If India has to go for a two fronts war against China and Pakistan...

[Aravind Sanjeev]

Re: If India has to go for a two fronts war against China and Pakistan

India is the most important reason that Americans support Pakistan. As long as India has the capability to dominate south Asian, everyone needs Pakistan.

And China?

India is not powerful enough to annex Pakistan but Indian forces are powerful enough to defeat Pakistan in any battlefield. Nuclear is Pakistan's only option not India's.

I am talking about going nuclear against China, not Pakistan. China is the significant opponent.

By the way, I don't really think Pakistan is really capable. Last time Lahore was annexed just with 72 soldiers.
Pakistan will need China's support in a war against India and its up to China whether Pakistan or India is important for China.
Why does China really want to make enemity (if that's a word) with India? Is it profitable for China enough? Their main trading partner?

Quite true.



Any full-scale Indo-Pak war would turn nuclear within the first 12 hours. China would not get involved unless India attacked China. Should India launch anything China's way as "revenge" for Chinese assistance to Pakistan's nuclear program, China would loose hundreds of megaton-scale warheads on India and probably annex NE India for itself.

Should China remain neutral in the conflict China would most likely act as the designated diplomatic mediator between India and Pakistan, and push for an international settlement to restore the status quo ante bellum. Should India not accept China's peace proposal China would then lean on India while India is in a weakened state with non-military pressure, with the aim of inducing Indian state collapse.

Sorry, You are utterly wrong. If China could defeat India, Why would it support an unstable country like Pakistan? You really think China annexes a part of India, India will leave China alone?
Even if China wins an ultimate victory, the cost is too high to be affordable. And India ain't gonna attack China for no reason, India is always defensive in nature.
China's support to Pakistans nuclear program will end up like US's support to islamic militants getting ended up destroying their own world trade center. Happens when you support an unpredictable country like Pakistan with no democracy or proper way of administration.

On a side note:
I heard India and China are looking to solve all the issue, it is assumable that a broke in India-China relations is not affordable for both countries.

 

[Compersion]

Re: If India has to go for a two fronts war against China and Pakistan

i still feel that PRC will not support Pakis if there is a choice between India and Pakis because of reasonableness and common sense.

The use of Pakis by PRC is dangerous and it is naivety to think and say that it has been good for both. PRC has definitely benefited but Pakis are not ones to forget and forgive and demand highly favorable recompense that will be in perpetuity if not handled properly. The Pakis might want a sales commission (agency fees) for all the trade done between USA and PRC ... and also UNSC seat

Kargil war is how the Pakis behave ... i am 100% sure PRC dont support such madness if given a choice between and the other choice is India.

to make Pakis into a North Korea is impossible. but to see that attempted by PRC makes for good viewing.

Pakis are impatient ... well perhaps one can say patient to not demand more from PRC already.

Also the economic contours and expansion and possibilities between India and PRC far outweigh what PRC and Pakis can do together and will do together.

 

[no smoking]

Re: If India has to go for a two fronts war against China and Pakistan

And China?

China's influence was almost zero in South Asia as long as there is no Chinese fleet deployed in this area.
Actually, Chinese and American work together quite good in the sub-continent against you know who.

I am talking about going nuclear against China, not Pakistan. China is the significant opponent.

Neither India, nor China, has the capability to initiate a nuclear war.
If a nuclear war is really happening, no matter what damage India can do on China, China can make India suffer more, a lot more.
India's nuclear force is still quite primitive comparing to China:
1. Indian needs at least another 30-40 nuclear tests to perfect her nuclear attack effectiveness;
2. India nuclear war is still stuck with atomic level;
3. Indians haven't reformed their defence system to cop with a nuclear war (you can't do it without data from nuclear test in the air);

By the way, I don't really think Pakistan is really capable. Last time Lahore was annexed just with 72 soldiers.

You are talking about "annex Pakistan" here, right? They are facing only one problem: dying or fighting. Anyone, under such circumstance, is quite capable.

Pakistan will need China's support in a war against India and its up to China whether Pakistan or India is important for China.
Why does China really want to make enemity (if that's a word) with India? Is it profitable for China enough? Their main trading partner?

Why not? China doesn't need step in. All we need to do is: keep send weapons to Pakistan. We don't need even to worry about money since Arabians an Americans will pay the bill.

Sorry, You are utterly wrong. If China could defeat India, Why would it support an unstable country like Pakistan? You really think China annexes a part of India, India will leave China alone?
Even if China wins an ultimate victory, the cost is too high to be affordable. And India ain't gonna attack China for no reason, India is always defensive in nature.

The point is Chinese can keep India blooding without getting in the war if India tries to annex Pakistan. So, what can India do? Attacking China?

China's support to Pakistans nuclear program will end up like US's support to islamic militants getting ended up destroying their own world trade center. Happens when you support an unpredictable country like Pakistan with no democracy or proper way of administration.

That is why you need to learn some knowledge of nuclear war, how complicated and costly it could be to build a nuclear force. There is no "crazy" government can manage to do that.
By the way, the reason that Islamic militants turned against US was the collapse of Soviet. So, as long as India is here and stronger than Pakistan, we are safe.

 

[no smoking]

Re: If India has to go for a two fronts war against China and Pakistan

i still feel that PRC will not support Pakis if there is a choice between India and Pakis because of reasonableness and common sense.

It was true before 2000. But not any more. Chinese starts to think like a global player and Pakistan is the only standing between India and South Asian dominance.

The use of Pakis by PRC is dangerous and it is naivety to think and say that it has been good for both. PRC has definitely benefited but Pakis are not ones to forget and forgive and demand highly favorable recompense that will be in perpetuity if not handled properly. The Pakis might want a sales commission (agency fees) for all the trade done between USA and PRC ... and also UNSC seat

Don't worry, everyone is playing a fair game: you pay what you gain, no more no less.

Kargil war is how the Pakis behave ... i am 100% sure PRC dont support such madness if given a choice between and the other choice is India.

Everyone knows why they did it. We may not agree but we don't think it was madness.

Also the economic contours and expansion and possibilities between India and PRC far outweigh what PRC and Pakis can do together and will do together.

Sino-USA economic and political cooperation has been growing for decades, but it doesn't stop both sides kick each other under the table.

 

[Vishnu]

Block out the strategic Pakistani and Chinese ports....After a couple of days they will have no choice but to surrender as they would run out of oil

 

[Neeraj Mathur]

Block out the strategic Pakistani and Chinese ports....After a couple of days they will have no choice but to surrender as they would run out of oil

not that easy, may be with pakistan but china is not pakistan

 

[Adioz]

Re: If India has to go for a two fronts war against China and Pakistan

i still feel that PRC will not support Pakis if there is a choice between India and Pakis because of reasonableness and common sense.
The use of Pakis by PRC is dangerous and it is naivety to think and say that it has been good for both. PRC has definitely benefited but Pakis are not ones to forget and forgive and demand highly favorable recompense that will be in perpetuity if not handled properly. The Pakis might want a sales commission (agency fees) for all the trade done between USA and PRC ... and also UNSC seat
Kargil war is how the Pakis behave ... i am 100% sure PRC dont support such madness if given a choice between and the other choice is India.
to make Pakis into a North Korea is impossible. but to see that attempted by PRC makes for good viewing.
Pakis are impatient ... well perhaps one can say patient to not demand more from PRC already.
Also the economic contours and expansion and possibilities between India and PRC far outweigh what PRC and Pakis can do together and will do together.

I believe that:
1. If India Pakistan go to war, it will rarely be a two-front war.
2. If China India go to war, it will be a world war. Pakistan will take part, as for them, the opportunity would be a golden one.

 

[no smoking]

Block out the strategic Pakistani and Chinese ports....After a couple of days they will have no choice but to surrender as they would run out of oil

Better have a check on the map before making this kind of nonsense.

How are you going to block those oil coming from Iran to Pakistan which happens to locate next to in the land?
How are you going to block those oil shipping to China from South America? And what Russian oil supplies?
And more importantly, China itself is producing 200 millions tons oil each year now, how can you stop that?

 

[tejas warrior]

These two crazy countries... I tell you.

During the Cold War, if USA launched a nuke-loaded missile, Soviet satellites would inforvm the Soviet army in 3
seconds and in less than 5 seconds Soviet counter-missiles would be on their way.
This was their scenario.... ......... ....

But if there is a nuclear war between India and Pakistan.

The Pakistan army decides to launch a nuke-missile towards India.
They don't need any permission from their government, and promptly order the countdowns.
Indian technology is highly advanced.
In less than 8 seconds, Indian army detects the Pak Countdown and decides to launch a missile in retribution.

But they need permission from the Government of India.

They submit their request to the Indian President. The President forwards it to the Cabinet.

The Prime Minister calls an emergency Lok Sabha session. The LS meets, but due to several walkouts and severe protests by the opposition, it gets
adjourned and adjourned indefinitely.

The President asks for a quick decision.

In the mean time, the Pak missile failed to take off due to technical failure. Their attempts for a relaunch are still on.

Just then the Indian ruling party is reduced to a minority because a
party that was giving outside support withdraws it.
The President asks the PM to prove his majority within a week.
As the ruling party fails to win the confidence vote, a caretaker government is installed.

The caretaker PM decides to permit the armed forces to launch a nuclear missile.

But the Election Commission says that a caretaker government can not take such a decision because elections are at hand.
A Public Interest Litigation is filed in the Supreme Court alleging misuse of power by the Election Commission.

The Supreme Court comes to the rescue of the PM, and says the acting PM is authorized to take this decision in view of the emergency facing the nation.

Just then one of the Pak missiles successfully took off, but it fell 367
miles away from the target, on its own government building at 11.00AM.

Fortunately there were no casualties as no employee had reached the office that early.

In any case, the nuclear core of the missile had detached somewhere
in flight.

The Pakistan army is now trying to get better technologies from China
and USA.

The Indian Government, taking no chances, decides to launch a nuclear missile of its own, after convening an all-party meeting.
This time all the parties agree.

Its three months since the army had sought permission. But as preparations begin, "pro-humanity", "anti-nuclear" activists come out against the Government's decision.

Human chains are formed and Rasta rokos organised.

In California and Washington endless
e-mails are sent to Indians condemning
the government and mentioning "Please forward it to as many Indians as possible".

On the Pakistan side, the missiles kept malfunctioning. Some missiles deviate
from target due to technical failures
or high-speed wind blowing over Rajasthan.

Many of them land in the Indian Ocean killing some fishes.

A missile (smuggled from USA) is pressed into service.

Since the Pakistan army is unable to understand its software, it hits its original destination: Russia.

Russia successfully intercepts the missile and in retaliation launches a nuclear missile towards Islamabad.

The missile hits the target and creates havoc.

Pakistan cries for help. India expresses deep regrets for what has happened and
sends in a million dollars worth of
Parle-G biscuits.

Thus India never gets to launch the missile.

Pakistan never gets it right.

And......

we live happily happily ever after.

 

[Screambowl]

No one will survive. Why I am saying this because, Pakistan will push forwards for nuclear war by all means. It will be total annihilation of the region.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

No one will survive. Why I am saying this because, Pakistan will push forwards for nuclear war by all means. It will be total annihilation of the region.

IMO Pakistan does not have the capability for annihilating much more than small parts of a city if they are lucky .

The thing to remember is Pakistan will only have one chance and will have to unload everything they have after that there maybe nothing left?

Indian BMD and AWACS (and SAR satellites)will be able to track and intercept almost everything

China I do not think will be directly involved?

No matter what happens india with it's vast fissile material reserves india can always go back and make more warheads . Pakistan will not be able too and all infrastructure remnants of civilization will be gone.

The most important thing for india is to protect the water supply .

It is silly for two nations to have nuclear exchange when they share the same water supply but if one has a suicidal death wish what can the other do?

 

[Compersion]

Is it possible that anyother to India would and can invade and take over administration of Pakistan and even parts of it:

• Afghanistan
• Iran
• UAE
• PRC
• Saudi
• USA
• Taliban
• Religious body
• Other-Terrorist body (e.g. IS)

**Some of the above have already done it.

Militarily: Do we focus on making sure the missiles and delivery vehicles do not enter into India. Do we focus on getting the maximum territory of Pakistan. Having 1000+ brahmos on the border of Pakistan does it help ?? Apparently they are fast and accurate. The plains that are to the West of India.

Also

Everyone knows India does not have any covert capability in Pakistan and assets in Military and Politics. :blah::blah::blah::blah::blah:

Many will also say perhaps the will to live for Pakistan has to be made to such a level where they wont want to risk their lives ... Communist State of Pakistan (AKA North Korea of the west).

No one will say that perhaps the Pakistan people reach such a level where they wont object to having outside help and assistance and control.

 

[no smoking]

IMO Pakistan does not have the capability for annihilating much more than small parts of a city if they are lucky .

Neither does India, nor China.

Indian BMD and AWACS (and SAR satellites)will be able to track and intercept almost everything

First, your system is still decades from mature;
Without early strategic warning system, you may only have minutes to prepare yourself; Consider you 2 sharing the land border, the time could be narrowed into seconds, so even if you have American's system, you are still going to miss most of them.

China I do not think will be directly involved?

I agree.

No matter what happens india with it's vast fissile material reserves india can always go back and make more warheads . Pakistan will not be able too and all infrastructure remnants of civilization will be gone.

First, you will need years to refine those fissile material up to weapon level (90%);
Second, don't you think your refinery factory will be in their top target lists?
Third, the world will intervene and disarm both of you.

It is silly for two nations to have nuclear exchange when they share the same water supply but if one has a suicidal death wish what can the other do?

How about don't push him into corner.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

The goal has never been annihilation of Pakistan Pakistan and india are same people separated by outside powers and interference by outside powers.

The systems maybe decades away for ballistic missiles but for what Pakistan currently has it is more than sufficient

There is more than one refinery factory and many warheads are also kept unmarked in different areas india presently has capability for 100 warheads annually and 700 or more annually by end of the decade.

What corner has india pushed Pakistan in? India is forcing Pakistan to have a terrorist based policy? To carry out 9/11 to hide mullah Omar and Osama bin laden? Why doesn't china be a true friend and open up immigration and asylum for Pakistanis?

If india wants to push Pakistan in a corner we can just throw out the indus water treaty and stop sharing indian water with them. Which we have not even after four wars.

 

[I_PLAY_BAD]

If Pakistan initiates a nuclear attack, no matter what we must proceed forward and dismember Pakistan entirely. Otherwise we are happy happy and lets continue our journey towards self-sustainability and growth. India is a peaceful country

 

[no smoking]

The goal has never been annihilation of Pakistan Pakistan and india are same people separated by outside powers and interference by outside powers.

There is no country on the earth is planning to annihilate another one. But war gets out of control quite often, so every country will prepare the worst case within their capabilities.

The systems maybe decades away for ballistic missiles but for what Pakistan currently has it is more than sufficient

Americans, Russians and Chinese don't think so.

There is more than one refinery factory and many warheads are also kept unmarked in different areas india presently has capability for 100 warheads annually and 700 or more annually by end of the decade.

Well, they have more than hundred warheads. And there won't be many warheads left after a nuclear exchange between you two.

And no, you won't have 700 more by the end of the decades. There is reason why British, French and China only keep 2-300 warheads. They are damn expensive.

What corner has india pushed Pakistan in? India is forcing Pakistan to have a terrorist based policy? To carry out 9/11 to hide mullah Omar and Osama bin laden? Why doesn't china be a true friend and open up immigration and asylum for Pakistanis?

Stop being like a baby. India is doing the same thing in Pakistan and China.

If india wants to push Pakistan in a corner we can just throw out the indus water treaty and stop sharing indian water with them. Which we have not even after four wars.

Because your government understands where the line is.
But you know, Pakistan has to prepare some Indian fools take the top position.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

You are one delusional person. You have never provided a link for any of
your arguments. I will provide one if you do I guarantee you will not be able.
India needs to focus on china ; Pakistan is no longer a concern

 

[I_PLAY_BAD]

There is no country on the earth is planning to annihilate another one. But war gets out of control quite often, so every country will prepare the worst case within their capabilities.

There is Government of Pakistan which has always planned, nurtured and executed many attacks on India and when India condemns it they play their funny nuclear card. Is it not blackmailing or threatening ? I am sure Pakistan will go to any extent to annihilate India in case of a war. But the fact is exactly different for India. Though we had good chances of totally annihilating them during past wars we refrained and limited ourselves only to acceptable/painful damage.

 

[no smoking]

There is Government of Pakistan which has always planned, nurtured and executed many attacks on India and when India condemns it they play their funny nuclear card. Is it not blackmailing or threatening ? I am sure Pakistan will go to any extent to annihilate India in case of a war. But the fact is exactly different for India. Though we had good chances of totally annihilating them during past wars we refrained and limited ourselves only to acceptable/painful damage.

Well, neither of you two can annihilate the other side (200 warheads is far from accomplishing that). The only reason you refrained is: it is not worth to fight a nuclear war with Pakistan.

 

[no smoking]

You are one delusional person. You have never provided a link for any of
your arguments. I will provide one if you do I guarantee you will not be able.

https://books.google.com.au/books?i...e&q=india training tibetan insurgency&f=false

http://www.dawn.com/news/120550/del...istan-india-involved-in-quetta-killing-faisal

http://www.ibnlive.com/news/india/india-denies-report-of-training-terrorists-in-tn-461501.html

Of course, feel free to call them propaganda.