IN Scorpene Submarines - News & Discussions

JHA

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Messages
115
Likes
11
So, the delivery date is pushed back to 2015 now..I guess next gen Sub will start coming in 2025 onwards ( going by the pace )..
 

Patriot

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
1,761
Likes
543
Country flag
DCNS chief blames Indian shipyard for submarine project delay

Patrick Boissier, Chairman and CEO of DCNS has blamed India's state owned shipyard MDL for delays in launching the first submarine under the P75 project which is to build six submarines in India with technology from DCNS.


In opening remarks during a press conference in Delhi, Boissier said, "MDL is the only Indian naval shipyard to have produced submarines in the past. However, the competencies developed have seen a 'breach' for the last 15 years. Considering submarines technologies, this is a huge gap to fill".

He said, "human competences, when not maintained, disappear slowly but surely and industrial means become not adapted to the needs or (become) obsolete. You therefore have to consider new investments and learning stages that cost both time and money. It is crucial to keep competences and industrial means up to date to perpetuate the investments made".

He said following the delay in the launch of the first submarine, DCNS is working with MDL and authorities in Delhi to achieve the earliest possible date of launch. For the upcoming stages of the project such as outfittings together with systems integration and running of trials, an adapted organisation from the shipyard is needed. Together with MDL, we created a common 'task force' aiming at quality and at the greatest efficiency.

On a positive note, Boissier said that MDL has today absorbed the demanding technologies associated to hull fabrication. The Indian shipyard is done with the hulls of the first and second submarines. Third and fourth hulls are in progress while the frame to receive the hull of the fifth submarine is under manufacture.



http://www.defenseworld.net/go/defensenews.jsp?id=5304&h=DCNS%20chief%20blames%20Indian%20shipyard%20for%20submarine%20project%20delay
 

Patriot

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
1,761
Likes
543
Country flag
Indian Navy plans to upgrade Scorpene sub with AIP technology



NEW DELHI (PTI): The Indian Navy's Scorpene submarines are likely to have increased operational range and also do away with surfacing to access atmospheric oxygen, thanks to the new Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) technology.

The submarines, under construction at the Mumbai-based Mazagon Docks Limited, are likely to get the AIP technology that will increase their operational range without having to surface to access atmospheric oxygen.

The navy is considering various options available with it to fit the last two of the six submarines under the project, codenamed P75, with the AIP including the proposal made by French defence company DCNS.

DCNS Chairman and CEO Patrick Boissier, who is part of French President Nicolas Sarkozy's delegation to India, told reporters here that his firm has made an informal proposal to the navy in this regard.

"We have made an informal proposal to the navy for AIP technology in the last two of the Scorpenes that will be built at MDL. Now it is up to the navy to take a call on this proposal. We have held informal discussions in this regard," Boissier said.

"The navy is considering the proposal and will take a call on it. We have some options, apart from the DCNS one, including an indigenous AIP system that is under development," a navy officer, unwilling to be named, said here.

AIP encompasses technologies that allow a submarine to operate without the need to surface or use a snorkel to access atmospheric oxygen and it usually excludes the use of nuclear power, but is about augmenting or replacing diesel-electric propulsion system of non-nuclear vessels.

Several countries in the world currently adopt the AIP technology in the submarines that they build and these include the US, Russia, France, Germany, Spain and Sweden.

Though the Scorpenes, being built with DCNS and Thales help at MDL, did not envisage AIP for the six submarines under the P75 project, the navy's second line of six conventional submarines, called P75I, which were recently approved by the government, will incorporate the technology.

Talking about P75, Bossier said DCNS was in charge of major transfer of technology (ToT) to MDL for the building of 6 Scorpene submarines.

"We are carrying out genuine transfers of technologies and know-how at an unprecedented level under the Scorpene project right from the first submarine, which is under construction at present," he said.

DCNS is providing Indian partners with technical assistance to manufacture equipment through indigenisation programmes.

"MDL has today absorbed the demanding technologies associated to hull fabrication. The shipyard modernisation programme launched by MDL will allow it to deliver more than one submarine per year," he added.

The Scorpene project is currently delayed by over two years now and the first submarine is expected to be delivered by MDL only in 2012, after which the rest five is expected at the rate of one submarine every year.

Boissier said MDL had already done the work on the hulls for the first two of the six Scorpenes and the work on the third and fourth vessels' hulls were in progress.

"The frame to receive the hull of the fifth submarine is in progress. As you know, the launch of the first submarine has been delayed. We are constantly working with MDL and Delhi authorities to achieve the earliest possible date of launch," Boissier noted.

At present, the outfitting works on the first Scorpene are in progress and the delivery of combat system equipment for it would happen soon. The other five submarines would get the equipment at the rate of one per year.

For the upcoming stages of the building (outfittings, systems integration and trials), Boissier said an new approach was needed at the MDL and together with DCNS, the shipyard had set up a 'task force' to monitor quality and improve efficiency.

"MDL is the only Indian naval shipyard to have produced submarines in the past. However, the competencies developed have seen a dip in the last 15 years.

"Considering submarines technologies, this is a huge gap to fill. Human competences, when not maintained, disappear slowly but surely. Industrial capacities too become weak or obsolete. You, therefore, have to consider new investments and learning stages that cost both time and money. It is crucial to keep competencies and industrial capacities up to date to perpetuate the investments made," he said.







http://www.brahmand.com/news/Indian-Navy-plans-to-upgrade-Scorpene-sub-with-AIP-technology/5719/1/10.html
 

Patriot

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
1,761
Likes
543
Country flag
Tech Transfer Issues Cleared For Scorpene Buy

French shipbuilder DCNS says the first of six diesel-electric Scorpene submarines will be delivered to India's Magazon Dock Ltd. (MDL) in Mumbai in 2013, now that initial roadblocks concerning technology transfer have been overcome.

Scorpene "is one of the biggest transfer of technology [TOT] programs because it is the first time that the TOT starts from the first ship, which is generally built at the OEM premises," says Patrick Boissier, Chairman and CEO of DCNS. "MDL now has the necessary technology for submarine production."



The project has been delayed and costs have escalated as a result of MDL's learning process. The combat systems have been delivered for the first sub, while the frame of the third, fourth and fifth submarines are in progress.

"We are motivated to meet the delivery date," Boissier says. He was a member of the business delegation accompanying French President Nicolas Sarkozy to India.

"DCNS will be involved with strategic cooperation between the two governments," Boissier adds. "It's a win-win strategy for us."

The company says it could offer a larger version for India's upcoming six-submarine Project 75I class. It has held discussions with the Indian navy on the addition of Air Independent Propulsion, for which the request for proposals is expected in 2011.

DCNS has not discussed its new Gowind family of offshore vessels with India, but such discussions are likely, an official says. With a 360-deg. panoramic surveillance bridge, single central mast, tailored communication system, ample payload capacity (in containers or under fixed covers) and onboard recovery and handling systems, the 1,000-2,500-ton-class Gowind vessels are well-suited for UAV operations, according to the company.

Scorpene submarine photo: DCNS






http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_generic.jsp?topicName=india&id=news/awx/2010/12/06/awx_12_06_2010_p0-274421.xml&headline=Tech%20Transfer%20Issues%20Cleared%20For%20Scorpene%20Buy
 
Last edited:

neo29

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2009
Messages
1,284
Likes
30
France to offer bigger Scorpenes for $ 5 Billion Indian Submarine Order

France will offer India a bigger version of its Scorpene conventional diesel-electric (SSK) submarine for a $5 billion (Rs 30,000 crore) contract for six submarines. This is the world's largest order for conventional submarines.

Stating this, Patrick Boissier, Chairman and CEO of French shipbuilder DCNS, confirmed that the design of the existing Scorpene submarine could be lengthened with the addition of more sections including Air Independent Propulsion (AIP).

Boissier was part of the trade delegation visiting New Delhi with French President Nicolas Sarkozy. India is already building six Scorpene submarines at the state-owned Mazagon Docks Ltd under a Rs 18,000-crore contract signed with France in 2005.

Last year, the Indian Navy sought global Requests for Information (RFIs) from global vendors for six Project 75I class submarines independent of the 2005 contract.

DCNS responded to the Navy RFI last September. Next year, the Navy is to issue its Request for Proposals (RFPs), which will define the size of the submarine and other critical parameters. Naval officials say a contract for the first P75I could be signed around 2012-13.
The Project 75I submarines are expected to be bigger than the 1800-ton Scorpene class and call for the fitment of AIP systems allowing greater underwater endurance and land-attack missiles.

Indian Navy officials say a commonality of components will mean the second line of six Scorpenes will be cheaper than any competitor, though it is unclear what the quantum of these savings will be. The first two submarines are to be built in the foreign shipyard that wins the contract, the next three at MDL and the last one at the Hindustan Shipyard Limited, recently acquired by the defence ministry.

The submarines are to be built simultaneously in India and abroad to ensure speedy induction into the fleet. This is because the Navy is faced with a fast shrinking submarine arm. It has not added a new submarine in a decade. From 18 submarines in 2000, the Navy is down to 14 and will start retiring the first of its 10 Russian-built Kilo class vessels from 2015 onwards. The Scorpene submarine programme has been delayed by four years. The first submarine is now expected to join the Navy only by 2015.

India's long-term submarine building programme, conceived in the mid-1990s, envisaged the building of 24 submarines over the next two decades.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/Story/122310/World/france-to-offer-bigger-scorpenes-for-$5-billion-indian-submarine-order.html
 

rakesh

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2009
Messages
115
Likes
1
France to offer bigger Scorpenes for $ 5 Billion Indian Submarine Order

France will offer India a bigger version of its Scorpene conventional diesel-electric (SSK) submarine for a $5 billion (Rs 30,000 crore) contract for six submarines. This is the world's largest order for conventional submarines.

Stating this, Patrick Boissier, Chairman and CEO of French shipbuilder DCNS, confirmed that the design of the existing Scorpene submarine could be lengthened with the addition of more sections including Air Independent Propulsion (AIP).

Boissier was part of the trade delegation visiting New Delhi with French President Nicolas Sarkozy. India is already building six Scorpene submarines at the state-owned Mazagon Docks Ltd under a Rs 18,000-crore contract signed with France in 2005.

Last year, the Indian Navy sought global Requests for Information (RFIs) from global vendors for six Project 75I class submarines independent of the 2005 contract.

DCNS responded to the Navy RFI last September. Next year, the Navy is to issue its Request for Proposals (RFPs), which will define the size of the submarine and other critical parameters. Naval officials say a contract for the first P75I could be signed around 2012-13.
The Project 75I submarines are expected to be bigger than the 1800-ton Scorpene class and call for the fitment of AIP systems allowing greater underwater endurance and land-attack missiles.

Indian Navy officials say a commonality of components will mean the second line of six Scorpenes will be cheaper than any competitor, though it is unclear what the quantum of these savings will be. The first two submarines are to be built in the foreign shipyard that wins the contract, the next three at MDL and the last one at the Hindustan Shipyard Limited, recently acquired by the defence ministry.

The submarines are to be built simultaneously in India and abroad to ensure speedy induction into the fleet. This is because the Navy is faced with a fast shrinking submarine arm. It has not added a new submarine in a decade. From 18 submarines in 2000, the Navy is down to 14 and will start retiring the first of its 10 Russian-built Kilo class vessels from 2015 onwards. The Scorpene submarine programme has been delayed by four years. The first submarine is now expected to join the Navy only by 2015.

India's long-term submarine building programme, conceived in the mid-1990s, envisaged the building of 24 submarines over the next two decades.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/Story/122310/World/france-to-offer-bigger-scorpenes-for-$5-billion-indian-submarine-order.html
Is this which in under construction ?
 

neo29

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2009
Messages
1,284
Likes
30
Scorpenes to get AIP technology : Indian Navy

The navy's Scorpene submarines are likely to have increased operational range and also do away with surfacing to access atmospheric oxygen, thanks to the new Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) technology.

The submarines, under construction at the Mumbai-based Mazagon Docks Limited, are likely to get the AIP technology that will increase their operational range without having to surface to access atmospheric oxygen.

The navy is considering various options available with it to fit the last two of the six submarines under the project, codenamed P75, with the AIP including the proposal made by French defence company DCNS.

DCNS Chairman and CEO Patrick Boissier, who is part of French President Nicolas Sarkozy's delegation to India, told reporters here that his firm has made an informal proposal to the navy in this regard.

"We have made an informal proposal to the navy for AIP technology in the last two of the Scorpenes that will be built at MDL. Now it is up to the navy to take a call on this proposal. We have held informal discussions in this regard," Boissier said.

"The navy is considering the proposal and will take a call on it. We have some options, apart from the DCNS one, including an indigenous AIP system that is under development," a navy officer, unwilling to be named, said here.

AIP encompasses technologies that allow a submarine to operate without the need to surface or use a snorkel to access atmospheric oxygen and it usually excludes the use of nuclear power, but is about augmenting or replacing diesel-electric propulsion system of non-nuclear vessels.

Several countries in the world currently adopt the AIP technology in the submarines that they build and these include the US, Russia, France, Germany, Spain and Sweden.

Though the Scorpenes, being built with DCNS and Tales help at MDL, did not envisage AIP for the six submarines under the P75 project, the navy's second line of six conventional submarines, called P75I, which were recently approved by the government, will incorporate the technology.

Talking about P75, Bossier said DCNS was in charge of major transfer of technology (ToT) to MDL for the building of 6 Scorpene submarines.

"We are carrying out genuine transfers of technologies and know-how at an unprecedented level under the Scorpene project right from the first submarine, which is under construction at present," he said.

DCNS is providing Indian partners with technical assistance to manufacture equipment through indigenisation programmes.

"MDL has today absorbed the demanding technologies associated to hull fabrication. The shipyard modernisation programme launched by MDL will allow it to deliver more than one submarine per year," he added.

The Scorpene project is currently delayed by over two years now and the first submarine is expected to be delivered by MDL only in 2012, after which the remaining five are expected at the rate of one submarine every year.

Boissier said MDL had already done the work on the hulls for the first two of the six Scorpenes and the work on the third and fourth vessels' hulls were in progress.

"The frame to receive the hull of the fifth submarine is in progress. As you know, the launch of the first submarine has been delayed. We are constantly working with MDL and Delhi authorities to achieve the earliest possible date of launch," Boissier noted.

At present, the outfitting works on the first Scorpene are in progress and the delivery of combat system equipment for it would happen soon. The other five submarines would get the equipment at the rate of one per year.

For the upcoming stages of the building (outfittings, systems integration and trials), Boissier said an new approach was needed at the MDL and together with DCNS, the shipyard had set up a 'task force' to monitor quality and improve efficiency.

"MDL is the only Indian naval shipyard to have produced submarines in the past. However, the competencies developed have seen a dip in the last 15 years.

"Considering submarines technologies, this is a huge gap to fill. Human competences, when not maintained, disappear slowly but surely. Industrial capacities too become weak or obsolete. You, therefore, have to consider new investments and learning stages that cost both time and money. It is crucial to keep competencies and industrial capacities up to date to perpetuate the investments made," he said.

idrw.org
 

Anshu Attri

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2009
Messages
1,218
Likes
658
Country flag
India to buy 3 French Scorpene submarines


 
Last edited by a moderator:

Armand2REP

CHINI EXPERT
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
13,813
Likes
6,559
Country flag
India to buy 3 French Scorpene submarines
I get the feeling this will not be the last order for Scorpene. As MKI is to IAF, Scorpene will be in continuous order for IN. Forget the next submarine tender, Scorpene has enough expandability to replace it. AIP to nuclear... she can do it all. Production line is already set up so it makes no sense to start another. Anyway, this is great news for DCN and Thales.
 

black eagle

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
Messages
1,237
Likes
120
Country flag
VDO of Subtics. Scorpene's sub sensory and attack management system.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

mayfair

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Messages
6,033
Likes
13,040
I get the feeling this will not be the last order for Scorpene. As MKI is to IAF, Scorpene will be in continuous order for IN. Forget the next submarine tender, Scorpene has enough expandability to replace it. AIP to nuclear... she can do it all. Production line is already set up so it makes no sense to start another. Anyway, this is great news for DCN and Thales.
You mentioned that Mazgaon docks had trouble absorbing the technology for manufacturing the subs. So can it be assumed that all those issues have been ironed out? What sort of technology are the French willing to transfer to us?
 

Armand2REP

CHINI EXPERT
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
13,813
Likes
6,559
Country flag
You mentioned that Mazgaon docks had trouble absorbing the technology for manufacturing the subs. So can it be assumed that all those issues have been ironed out? What sort of technology are the French willing to transfer to us?
Absorbing the technologies is another issue I am glad you bring up. Why would the docks want to go through those growing pains on a new class of submarine now they finally have Scorpene figured out? Equipment and training are already in place will save production and maintenance cost and more importantly... time.

India already has all the production technology to the point of launching. France fits them out with the equipment. If India wants to sign JVs for associated systems, I am sure companies will be happy to outsource there. Of course there is the issue of the 26% foreign investment cap which might hamper that. If India wants it with a nuclear reactor, France is happy to partner on that as we have done in Brasil.
 

neo29

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2009
Messages
1,284
Likes
30
First Scorpene submarine from Mazagaon to roll out in 2015

The delivery of the first Scorpene submarine under Project-75 to the Indian Navy has been put off till second half of 2015, Parliament was informed today.In a written reply to the Lok Sabha, Defence Minister A K Antony said, "The first submarine is now scheduled to be delivered in the second half of 2015. There has been delay due to initial teething problems, absorption of complex technology, augmentation of MDL Infrastructure and procurement of purchased material."
A programme for construction of six submarine is currently underway at Mazagaon Dock Limited (MDL), Mumbai under Project-75.

"As per the contract, first submarine was scheduled to be delived in December 2012 and thereafter, one each every year till December 2017," Antony said.

Informing the House on increase in the project cost, he said, "Government has accorded approval for revision in the cost of Project-75 on account of increase in cost of items purchased by the MDL, related subheads and additional infrastructure."
He said that the Defence Procurement Procedure 2011 has envisaged monitoring of all acquisitions to rule out slippages.

"To ensure that no such slippages occur in future, DPP-2011 envisages close monitoring of acquisitions cases at appropriate level," Antoy said.

http://idrw.org/?p=1045
 

nrj

Ambassador
Joined
Nov 16, 2009
Messages
9,652
Likes
3,876
Country flag
Scorpene Delivery to India Delayed 3 Years


NEW DELHI - Delivery of the first French Scorpene submarine being license-built in India has been delayed by three years, until the latter part of 2015, Indian Defence Minister A.K. Antony told the Indian Parliament in a written statement March 14.

According to the $3.9 billion contract signed in 2005 between India and France, construction of the first three submarines would begin in December 2006, December 2007 and August 2008. As per the contract signed with Mazagon Docks Ltd. (MDL), the first submarine is scheduled to be delivered in December 2012, and one each year until December 2017, Antony said.

Antony, however, told Parliament that the first Scorpene delivery will be delivered in 2015.
"As per the contract, the first submarine was scheduled to be delivered in December 2012 and thereafter, one each every year till December 2017. There have been delays due to initial teething problems, absorption of complex technology, augmentation of MDL infrastructure and procurement" of material. The first submarine is now scheduled to be delivered in the second half of 2015, Antony said.

India is already facing a shortfall in submarines. Currently, the Navy has 14 submarines and, by 2012, there will be nine, a senior Navy official said.

The news of the delay in the Scorpene delivery comes at a time when the Chinese Navy is building several nuclear submarines. China has about 30 modern submarines and few dozen older ones. The Scorpenes are being built under Indian Navy's Project 75, which was approved in 1997.

The Scorpene is a conventional submarine with diesel propulsion. It is 219 feet long and has a speed of more than 20 knots with a displacement of 1,700 tons. With 31 men onboard, it can remain at sea for about 50 days and can dive to a depth of more than 1,000 feet.
 
Last edited:

plugwater

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2009
Messages
4,149
Likes
1,067
With Pakistan buying 6 subs from Chinese we are in shit load of troubles.
 

SHASH2K2

New Member
Joined
May 10, 2010
Messages
5,711
Likes
724
With Pakistan buying 6 subs from Chinese we are in shit load of troubles.
Question is that are those subs really quite to avoid our anti submarine systems and comparable to scorpnes?
 

plugwater

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2009
Messages
4,149
Likes
1,067
Question is that are those subs really quite to avoid our anti submarine systems and comparable to scorpnes?
No idea maybe some Chinese member can help us. Even then its a major threat to our naval fleet.
 

Articles

Top