India - Australia Relations

no smoking

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
5,000
Likes
2,302
Country flag
Taiwan (ROC) singed NPT and part of IAEA (earlier) and when did PRC sign NPT later. Do IAEA have inspections in taiwan and PRC and under what framework for civil nuclear supply by australia and under what compliances if supply used for military.
PRC is a nuclear power state recognised by IAEA which means PRC doesn't need IAEA's inspections. Certainly Australian can require the no military use of the uranium supplied by them in the contract.

That means Taiwan is a "unrecognised state abiding by the treaty". Can taiwan use uranium supply by australia to make a bomb. Will PRC place sanctions on australia for allowing this.
No, Taiwan won't because American won't allow it. Last time, it was American shut down Taiwanese effort to produce a nuclear bomb.

But what about unrecognised nuclear weapon state ?? It says China in NPT and taiwan signed it first - and there is one state policy and there is two signatory by PRC and ROC to NPT !!
Taiwan please declare yourself a nuclear weapons area .
Taiwanese isn't that stupid: they may have a chance to win in a conventional war with the aid of Americans, in a nuclear war they are doomed.
 

Abhijat

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
648
Likes
840
Country flag
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/india-australia-seal-ndeal-procedures/article7881115.ece

India, Australia seal N-deal procedures

India announced on Sunday that the procedures for a civil nuclear agreement with Australia for supply of uranium from it had been completed following a bilateral meeting between Prime Minister Narendra Modi and his counterpart, Malcolm Turnbull, on the sidelines of the G-20 Summit here.

External Affairs Ministry spokesman Vikas Swarup tweeted that the two Prime Ministers had announced the completion of the procedures. No official statement from Australia was immediately available.

“PM Modi thanked PM Trunbull and described the nuclear agreement as a milestone and source of trust and confidence,” Mr. Swarup tweeted.

Last month, speaking to presspersons in Delhi, Australian Trade and Investment Minister Andrew Robb said the Australian Parliament was expected to ratify the nuclear cooperation agreement that the two countries had signed in September 2014.

Australia has about a third of world’s recoverable uranium resources and exports nearly 7,000 tonnes of it a year.

Following the conclusion of the agreement, India will be the first country to buy Australian uranium without being a signatory to the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty.
 

Compersion

Senior Member
Joined
May 6, 2013
Messages
2,258
Likes
923
Country flag
Taiwanese isn't that stupid: they may have a chance to win in a conventional war with the aid of Americans, in a nuclear war they are doomed.
It is good to hear from you. Will apologize for the long reply but it is a fun topic and i have talked this with many chinese people and it is always different responses by them. never ever a simple reply. sometimes they spit out their beers (on to the side of the table - out of courtesy) and say forget it lets talk about democracy in PRC because it is easier.

I am also not talking and saying about PRC nuclear doctrine and also legal and status and not even the ease and method at which it has got its status and also the status of PRC before 1990s which can be a funny discussion.

What i am talking about is Taiwan nuclear and legal and status according to international law and customs.

It is simple:

1) Make Taiwan be exactly the same to PRC under one china principle. A nuclear weapon state.

if not:

2) Make Taiwan to be sovereign nation recognized by everyone. But that opens up question about Taiwan NPT and Nuclear status and since it is open to question they can test and become a nuclear weapon state. If someone says they have already signed NPT -> but under what -> nuclear weapon state?? Lets say they have not signed and they ought to sign but sign under what.

Here comes the sweetened dessert will PRC accept Taiwan to be independent state if Taiwan will declare them to be non-nuclear weapon state -> goes against One-China principle you see KMT and Taiwan how will they control Mainland if they are non-nuclear weapon independent state. It is a good calculation to get Taiwan to be independent by PRC if they in return declare non-nuclear weapon state. But what about guarantee PRC will not use nuclear weapon against Taiwan (like Deng Xia Ping would spit it out in the pan). What about One Country Two Nuclear Weapon Areas.

if not:

3) That is where the "unrecognised state abiding by the treaty" comes from. A way of saying f%^& the international and legal and customs. You know abiding by the treaty to be a nuclear weapon state - non-nuclear weapon state but what!! You know where Japan and Australia says they will not provide and support nuclear technology and supply to anyone outside the CTBT and NPT but with Taiwan F^&* that. You know keep India waiting because it does it properly. You know supply Taiwan because Japan , Australia and USA want to treat PRC with respect.

Even Pakistan (by following India) does not have such complications like PRC, Taiwan and PRC (China) and One-China principle. You do know it is derogatory if someone say Pakistan is better. Pakistan supplied blueprints to Nuclear plant to PRC but who cares.

Now in addition to the above three choices we also add in other terms and such different terms for China like the below:
- PRC
- PRC (China)
- Taiwan (China)
- Taiwan
- None of Above China (USA)
- None of above (others)
- None of the above

Nuclear status in each of the above please!!

And ironically the fact is if Taiwan and KMT loose hope and see less chance of eventually ruling and controlling the mainland the more they will consider developing a strong(er) deterrent. Because simply the hope that KMT and people of the values and beliefs rules from Taiwan (rule of law and democracy) and control mainland is the reason why Taiwan is not too adventurous on its nuclear status. But it does not signify that they cannot be.



(what nuclear status is the Ties they are wearing)

Has Taiwan made a effort to develop nuclear weapons. like you said the USA had "disabled" a previous effort. Did Taiwan sign non-nuclear pact thereafter like a sovereign nation like South Africa. Is it like a on and off switch. And afterwards has USA stationed nuclear weapons in Taiwan. The significance of that is that USA has and is providing Taiwan nuclear umbrella but again under what agreement. Why would Taiwan give up the Nuclear weapons status that easily. Can you have nuclear weapons stationed in your territory outside NPT and CTBT and even NSG. Some difficult legal questions.

The one-china principle is "hope" that one side will eventually rule the other. It plain and simple. Take that away from table it is different ball game all together. Send missiles over Taiwan the USA will come by mandatory legislation. But threaten Taiwan with nuclear weapons ...

Is it PRC will declare that nuclear weapon will not be used against Taiwan. That would not be stupid.

You talk about Pakistan sending mortars accross the border with India. Why not do some between Taiwan and PRC to strengthen the trust.

But you say Taiwan has chance they will win conventionally against PRC. Also there is USA. Is it PRC will not use nuclear weapons against Taiwan if no one else does (no first use policy). Is it PRC will only use nuclear weapons if USA is defending Taiwan. What is the position of nuclear weapons use on Taiwan by PRC (brotherly blood joining and no one will break them apart). Will PRC kill and destroy their brothers.

One does not want to invade a place where they nuke it right !!





Now the international community was given a wonderful taste and flavor by PRC on international and legal rules by way of North Korea nuclear testing. Was it because of the Taiwan nuclear question that PRC made such a move. I would like to see your analysis on that. Why did PRC allow and support North Korea testing nuclear weapons (some say it was a PRC neutron test).

On top of North Korea did anyone also say Pakistan ...

You see both Pakistan and North Korea does not have strong chance to win in a conventional setting against india and others and also in nuclear war they are doomed. YET they apparently have nuclear weapon. They further share a land border and Taiwan and PRC does not (if we do not consider the Kinmen and Matsu). Is it PRC supports such proxy and buffer states when it is only in their favor and when a state that has been threatened with "unification" by force has the reason for nuclear weapon capability it is considered wise they do not ... is it nuclear weapon provides stability of existence to weakened areas. Is it Taiwan feels confident of their military support from USA. Is it keeping the same relationship with PRC suits them and sensing PRC will change and not Taiwan. Why Taiwan not declaring itself nuclear weapon state !! Is it not insulting to PRC that Taiwan does not want to have its own nuclear weapons. You use the words they are not "stupid".

When was PRC recongised to be a nuclear weapon state. please mention the dates the NPT was signed and ratified by PRC. Has Taiwan signed NPT and how is Taiwan supplied Uranium from Australia and tech from Japan and even USA and others. And what about One China Principle. Forget that India supplied some heavy water to USA can we do that to Taiwan ... what will PRC say ?? please respect One-China principle ... talking like Pakistan.

Some might say it is better to disable one china principle because of the absurdity and complications it brings to world order and stability. There is a area of chinese people that is outside the ambit of international laws and customs and is clearly in contradiction to making and getting others to do the same. The solution is to either make Taiwan exactly the same to PRC (nuclear weapon state) if not make Taiwan a independent sovereign state. And in both at this current moment they hold true. 20+ countries hold Taiwan to be independent sovereign state and also majority consider one china principle. USA voted against the resolution on one china principle what does that mean.

The funny thing is USA are really sticky and careful on rules and procedures. And PRC is sticky and careful on its UNSC and NPT status (they got from Taiwan). Getting PRC to get a new UNSC status and NPT?? Oh no no no no no no please.

Does Taiwan have military weapon systems that can carry nuclear weapons. How far can Taiwan military systems including missiles and jets go. For example shanghai free trade zone is that reachable (might be better to go after more valuable targets).

I am only being sarcastic and please do not take it too seriously and it is credit to Chinese people and PRC and Taiwan that they are managing their relationship in a cordial manner and having the status qua where everything remains the same today. That is today and i appreciate the sense and pragmatism that it brings. But there is a saying when 1 Chinese person handles a problem it is good. When 2 and more do it becomes complicated.

When PRC plays and bend international laws into grey areas they must not complain if Taiwan is also doing that also. And they are doing it with intent and also purpose.

 
Last edited:

Cutting Edge 2

Space Power
Regular Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2017
Messages
984
Likes
1,969
Japan and Australia seek to restart security grouping with India and US

Senator Marise Payne, Foreign Minister Julie Bishop meet with Prime Minister of Japan Shinzo Abe in Tokyo. KEN SHIMIZU
by Angus Grigg

Australia and Japan are pushing to restart a controversial Howard-era security grouping with India and the United States, which angered China at the time as it was viewed as an effort to contain its influence in the region.

Defence Minister Marise Payne said the possible re-formation of the grouping would be raised during meetings her and Foreign Minister Julie Bishop were holding in Tokyo on Thursday.

"Australia is very interested in a quadrilateral engagement with India, Japan and the United States, what form that may take is a matter of discussion between our various countries," Ms Payne said.

"These are matters for consideration by governments."


It is understood Japan is leading discussions to restart what was previously called the "Quadrilateral Security Dialogue", but Australia is also strongly supportive of the push.


"All four countries agree it is a good idea it's just a matter of what form it takes,"
said one person involved in the discussions.

The source said the US was generally supportive of the idea, while India was yet to commit. They are debating whether it would be confined to defence co-operation or include a leaders' meeting or foreign ministers' dialogue.

Closer security arrangements between Australia and India were the subtext of Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull's recent visit to New Delhi, although the idea of the four-way dialogue was not explicitly mentioned.

"The strategic interests of our two nations are clearly converging," Mr Turnbull said in a speech during the visit in early April.


"Co-operation on regional stability sits squarely in the interests of both our nations."

Mr Turnbull and Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi also spoke of the need to uphold the rule of law in the region, which is diplomat language for pressuring China to behave responsibly around territorial disputes in the South China Sea.

Australia's former Ambassador in Beijing, Geoff Raby, said any move to restart the grouping would be seen by China as a way to contain its rise.

"It is in no one's interest to set ideological fault lines across the region and if it is now the Australian government's policy to contain China then it is a major shift in our foreign policy stance," he said via phone.

"If this is a grouping of regional democracies, then why is South Korea or Taiwan not included?"

Mr Raby said the idea of reforming the group was "ill-judged", especially as it was being led by Japan, which has such a frosty relationship with China.

The four-way dialogue was initiated by Japanese Prime Minister, Shinzo Abe, during his first term as leader, supported by former Prime Minister John Howard.

It quickly became a point of tension in Australia's relationship with China.

Kevin Rudd withdrew from the dialogue shortly after becoming Prime Minister in 2007, although the group was already foundering.

Japanese efforts to revive the group with the support of Australia form part of the Turnbull government's increasingly tough stance on China.

In a speech in Singapore last month, Ms Bishop said China could not expect to lead or shape the region as it was not a democracy.

"While non-democracies such as China can thrive when participating in the present system, an essential pillar of our preferred order is democratic community," she said.


Ms Bishop and Ms Payne are in Tokyo for the so called "2+2 dialogue", a bi-lateral meeting hosted by Japan's Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida and defence minister Tomomi Inada.


Read more: http://www.afr.com/news/world/asia/...th-india-and-us-20170420-gvoxl6#ixzz4ep6dwuX0
 

Cutting Edge 2

Space Power
Regular Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2017
Messages
984
Likes
1,969
An article from IDN about Chinese influence in Australia. Very important development. This may impact future Indian-Australian relationship.
IDN TAKE: Australian Sovereignty Under Threat From Influence of China's Communist Party

A five-month investigation reveals the extent of Beijing's influence in Australian politics and Chinese communities

by Shinod Raghavan


The Communist Party keeps watch over the 150,000-strong Chinese students studying in Australian universities by controlling the Chinese Students' and Scholars' Associations.

The Four Corners-Fairfax investigation will show how the Chinese Embassy in Canberra orchestrated a mass student rally to welcome Premier Li Keqiang in March and stressed the importance of blocking out anti-Communist protesters.

And it will detail how a "spontaneous" demonstration pushing China's sovereignty over the South China Sea in Melbourne last year was coordinated by one of the many Australian-based Chinese-language media companies that acts as a propaganda arm for Beijing.

Those few media companies that don't toe the party line face the threat of being driven out of business.

Don Ma, who owns the independent Vision China Times, told the Four Corner-Fairfax team that 10 of his advertisers pulled their cash after being threatened by Chinese officials.


The Australian Values Alliance (AVA), which was established last year by Australians with Chinese heritage, warned "foreign power" was trying to infiltrate all levels of government and the education system.

"The infiltration of the Chinese Communist Party into Australian society damaging core values," Australian Values Alliance founder John Hu said.

"In Australia we believe in freedom and democracy and the teaching they have is totally on the contrary."

Chinese students were particularly prone to interference from the Communist regime in Beijing, the AVA said, suggesting compulsory "Australian values" education be conducted as part of university orientation.

We request that legislation be introduced to include Australian values education as part of compulsory induction program for all international students, especially those from authoritarian regimes," the group said.

In an eight point policy statement, the organisation also called for new legislation to compel elected members of all levels of government and senior civil servants "to disclose their foreign business interests and foreign assets to avoid conflicts of interest".

AVA members argued recent reporting by the ABC's Four Corners program had highlighted foreign money and political donations were influencing decision making in Australia.

The organisation also warned Beijing was controlling much of the Chinese language media and many Chinese community associations, while "brainwashing and monitoring Chinese expatriates and migrants in Australia". (Adapted text from ABC News)

http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2017/08/idn-take-australian-sovereignty-under.html
 

Gautam Sarkar

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2019
Messages
471
Likes
2,346
Country flag
Fascinating article w/ many angles: Australia-India ties, Chinese economic coercion,

🍺

, barley, "weed seed protocols" & even

🐌



 

Gautam Sarkar

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2019
Messages
471
Likes
2,346
Country flag
India and Australia on Thursday inked a landmark agreement for reciprocal access to military bases for logistics support besides firming up six more pacts to further broadbase ties after Prime Minister Narendra Modi and his Australian counterpart Scott Morrison held an online summit.

The Mutual Logistics Support Agreement (MLSA) will allow militaries of the two countries to use each other's bases for repair and replenishment of supplies besides facilitating scaling up of overall defence cooperation. India has already signed similar agreements with the US, France and Singapore.

The other pacts will provide for bilateral cooperation in areas of cyber and cyber-enabled critical technology, mining and minerals, military technology, vocational education and water resources management.
In the talks, the two sides also deliberated on a host of key issues including dealing with growing threat of terrorism, maritime security challenges in the Indo-Pacific region, reform in the World Trade Organisation and ways to deal with the coronavirus crisis.

According to a joint statement issued after the Modi-Morrison talks, both sides discussed the issue of taxation of offshore income of Indian firms through the use of the India-Australia Double Taxation Avoidance Agreement (DTAA) and sought early resolution of the issue. It said both sides also decided to re-engage on a bilateral Comprehensive Economic Cooperation Agreement (CECA) while suitably considering earlier bilateral discussions where a mutually agreed way forward can be found.

More :

 

Tshering22

Sikkimese Saber
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2010
Messages
7,869
Likes
23,213
Country flag
I think this has less to do with the Australian State and more to do with the nexus of Khalistanis operating from these countries. Not to mention the fact that Australia is a part of the Five Eyes Agreement (FEA) and that enables the CIA to use Australia as a launchpad to destabilize countries in the adjoining region.

The Australian, it seems has editors who are on CIA's and the US deep state's payrolls. It would be unwise for us to neglect the relentless US targeting of Indian interests through their satellite states in the Asia Pacific.

If you see the pattern, much of the toolkit nonsense has emerged from countries that host a significant Khalistani and Pakistani population: UK, Australia, Canada, USA. There is a reason why the US and these countries give open refugee status to so many people around the world; so that they can be used as deep cover assets against the countries from where they run away or escape.

Have you ever seen the US handing over any Khalistani to India? That too, when we have always supported the US initiatives in the region. The US has a problem that India has a native set of cultures and a spiritual fabric that stands on its own, despite the onslaught of Abrahamism. This irritation has further magnified since the ascension of PM Modi as our ruler. The amendment to the FCRA Act, the introduction of CAA and NRC has further pissed off the US deep state who used churches as a tool to infiltrate into India.

Australia might be a US ally, but as a nation state, it is at best neutrally friendly to us and keeps away from our matters.
 

Kailash Kumar

New Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2021
Messages
3
Likes
1
Country flag
India-Australia early FTA set to cover half of goods trade

Aug 28, 2021

NEW DELHI: As half of a Comprehensive Economic Cooperation Agreement (CECA), India and Australia are wanting to conclude an early harvest scheme — overlaying tariff cuts on objects that account for practically half the trade in addition to simpler guidelines for service sectors — by December, over a decade after talks first began.

If the negotiations go as per plan, this would be the first amongst a set of trade offers that India is wanting to clinch, with talks with the European Union, the United Kingdom, Canada and the UAE being pursued. While negotiations on many of them had began nearly a decade in the past, they’re being pushed extra aggressively after India exited a dialogue to be half of RCEP, the trade grouping with China, Japan, Korea, Australia, New Zealand the Asean nations.

There are, nevertheless, gaps that want to be narrowed down with Australia. For occasion, when it comes to trade facilitation, India is unwilling to transcend what it has dedicated on the WTO. Plus, it has had issues over permitting agriculture and processed meals objects. India is hoping that the settlement will open the doorways for its professionals, akin to these within the IT sector, to get higher entry in Australia.

Both sides are, nevertheless, assured of narrowing the variations. The December goal was agreed upon throughout a gathering between commerce and business minister Piyush Goyal and his Australian counterpart Dan Tehan.

During the assembly, sources stated, Goyal set a mid-September deadline for finalising the general scope of the early harvest scheme. “The ministers appreciated the progress made in three rounds of talks between the chief trade negotiators of both sides and discussed the way forward for an early conclusion of a bilateral CECA… the ministers directed officials to speed up the negotiations and to meet as often as required to achieve an early harvest announcement by December 2021 on an interim agreement to liberalise and deepen bilateral trade in goods and services, and pave the way for a comprehensive agreement,” a joint assertion issued on Friday stated.

Since the Covid-19 outbreak, India together with Japan has additionally been working carefully with Australia on a resilient provide chain initiative, which seeks to scale back dependence on China. In latest months, Australia, which had signed a trade settlement with China just a few years in the past, has seen huge trade stress with Beijing.


 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top