan SA Pakistan and bangladesh infact they are being persecuted in Bengal too. I don't see any country being scared of India issuing statements when we can barely handle internal persecution.

1627197897392.png



No, they aren't. Myanmar populace has deep suspicions of China. They dislike them. In the riots going on there, they destroyed many china infra. China was infuriated, but the junta didn't do anything much to Chinas displeasure. And they are still helping us in the insurgencies. I have Manipuri friend and they are like ''India isn't doing shit and the Junta is fucking Happy for that. "
You see geo politics is a very complex issue and using your manipuri friend as a source is not the best of things.

Here is the statement from our own CDS.


From vaccines to business china has been gaining a edge ever since the coup took place.

''India isn't doing shit and the Junta is fucking Happy for that. "
You know why? this is why.


They are happy because instead of propping ip or supporting a democratic country we have chosen to ignore a junta which is trading with china. Ofcourse they are happy since the only power who can influence their area is ignoring them.

That was their own mistake. They thought appeasing China will do the job. At one point, they even wanted to switch sides.
But now that China is taking their lands, they realise who will stand for them. No way will they go towards. Because China is taking their lands due to us. In a way, even if they suck up to China. It won't matter cuz China wants to prove a point. Remaining with India is a necessity, not a choice.
They don't realize anything they just don't care. The current territories occupied by china give them immense leverage over bhutan which is why bhutan will continue to remain mum and not take sides. That is more than enough for china.

Maldives don't have to be a Hindu country to be pro-India. Quit this demographic shit. It makes us look weak. Are we that much wuss that only when a country is Hindu will be be okay with it? Might as well convert the world to Hindu then?
Brushing problems under the carpet does not mean they do not exist.



Radicalization is a serious issue and naive Hindus who fail to understand it will meet the same fate that Hindus in myanmar afghanistan pakistan and bangladesh have met.

Central Asia is Russia's turf. We have no business to be in Business there. Let Russia fight with China there. Overextending influence is never good
Ah it seems you have forgotten about POK which is Indian territory that shares a border with afganistan. What happens in central asia also influences our ability to retake pok. I will leave it at that.

Why it's the truth? Regardless of whether we are 1 trillion or 30 trillion economy. We control the Indian heartland and the South together. It provides us immense advantage to project power. If we still can't control our own region. We were better off being in British hands. This is not chest thumping, it's the rule of geopolitics. Why even bother to be a superpower then?
After clarifying your above statements i hope you understand the difference between having a good strategic location and influence over that area.

Good locations means nothing if you are unwilling and unable to use it.
 
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scatterStorm

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Are we facing some guerilla war type situation at LAC?
I think its via Nepal route.

For example, if you look at an ordinary infantry division in India, there are only tanks in the tank regiment, only trucks in the infantry regiment, and only towed artillery in the artillery regiment.



But China is different, a Chinese heavy synthetic brigade,
Four mobile battalions
(Two tank companies, two infantry fighting vehicle companies, one reconnaissance platoon, one support platoon, one engineer platoon, one medical platoon),
An artillery battalion,
(Two self-propelled howitzer batteries, one heavy anti-tank missile company, one self-propelled rocket launcher company, and one drone guided company)
A special operations battalion,
(Two mobile combat companies, two instrument communication companies, one UAV group)
A support camp
(Communications Brigade, Medical Brigade, Electronic Warfare Brigade, Equipment Repair Brigade, Psychological Warfare Brigade, and several transportation logistics brigade)
An engineering and chemical defense battalion
(Bridge Team, Barrier Break Team, Engineering Team, Chemical Team)
An air defense battalion
(Two HQ17A surface-to-air missile battalions, two self-propelled anti-aircraft artillery battalions)

Itโ€™s messy, right. This is this unit. It has a combination of multiple arms and a large number of auxiliary units. This brigade can launch a battle independently. It is more flexible, reduces the organization level, and increases the number of combat units. The combat effectiveness is actually better than the traditional one. The armored division is stronger

As for informatization, as mentioned above, so many different units need a large bandwidth data link to support. For example, now, the target data found by the tank can be directly transmitted to the fire control system of the self-propelled artillery, without the need for a separate artillery. Lead group
In the second example, in the past, only one army could guide the air force to support, but now one battalion can.
Now the Armyโ€™s surface-to-air missile search data can be automatically shared with Air Force aircraft.
As for combat effectiveness, in 2014, Chinaโ€™s first heavy synthetic brigade conducted an exercise with Chinaโ€™s best tank division, the 4th Armored Division, and the result was defeated within 24 hours, shocking the Chinese leaders.
Interesting, so basically an armor led special unit much like special forces have combination of all types of soldier expertise but with less infantry and more mechanized units.

So a small war fighting unit but with elevated situational awareness baked into the completing the mission.

But have you taken into the account of fighter jets MTOW from Hotan or Nagari, or less oxygen levels, or even the terrain. Data link is very shoddy at Himalayas, to give you an example, we've lost a couple of fighter jets at Arunachal due to bad weather alone.
 

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Ask Xi Jingping if he hates Ravan -> he will say he was bad and deserved to be killed

Ask Xi Jingping if he likes Rama -> he will reply "hahahahahah he was tricked and used"

Xi Jingping represents the latter it is not Chinese. It is not the right way. And the best is Rama knew and most important Sita knew and discovered much more. Jai Hind
 

omaebakabaka

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especially when there is a strong RW gov at helm. It is not rational to threaten one your largest business partner.
I think we are doing ourselves a disfavor by claiming RW when the current govt is only pro Bharat and believes in indigenous lifestyle and traditions vs the scum that ruled for decades. Giving it a RW classification is too simplistic and has nothing to do with it in a definition sense.
 

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