India and the UNSC

sorcerer

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India More Deserving For UNSC Membership Than Any Other Country: Ex-Australian PM Tony Abbott | LatestLY
New Delhi, November 18: Former Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott has endorsed India's candidacy to the United Nations Security Council (UNSC). New Delhi has long been striving for a place in the top UN body. The attempts gained pace after China - a permanent member of the Council - repeatedly blocked India's bid to blacklist Pakistan-based terrorist Masood Azhar. https://www.latestly.com/world/india-more-deserving-for-unsc-membership-than-any-other-country-ex-australian-pm-tony-abbott-1345127.html
 
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ezsasa

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India More Deserving For UNSC Membership Than Any Other Country: Ex-Australian PM Tony Abbott | LatestLY
New Delhi, November 18: Former Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott has endorsed India's candidacy to the United Nations Security Council (UNSC). New Delhi has long been striving for a place in the top UN body. The attempts gained pace after China - a permanent member of the Council - repeatedly blocked India's bid to blacklist Pakistan-based terrorist Masood Azhar. https://www.latestly.com/world/india-more-deserving-for-unsc-membership-than-any-other-country-ex-australian-pm-tony-abbott-1345127.html
Don’t give too much credence to Ex-Australian PM statements in general, especially on topics not related to Australia.

These chaps lick Chinese bum during their PMship, abuse US after.
 

sorcerer

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Don’t give too much credence to Ex-Australian PM statements in general, especially on topics not related to Australia.

These chaps lick Chinese bum during their PMship, abuse US after.
The statement is good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Any pro statement on Indias candidacy is always good :)
 
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India set to be UNSC non-permanent member, says will bring ‘Five S’ approach to world
India is the single endorsed candidate for the Asia-Pacific seat in the non-permanent member category. The elections for five non-permanent members will be held by the UN General Assembly on 17 June, in which India is likely to be elected for the eighth time.
India had last assumed the role of a non-permanent member at the UNSC in 2011-12. Prior to that, it was a non-permanent member for 1950-51, 1967-68, 1972-73, 1977-78, 1984-85 and 1991-92.
Once elected, India will be on the seat at the UNSC as a non-permanent member starting from January 2021 for a period of two years
 

ezsasa

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Once done.. India should really push for reform get the permanent seat.. This is a very good chance for India to work from inside to get things done.. Right now or Never...
non-permanent member is a rotation seat, we had it in 2014-15 as well. At that time Afghanistan gave their place to us.

chalta rahta hai...
 
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Trinetra

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non-permanent member is a rotation seat, we had it in 2014-15 as well. At that time Afghanistan gave their place to us.

chalta rahta hai...
But Right now India's influence not like ever before.. So India should really leverage this situation.. And Modi Govt.. Can do this.. Not sure what will happen after 2024..
 

no smoking

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But Right now India's influence not like ever before.. So India should really leverage this situation.. And Modi Govt.. Can do this.. Not sure what will happen after 2024..
If you believe that, then you should dismantle Big 4 first and start a new campaign for India only.
 

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If you believe that, then you should dismantle Big 4 first and start a new campaign for India only.
Whatever India has to do India must do the same... All stars are allgned for India.. India need to twist arm some adamant nation and get friendly nation onboard.. get 130 votes from UN (2/3rd votes ) to start reform UNSC.. now India can influensce the council from inside to get the draft resolution passed..
 

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Whatever India has to do India must do the same...
Which is getting India nowhere but some nice words.

All stars are allgned for India..
Stars don't have the right to vote in the UN.

India need to twist arm some adamant nation and get friendly nation onboard..
How? So far India did lots of lip work but very few payment for others' support. The BIG 4 idea is using one ticket money to buy 4 tickets. Unfortunately, other people are not fool.

get 130 votes from UN (2/3rd votes ) to start reform
Last time, the bill of reform was rejected by P5 before it was entering the vote.

UNSC.. now India can influensce the council from inside to get the draft resolution passed..
You don't need to sit in UNSEC to influence P5.
 

Compersion

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Did Maha Deva have a UNSC seat? but did someone pretend to be Maha Deva custodian have a UNSC seat? Did someone pretend to be his son custodian on UNSC seat? All determined by whom?

Audience with Maha Deva is not about access but transformation it is the breaking of what it is really true - acceptance takes times but that also gets broken. Maha Deva prefers righteousness but allows all and everyone. But most importantly Maha Deva makes sure he is always together and seen by the side of Parvati. And if someone - anyone disrespects her for even 0.0000000000000000000...........1% get ready for the tandav.

Always remember it can be dark elsewhere but there shall always be a light with Parvati and along with wisdom and prosperity. She is not sleeping but watching and everyone knows you never see her alone - she comes with her sons always together. Where are they - see for yourself and see!! Maha Deva is here. And he is ready to awaken. Be it - nothingness - non-permanent and permanent its label only right? Jai Hind
 

garg_bharat

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Compersion, what the hell are you writing?

It does not matter if India gets UN seat or not. UN is now useless as so many conflicts happening outside UN.
 
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For how long will India be kept out of decision-making structures of UN: PM Modi at UNGA session
UNITED NATIONS: Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Saturday questioned for how long will India, the world's largest democracy and home to 1.3 billion people, be kept out of the decision-making structures of the United Nations, asserting that reform in the responses, processes and in the very character of the global body is the "need of the hour."
In his pre-recorded video statement to the landmark General Debate of the 75th session of the UN General Assembly, Modi said the stability in the United Nations and empowerment of the world body are essential for the welfare of the world.
The prime minister's strong push for UN reforms and the much-delayed expansion of the powerful Security Council came as India will begin its two-year term as an elected non-permanent member of the 15-member Council from January 1 next year.
"For how long will India be kept out of the decision-making structures of the United Nations? How long would a country have to wait particularly when the transformational changes happening in that country affect a large part of the world?" Modi asked.
He said that while it is a fact that the faith and respect that the United Nations enjoys among the 1.3 billion people in India is "unparalleled", it is also true that the people of India have been waiting for a long time for the process for the reforms of the United Nations to get completed.
"Today, people of India are concerned whether this reform-process will ever reach its logical conclusion," he said, adding that every Indian today, while seeing the contribution of India in the world organisation, aspires for India's expanded role in the United Nations.
"Reform in the responses, in the processes, and in the very character of the United Nations is the need of the hour," he emphasised.
India has been spearheading decades-long efforts to reform the Security Council, saying a structure set up in 1945 does not reflect contemporary realities of the 21st Century and is ill-equipped to handle current challenges.
There is widespread support, including by four out of the five permanent members of the Security Council - US, UK, France and Russia - for a permanent seat for India at the Council.
Modi said India is a country which is the largest democracy of the world, with more than 18 per cent of the world population, has hundreds of languages, dialects, many sects and ideologies, which was a leading global economy for centuries and also endured hundreds of years of foreign rule.
"When we were strong, we were never a threat to the world, when we were weak, we never became a burden on the world,” he said.
Modi emphasised that the world of today is a completely different era from the world of 1945 when the global situation, sources-resources, problems-solutions were all quite different.
"With the changing times, if we don't change, then the drive needed to bring change will also get weakened,” he said.
An objective assessment of the performance of the United Nations over the last 75 years would yield several stellar achievements but at the same time, there are also several instances that point to the need for a "serious introspection of the work of the United Nations,” he said.
"Several terrorist attacks shook the world and rivers of blood have continued to flow by,” he said.
"During those times and even today, can we suggest that efforts of the United Nations to tackle these issues were sufficient,” he said.
Modi said India will not hesitate to raise its voice against the enemies of humanity, including terrorism, smuggling of illegal weapons, drugs and money-laundering, and will always speak in support of peace, security and prosperity.
"Starting from January next year, India will also fulfill its responsibility as a non-permanent member of the Security Council. I express my gratitude to all fellow member states who have bestowed this trust upon India,” he said, referring to the overwhelming support the country received during the election in June.
"As the world's largest democracy, we will bring our years of rich experience for the benefit of the whole world," he added.
Modi underscored that the ideals on which the UN was founded and India's own fundamental philosophy has a lot of commonality and are not different from each other.
"Within the halls of the United Nations, one has often heard the words ‘the world is one family',” he said, adding that it is part of India's culture, character and thinking to treat the whole world as one family.
"In the United Nations too, India has always given priority to the welfare of the whole world,” he said, outlining that India has sent its brave soldiers to about 50 peacekeeping missions the world over to keep peace and in the course of maintaining peace, has lost the maximum number of its brave soldiers.
"India's experiences, and India's developmental journey marked with its ups and downs will only add to strengthening the path to global welfare,” he said.
"In the changed circumstances of the post-pandemic era, we are moving forward with the vision of a ‘Self-reliant India',” which will also be a force multiplier for the global economy, he said.
"In its journey towards progress, India wants to learn from the world as well as share its own experiences with the world," Modi added.
This year's high-level UN General Assembly is being held in a largely virtual format due to the coronavirus pandemic.
Earlier, India's Permanent Representative to the UN, T S Tirumurti, introduced Modi's pre-recorded statement from the General Assembly Hall.
 

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No change is gonna happen the way we are going at the moment. Voting is always gonna fail until we give them something back or stand up stronger. Still we should try. How is the question.

There are 4 systems seeking to get the permanent seat. Besides India, there is Germany, Brazil and Japan. I think Germans would most likely the seat if they were to be given seat with no application and objection by the other 3 because none in the P5 would object, German will act in alliance with the US/UK/Russia/France and China has enough clout and leverage on them to use them to their own advantage.

What should India do?
The German case for seat in UNSC and the difference between Germany and Franc.

France a permanent and key stakeholder and vocal supporter of UN reform to better reflect the new world order that has changed significantly since WW2. One of those suggested reform is 'expansion of permanent seats on the UNSC to include the G4 countries (Germany, Brazil, India and Japan)' .

EU vs France for UNSC seat
However, Germany has been proposing for France to give up its permanent seat in the UN in favor of a single vote for EU. German's view is that it will allow the EU block to represent all of Europe as a united voice at international platform. They are trying to unite Europe as one large great power. Germany argues that if France truly was committed to the EU, this spot and the associated veto power should be Europeanised. However, France argues this unified EU seat would be counterproductive, instead they suggest and support an additional seat for Germany.

If France agrees to Germany's recommendation, Germany would automatically have a seat in the UN possibly without objection from P5 or the remaining of G4, their status and clout on globe greatly enhanced, this would leave India in the limbo making appeals for reforms with no results.

I think that both options proposed by German and French are great, the first one slightly better if French and German can work as single entity, they are really gonna be great force of Europe but right now, as the situation is that while France is the diplomatic power of the EU, Germany is the economic capital of the EU. They are counterbalancing forces. This Europeanisation would reduce France diplomatic power offsetting this balance of power German hands. French wouldn't want that (past experiences). Germans still secretly dreaming of fulfilling Nazi Dreams of unified Europe that seems to have become more difficult after Brexit, thus losing one added vote for Europe. I would prefer this disunity remains between them, atleast for now.
________________________
Case for India in Germany's idea.

Whether French and German's can align their interest to work together is another matter but the German point of view has much more merit for us if applied in Indian subcontinent. If we make a similar case for Indian subcontinent giving one strong and permanent seat/vote as SAARC (like EU) union, this would greatly enhance our bid for that spot.

And I think this union would also be able to help address the obstacle that we face from Pakistan's anti-India generals. With us getting a seat in the UN as union, Pakistan's interest would be protected in the union and this would also give us leverage to stop their state and non-state actors from infiltrating India launching terror attacks. They should drop their support to jihadism in light of all the economic advantages they would have as a permanent members. It's a chance to solve some our issues and stupid conflicts without any casualities. And with all the SAARC members combined, India's position too will be enhanced on world stage. Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Bhutan, Maldives, Nepal, and Sri Lanka would most likely support our proposal and I think Pakistan, hopefully, (both the generals, politicians and civillians alike) would be able too see merit in this. It's time to support each other for collective progress and move from being regional power towards Global leadership.

More benefits to us. Subcontinent will have more authority if we make a case for our people as Union rather than just for India alone. We will have some veto power (when alone) but we will still have conflicts and losses with unnecessary challenges to our economy and security. The vote of union would build trust among all in the region and could prevent conflicts indefinitely while reaping great economic rewards and upliftment in ordinary civilians lives. We must consider this option, the soonest the best. Let's make a seat for Union of SAARC rather than Indias. China too wouldn't be able to oppose this union with ease.
 
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DerBronzeLord

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No change is gonna happen the way we are going at the moment. Voting is always gonna fail until we give them something back or stand up stronger. Still we should try. How is the question.

There are 4 systems seeking to get the permanent seat. Besides India, there is Germany, Brazil and Japan. I think Germans would most likely the seat if they were to be given seat with no application and objection by the other 3 because none in the P5 would object, German will act in alliance with the US/UK/Russia/France and China has enough clout and leverage on them to use them to their own advantage.

What should India do?
The German case for seat in UNSC and the difference between Germany and Franc.

France a permanent and key stakeholder and vocal supporter of UN reform to better reflect the new world order that has changed significantly since WW2. One of those suggested reform is 'expansion of permanent seats on the UNSC to include the G4 countries (Germany, Brazil, India and Japan)' .

EU vs France for UNSC seat
However, Germany has been proposing for France to give up its permanent seat in the UN in favor of a single vote for EU. German's view is that it will allow the EU block to represent all of Europe as a united voice at international platform. They are trying to unite Europe as one large great power. Germany argues that if France truly was committed to the EU, this spot and the associated veto power should be Europeanised. However, France argues this unified EU seat would be counterproductive, instead they suggest and support an additional seat for Germany.

If France agrees to Germany's recommendation, Germany would automatically have a seat in the UN possibly without objection from P5 or the remaining of G4, their status and clout on globe greatly enhanced, this would leave India in the limbo making appeals for reforms with no results.

I think that both options proposed by German and French are great, the first one slightly better if French and German can work as single entity, they are really gonna be great force of Europe but right now, as the situation is that while France is the diplomatic power of the EU, Germany is the economic capital of the EU. They are counterbalancing forces. This Europeanisation would reduce France diplomatic power offsetting this balance of power German hands. French wouldn't want that (past experiences). Germans still secretly dreaming of fulfilling Nazi Dreams of unified Europe that seems to have become more difficult after Brexit, thus losing one added vote for Europe. I would prefer this disunity remains between them, atleast for now.
________________________
Case for India in Germany's idea.

Whether French and German's can align their interest to work together is another matter but the German point of view has much more merit for us if applied in Indian subcontinent. If we make a similar case for Indian subcontinent giving one strong and permanent seat/vote as SAARC (like EU) union, this would greatly enhance our bid for that spot.

And I think this union would also be able to help address the obstacle that we face from Pakistan's anti-India generals. With us getting a seat in the UN as union, Pakistan's interest would be protected in the union and this would also give us leverage to stop their state and non-state actors from infiltrating India launching terror attacks. They should drop their support to jihadism in light of all the economic advantages they would have as a permanent members. It's a chance to solve some our issues and stupid conflicts without any casualities. And with all the SAARC members combined, India's position too will be enhanced on world stage. Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Bhutan, Maldives, Nepal, and Sri Lanka would most likely support our proposal and I think Pakistan, hopefully, (both the generals, politicians and civillians alike) would be able too see merit in this. It's time to support each other for collective progress and move from being regional power towards Global leadership.

More benefits to us. Subcontinent will have more authority if we make a case for our people as Union rather than just for India alone. We will have some veto power (when alone) but we will still have conflicts and losses with unnecessary challenges to our economy and security. The vote of union would build trust among all in the region and could prevent conflicts indefinitely while reaping great economic rewards and upliftment in ordinary civilians lives. We must consider this option, the soonest the best. Let's make a seat for Union of SAARC rather than Indias. China too wouldn't be able to oppose this union with ease.
Remember, Pakistan is a part of SAARC. And even if we do get a veto for that, how do you implement that? Majority voting among SAARC members? If so, are the votes of, say, India and Nepal equal? A vote for SAARC is just as stupid as a vote for the EU. France is doing the right thing by attempting to expand solely on the basis of countries and not orgs. Only the AU might be able to have such a vote considering that Africa is seriously disunited. G4 as an idea is good, but we need to take concrete action rather than just get lip service from other countries.

I have also seen several articles, both on Twitter and other sm, stating that Nehru handed over India's UNSC seat to China. While Nehru was a big mofo, the process where the PRC got their Permanent Seat also holds the clue to how India can become a permanent UNSC member.

When Nehru supposedly handed over India's permanent seat, it was NOT to the PRC, but rather to the ROC, or what we call Taiwan today. Until around 1971, the PRC was not represented at the UN. However, after Kissinger's visit, the Americans colluded with their allies to remove Taiwan as the representative of China, and hand that duty over to the PRC. As the representation of countries in the UN is dependent on Article 18, a supermajority vote was called for in the UNGA, recognising the PRC as the sole claimant of China's seat, and thus, China became a permanent UNSC member. You could check Chapter V, Article 24, Clause 1 of the UN charter to confirm this.

India can also amend the UN Charter, which was the process through which the PRC got its permanent seat. Under Article 108, the UN Charter can be amended by a supermajority in the UNGA, and ratified by a supermajority of the UNSC, including all the PERMANENT members of the UNSC.

India can easily obtain a supermajority in both the UNGA and the UNSC, as was seen during the elections for the Asia-Pacific seat of the UNSC, where India won 184/191 seats, which also included 2/3rds of the UNSC. Therefore, it is obvious here that the impediment is the PRC. France, the US, the UK and Russia have guarenteed support for us in our endeavour for a permanent seat, but unless the PRC ratifies it, India can't get a permanent seat. If India manages to convince the PRC to support India's permanent seat, India will easily become a UNSC Veto member, but of course, it is a long shot to hope for support from the PRC. In my opinion, India is very unlikely to get an UNSC permanent seat, unless it armtwists the PRC, or the US does so, which is highly unlikely.
 

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Therefore, it is obvious here that the impediment is the PRC.
Apparently you didn't read the post or maybe I didn't word it better. The China impediment is really the issue that I am addressing by way SAARC union applying for permanent seat in UNSC.

Remember, Pakistan is a part of SAARC. And even if we do get a veto for that, how do you implement that? Majority voting among SAARC members?
Simple. We shall make a council or a body to represent SAARC union which will for the purpose of the regions stand on any matter in UN will act as one unit. We can do it on majority basis or unanimously. There are tons of solutions for that. The first thing we need is a seat. SAARC can be slowly turned into a single fully integrated union with a single currency for our union as is the case with Euro. The problems that arise later would be sorted later. You are thinking too much and too far over minor issues which will be dealt with deftness of diplomats. One step at a time. And Pakistan which is a sidekick in international matters would most likely join hands with other SAARC nations given the newfound influence it is gonna have on international arena.

France is doing the right thing by attempting to expand solely on the basis of countries and not orgs.
French are simply scared of Germans. This won't be much of an issue in our case. We need to unite if we want to get out of regional power politics. There is no other way for us to rise and face our bigger adversaries.
 
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There are 4 systems seeking to get the permanent seat. Besides India, there is Germany, Brazil and Japan. I think Germans would most likely the seat if they were to be given seat with no application and objection by the other 3 because none in the P5 would object, German will act in alliance with the US/UK/Russia/France and China has enough clout and leverage on them to use them to their own advantage.
French are simply scared of Germans. This won't be much of an issue in our case. We need to unite if we want to get out of regional power politics. There is no other way for us to rise and face our bigger adversaries.
Germany is a second tier economic power which has enough issues and will face objections from UK, France, China and Russia.
Not only already UK and France are sufficient to represent that region, Germany isn't either strong enough or a rising power to make its chances of getting seat better.
"Grouping or peaceful contributions" function as written criteria only so far. P5 was the formation most powerful countries of new world order after WW2. US & Soviets weren't so much of enemies then, French and UK hold significant naval military power and China was an indispensable partner of winning side because of sacrifices made against Japan.

Besides India and Japan, no other candidate in or out of G4 qualifies or have enough strangic capabilities and international influence to think of getting a seat. Even someone getting seat besides India & Japan will be seen as a puppet or showman.
Whether French and German's can align their interest to work together is another matter but the German point of view has much more merit for us if applied in Indian subcontinent. If we make a similar case for Indian subcontinent giving one strong and permanent seat/vote as SAARC (like EU) union, this would greatly enhance our bid for that spot.
SAARC isn't a functional, influential or even a real supranational body unlike EU or ASEAN which has any importance in international affairs.

It is just seen as an extended reflection of India itself in breakaway countries like Russia with other former Soviet republics. They are just obligated to pass on diplomatic statements as per norms. But it won't change the fact that India accounts for 65% of area, 75% of population, 80% of economy, 90% of total wealth and nearly entire scientific output and innovation of South Asia.

Among the G4,
India has support of highest number of countries.

Countries that explicitly and openly support India for UNSC permanent seat.
India

Support by UN Members (includes support by African Union members)

Conditional support (China)

Support by UN Observers (African Union)


Besides India, no other SAARC member has even any significance in world and so would be a SAARC without India. SAARC doesn't affect India's chances for seat in any positive or negative way.
More benefits to us. Subcontinent will have more authority if we make a case for our people as Union rather than just for India alone.
Simple. We shall make a council or a body to represent SAARC union which will for the purpose of the regions stand on any matter in UN will act as one unit. We can do it on majority basis or unanimously. There are tons of solutions for that. The first thing we need is a seat. SAARC can be slowly turned into a single fully integrated union with a single currency for our union as is the case with Euro. The problems that arise later would be sorted later. You are thinking too much and too far over minor issues which will be dealt with deftness of diplomats. One step at a time. And Pakistan which is a sidekick in international matters would most likely join hands with other SAARC nations given the newfound influence it is gonna have on international arena.
As told before, India representing SAARC or itself alone doesn't make much difference. First because India is 3/4 of region itself and second because any other SAARC countries simply don't matter anywhere in world nor they are much interested in international politics. Reactions to SAARC Sat etc. shows you how functional it is.

Pakistan and Sri Lanka wish to garner international support for surviving against Indian clout by international support and rest are happy with their bread butter being booked in India.

The things in SAARC moving to EU like extent you are talking about defeats the very purpose of existence of borders. India is seen as a hegemon and progenitor or this country grouping. Those who don't like us, have been working for support from third party countries, SAARC members which probably don't even have being part of India in future don't even make move against Indian interests.
It's an instance of similarity with Russia and successor states of Soviet where only Russia has inherited power. Not EU where countries have fair share of shared historical significance and power.
 

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