India-China 2020 Border conflict

Maharaj samudragupt

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India has 2500 BMP2s .. T-72 engines in ladakh are uprated, along with Armour and FCS. The Indo China LAC is not a plateau like Tibet, but very mountaineous. So, maneuverability of Chinese vehicles is limited.. As you saw your Chinese super soldiers slugging it out on Pangong tso cliffs in stone bunkers.. there are only so many places vehicles can go..
India has more than 2400 105 mm artillery, which can be slugged from mountains to mountains with helicopters.. so, we don't need to "Imagine if this force appears".. We routinely hit Pakistani armoured vehicles in POK, with precision artillery .. So, just imagine your force traveling on a narrow road along the LAC, and what awaits them.. There is only so much winning without fighting dude. Sun Chutiya can take you only so far.:hat:
What is range of 105 mm , plus do you know the types of artillery ammunition we use on 105 mm
 

The Shrike

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How does that matter, they will carry out ops despite the hatred. There are many in IA as well who hate the present and past leaders, but have no option but to follow orders from Delhi.
China is run by an organised group of thugs called the Chinese Communist Party (CCP). And the Peoples Liberation Army (PLA) is the military arm of the CCP, they owe their allegiance to the Party and not the country or their people. The head of the CCP, chairman Xi, is in his position because he is the most cut throat thug in the CCP, and is able to stay in the position by having the loyalty of the lesser thugs in lower positions of power. First thing he did after climbing to the top post was consolidated his position by purging his opposition, and these include senior officers in PLA (this time it happened via "anti corruption drive" with official trials etc, but back in the wilder era of Stalin and Mao it meant a trip to the gulag, public stoning, "suicide by 3 shots in the back of the head" etc.), and promoting his lackeys instead. So when Chairman Xi walks into a room full of PLA officers, at the back of his mind he is always thinking about which officers are loyal to him and which ones are not (and therefore need to be purged). And just like @lixun in his school, some of those officers who are are applauding enthusiastically are actually gritting their teeth and waiting for the opportune time stab Xi (and his fraction) in the back and occupy power themselves.
 

Bhumihar

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I think Chinas main population centers Distance from the border areas is its biggest source of paranoia.
No matter how good your military, if the terrain does not favor u then its a uphill task to win a war.
Now what role does population center have to play in this? Well a barren land is way more easier to capture than say a populated land even more so in case of Tibet region.
Chinas recent boost to infra seems to suggest that they don't want to get caught off guard. They will try to deny us the first strike advantage no matter what.

The Only sign of relief for China is that we ourselves every bit poor in terms of border infra but hopefully this wont last for very long as things have picked up pace since 2019.

China would want to keep its full fighting capability such that they won't need to depend upon mainland supply for a good while.
 

RoaringTigerHiddenDragon

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I think Chinas main population centers Distance from the border areas is its biggest source of paranoia.
No matter how good your military, if the terrain does not favor u then its a uphill task to win a war.
Now what role does population center have to play in this? Well a barren land is way more easier to capture than say a populated land even more so in case of Tibet region.
Chinas recent boost to infra seems to suggest that they don't want to get caught off guard. They will try to deny us the first strike advantage no matter what.

The Only sign of relief for China is that we ourselves every bit poor in terms of border infra but hopefully this wont last for very long as things have picked up pace since 2019.

China would want to keep its full fighting capability such that they won't need to depend upon mainland supply for a good while.
This strategy has a limit. Chinese economy is tanking and they can no longer finance infrastructure builds by printing money backed by bad loans. And they are never going to win over Tibetans no matter what they do as Tibetans are now settled all over the world and are heavily exposed to their culture and history like never before. Plus the Tibetans are keeping their culture alive by teaching their children their language and customs and this has become very easy and widely prevalent with the internet/ remote teaching systems.
 

HitmanBlood

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The Chinese military have been carrying out these fashion show ramp walking exercises since the past one year. Probably trying desperately to unnerve India and win the battle without shedding blood.

If they are so confident of their superiority why have they not fired a single bullet till now. What are they waiting for?.

The Chinese Communist Party leadership and the PLA generals know fully well that an actual war with the Indian Army will lead to numerous casualties. It will certainly not be one sided. The Indian Infantry is a battle hardened force having fought both the Pakistan Army and the terrorists.

And most importantly the fighting terrain is mostly mountainous. Attacking forces sometimes need to have a numerical superiority of 10:1 to make rapid advances.

The PLA never tires of displaying its rocket artillery but can they hit reverse slopes of hills and mountains.

I anticipate the IAF will gain the upper hand against the PLAAF early because of the Rafale -Meteor missile combo. The PLAAF can only desperately hope that the J20 will even the battle. But is it fully operational and what are its capabilities. If even one J20 is shot down by a Rafale the Chinese claims of technological superiority will be exposed before the world. Can the Chinese risk putting the J20 into battle against India.

An India - China war will be a Public Relations disaster for the Chinese. It will paint them as aggressors in Asia and push many countries in Asia to seek military alliances with Washington. Foreign Direct Investment in China will nosedive and many companies will quit China.

The arrival of dead bodies of Chinese soldiers in their cities and villages will be a hard reality check. The super hero image of the PLA will be punctured.

India will also see deaths but we have a long tradition of making sacrifices and honouring our brave hearts.

So don't think war with India will be a picnic. The PLA might well regret provoking India.

Another unknown factor is the reaction of the US and its allies to the war between India and China. The West may well decide to support India morally and materially.
Can China take on both India and the US alliance together.

I personally don't believe that all common Chinese people support a war against India. This course of aggression is mainly pursued by the CCP dictatorship and PLA hardliners.
You are thinking rationally. This rational thinking was the reason why we never took Chinese threat seriously. Under Xi China is no longer a rational nation. It is not rational to provoke 4th most powerful country in the world especially when there is a strong RW gov at helm. It is not rational to threaten one your largest business partner.

Xi is trying hard to be next Mao. In doing so he is also dragging China in the dark days of Mao. They are burning their bridges with every nation in the world. Their diplomats are giving cheap threats to other countries. Their behaviour latey has become like Pakis. Act first and deal with consequences later. We should treat Chinese with the same caution as we do with Pakis.
 

lixun

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The Chinese military have been carrying out these fashion show ramp walking exercises since the past one year. Probably trying desperately to unnerve India and win the battle without shedding blood.

If they are so confident of their superiority why have they not fired a single bullet till now. What are they waiting for?.

The Chinese Communist Party leadership and the PLA generals know fully well that an actual war with the Indian Army will lead to numerous casualties. It will certainly not be one sided. The Indian Infantry is a battle hardened force having fought both the Pakistan Army and the terrorists.

And most importantly the fighting terrain is mostly mountainous. Attacking forces sometimes need to have a numerical superiority of 10:1 to make rapid advances.

The PLA never tires of displaying its rocket artillery but can they hit reverse slopes of hills and mountains.

I anticipate the IAF will gain the upper hand against the PLAAF early because of the Rafale -Meteor missile combo. The PLAAF can only desperately hope that the J20 will even the battle. But is it fully operational and what are its capabilities. If even one J20 is shot down by a Rafale the Chinese claims of technological superiority will be exposed before the world. Can the Chinese risk putting the J20 into battle against India.

An India - China war will be a Public Relations disaster for the Chinese. It will paint them as aggressors in Asia and push many countries in Asia to seek military alliances with Washington. Foreign Direct Investment in China will nosedive and many companies will quit China.

The arrival of dead bodies of Chinese soldiers in their cities and villages will be a hard reality check. The super hero image of the PLA will be punctured.

India will also see deaths but we have a long tradition of making sacrifices and honouring our brave hearts.

So don't think war with India will be a picnic. The PLA might well regret provoking India.

Another unknown factor is the reaction of the US and its allies to the war between India and China. The West may well decide to support India morally and materially.
Can China take on both India and the US alliance together.

I personally don't believe that all common Chinese people support a war against India. This course of aggression is mainly pursued by the CCP dictatorship and PLA hardliners.
I can only say that if Modi thinks the same way, it will be lucky for China
 

Tridev123

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You are thinking rationally. This rational thinking was the reason why we never took Chinese threat seriously. Under Xi China is no longer a rational nation. It is not rational to provoke 4th most powerful country in the world especially when there is a strong RW gov at helm. It is not rational to threaten one your largest business partner.

Xi is trying hard to be next Mao. In doing so he is also dragging China in the dark days of Mao. They are burning their bridges with every nation in the world. Their diplomats are giving cheap threats to other countries. Their behaviour latey has become like Pakis. Act first and deal with consequences later. We should treat Chinese with the same caution as we do with Pakis.
It would be ideal if they come under pressure on the Taiwan front and North Korea does something foolish raising the spectre of war between the North and the South. Japan should also start flexing its muscles. They are very strong conventionally. They don't need to be worried over China's nuclear weapons as the US provides an security umbrella.

The biggest reality check will be if they slip down to sub 5% economic growth and India grows above 10%.This only means that India will be in a better position to support the extended forward deployment of our forces.

How long can two big armies forward deploy hundreds of thousands of troops.
The Chinese should feel the pressure to seek peace and withdraw.

The Chinks are trying to test our nerve. It won't work against India.
 

lixun

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India has 2500 BMP2s .. T-72 engines in ladakh are uprated, along with Armour and FCS. The Indo China LAC is not a plateau like Tibet, but very mountaineous. So, maneuverability of Chinese vehicles is limited.. As you saw your Chinese super soldiers slugging it out on Pangong tso cliffs in stone bunkers.. there are only so many places vehicles can go..
India has more than 2400 105 mm artillery, which can be slugged from mountains to mountains with helicopters.. so, we don't need to "Imagine if this force appears".. We routinely hit Pakistani armoured vehicles in POK, with precision artillery .. So, just imagine your force traveling on a narrow road along the LAC, and what awaits them.. There is only so much winning without fighting dude. Sun Chutiya can take you only so far.:hat:
If I remember correctly, India’s 105mm artillery is the British L7 howitzer in the 1950s. The main equipment of the Indian Mountain Division’s artillery regiment (in fact, not as good as the D30) is far behind. The more advanced FN77 is also the last century. From the 1980s, there are 30 M777s. This is relatively advanced, but it is still a towed artillery, and it is 39 times the caliber. I remember that India has bought less than 100 K9s. This is considered relatively advanced and can provide a certain amount of In the past, the Indian armored division only had towed artillery.
 

lixun

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India has 2500 BMP2s .. T-72 engines in ladakh are uprated, along with Armour and FCS. The Indo China LAC is not a plateau like Tibet, but very mountaineous. So, maneuverability of Chinese vehicles is limited.. As you saw your Chinese super soldiers slugging it out on Pangong tso cliffs in stone bunkers.. there are only so many places vehicles can go..
India has more than 2400 105 mm artillery, which can be slugged from mountains to mountains with helicopters.. so, we don't need to "Imagine if this force appears".. We routinely hit Pakistani armoured vehicles in POK, with precision artillery .. So, just imagine your force traveling on a narrow road along the LAC, and what awaits them.. There is only so much winning without fighting dude. Sun Chutiya can take you only so far.:hat:
As for the BMP2, no matter how it is changed, this is also an old armored car, just like the AK47, no matter how it is changed, it cannot be compared with the HK416.
First of all, India has only one regiment of BMP2 at the border between China and India. Secondly, the BMP2 of India’s armored forces is used independently as regiment-level units. There is also only one brigade of BMP2 in the Indian mechanized infantry division. Because this was the mainstream international army formation method in the early days of the Cold War,
 

indiatester

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https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...-says-seafarers-body/articleshow/84720445.cms

China ‘ban’ on entry of Indian sailors, says seafarers’ body
Surendra Singh / TNN / Jul 25, 2021, 03:15 IST
1627187902642.png

Cargo being unloaded from a commercial vessel at the Shanghai port (File photo)

NEW DELHI: A seafarer workers’ union has claimed that Indian sailors are losing jobs on China-bound commercial vessels as Beijing has imposed an unofficial ban and is not allowing ships with Indian crew members to berth at Chinese ports.
The All India Seafarer & General Workers’ Union said it has written a letter to Minister of Ports, Shipping & Waterways Sarbananda Sonowal, the directorate general of shipping and the ministry of external affairs on the unofficial “ban” on Indian seafarers from entering Chinese waters as a result of which “21,000 Indian sailors are facing job losses, directly or indirectly”.
Talking to TOI, Abhijeet Sangle, working president of the Union, alleged, “It’s China’s tactics to isolate our seafarers so as to provide better prospects to its sailors. We have written a letter to Union minister Sarbananda Sonowal, DG shipping a and MEA to seriously look into the issue. In fact, I have sent a letter to foreign minister S Jaishankar separately, requesting him to take immediate action.
Earlier, this year, our Indian sailors faced a similar problem when China did not allow two foreign ships with Indian crew to berth at its port as a result of which our crew of over 40 members were stranded off China for several weeks.”
When TOI enquired about the union’s letter, DG (Shipping) Amitabh Kumar said, “We have not received any official communication from either the Chinese government or the ministry of external affairs about any such ban. Our data doesn’t suggest anything of that sort (that over 21,000 sailors are facing any job problem). These are personal views of some people. We can't keep reacting to everyone's views.” MEA sources also said they had no knowledge of the letter.
Captain Sanjay Parashar, member of the National Shipping Board, told TOI that China is now dictating terms. “It has asked foreign shipping companies that they can lift or unload the cargo from China only if they agree to its terms, which is not to employ Indian crew on board their vessels if they want to enter the Chinese waters. There is a commercial cost to it. Either you have to divert your ship which means adding to your fuel cost or replace the Indian crew, which too costs the company a lot— replacing a crew of five members costs around $300,000 to $500,000. This is basically China’s ‘goondagardi’ as it wants to flex its muscles,” he said, adding that the “issue can be resolved only through diplomacy”.
Capt Rakesh Coelho, head of the India branch of a UK-based shipping company, told TOI, “The Chinese restrictions against Indian crew started somewhere in March.
But its stand hardened up especially after the second wave of Covid. Though China is not giving any official explanation for such a boycott, some consider Indians in the high-risk category due to the Delta variant. But this is a hollow explanation as Delta cases are now found in so many countries." Our sailors are among the best in the industry. But because of China’s move, shipping companies especially based in the US, UK and western Europe whose vessels are China-bound have stopped employing the Indian crew. In fact, such companies are now taking more Filipinos, Vietnamese and Chinese nationals.” He said India should reciprocate China’s move by banning its sailors.
Indian sailors constitute a dominant force in the shipping industry. Till last year, India sent around 2.4 lakh sea-farers annually. Of them, 2.1 lakh sea-farers worked on foreign ships and 30,000 on Indian ships.
 

lixun

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India has 2500 BMP2s .. T-72 engines in ladakh are uprated, along with Armour and FCS. The Indo China LAC is not a plateau like Tibet, but very mountaineous. So, maneuverability of Chinese vehicles is limited.. As you saw your Chinese super soldiers slugging it out on Pangong tso cliffs in stone bunkers.. there are only so many places vehicles can go..
India has more than 2400 105 mm artillery, which can be slugged from mountains to mountains with helicopters.. so, we don't need to "Imagine if this force appears".. We routinely hit Pakistani armoured vehicles in POK, with precision artillery .. So, just imagine your force traveling on a narrow road along the LAC, and what awaits them.. There is only so much winning without fighting dude. Sun Chutiya can take you only so far.:hat:
1627187655560.png

If you are talking about this kind of mountain, there is no vehicle to go up, and we don’t need to catch you everywhere. One of the principles of China’s war in Tibet is to use artillery firepower and air strikes instead of light infantry attacks like in 1962. The principle of the use of infantry is not to use the main force of the enemy, but to use its mobile advantage to destroy the enemy’s roads, logistics supply points, air defense positions, headquarters, communication networks and other high-value targets, and weaken the enemy’s combat capabilities.
 

Pig benis on sushy

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As for the BMP2, no matter how it is changed, this is also an old armored car, just like the AK47, no matter how it is changed, it cannot be compared with the HK416.
First of all, India has only one regiment of BMP2 at the border between China and India. Secondly, the BMP2 of India’s armored forces is used independently as regiment-level units. There is also only one brigade of BMP2 in the Indian mechanized infantry division. Because this was the mainstream international army formation method in the early days of the Cold War,
Comparing bmp as ak47 and new vechiles as hk416 where is the logic ? I would whole heartedly take 5.56 in my ass rather than 7.62 hope you get this logic
 

hit&run

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Chinese scums who used to lecture us on being respectful to neighbour and to not being hegemonic are quite on PLA thuggery on our borders. Of course they have all the excuses which they have been inventing as they go. This primitive race is not our friend. Any exchange must be handled with maturity and knowing their inherited traits of back stabbing and lying with straight face.

Our response must not be forgiving this time. More discussion on this line has to be main streamed with good internet effect so that any confusion of political class must be mitigated. Their population centres being away is a blessing in disguise because they never care about their population on the first place. It is their solider who are more precious to them. More they amass on our borders better our chances of inflicting dearer harm on their national strength because soon you deplete them on LAC they will be left with nothing to defend on South Vietnam sea and on Siberian front. If Russia will not threaten them militarily they will for sure extract and blackmail them on many other non military fronts.

The PLA bluff must be called out when we are ready; better this year.
 

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