If India has to go for a two fronts war against China and Pakistan...

[arya]

@ace finally u put life in dead body

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

nasr batteries will be blown away by parahaar missiles from ranges of 150km.

 

[ace009]

@ace finally u put life in dead body

Hey - never let a good fight (read discussion) die off of old-age!

 

[Anshu Attri]

Plan panel pushes for early completion


Plan panel pushes for early completion

The Planning Commission is considering the early execution of five major railway projects in the Himalayan region, as it has directed the railway ministry to prepare a blueprint of the estimate on funds, technical inputs and prospective time for their completion.

The commission now plans to allocate funds for the projects in the 12th Five Year Plan that starts from April 2012. "We will include these in the category of projects having national importance," a senior official said. "It will enable them to raise funds,' he told Business Standard.


A Railway official, when contacted, confirmed that the issue was under consideration of the Planning Commission.

RIGHT TRACK
* Five major railway projects being considered by Planning Commission
* The Commission to allocate funds for the projects in the 12th Five-Year Plan
* These are part of 14 projects hanging fire due to strategic issues
* Among them five were found to be feasible and of strategic importance
* While two projects are in Uttarakhand, one is in Jammu and Kashmir and the last one is in Arunachal Pradesh
The railway projects include the 125-km Rishikesh-Karanprayag railway line involving a project cost of Rs 4,295 crore, the 154-km Rs 2,791-crore Tanakpur-Bageshwar line (both in Uttarakhand), the Rs 13,631-crore Jammu-Akhnoor-Poonch railway link covering 233 km in Jammu and Kashmir, the 498-km Bilaspur-Mandi railway link in Himachal Pradesh and the 110-km Rupai-Parasuramkund railway link in Arunachal Pradesh.

These five main railway projects are part of the 14 such Himalayan-region projects that have been hanging fire for long because of strategic issues.

Among them five were found to be feasible and of strategic importance, as it evolved from a meeting between officials from the defence ministry along with its counterparts in Railways and senior officials from the Planning Commission.

"The work on them could start during the 12th FYP," a senior official said.

 

[Anshu Attri]

Work on Rishikesh-Karanprayag railway line to begin soon: MP


The Tribune, Chandigarh, India - Dehradun Edition

Dehradun, October 10
Congress MP from Pauri Garhwal Satpal Maharaj has said that work on the Rishikesh-Karanprayag railway line will soon be inaugurated by United Progressive Alliance (UPA) Chairperson and Congress President Sonia Gandhi.

In a press release issued here today, the MP said he had approached Sonia Gandhi during the Air Force Day function held recently to get her consent for inaugurating the important railway line in Uttarakhand. He said Sonia Gandhi had readily agreed to his request. The 125-km-long Rishikesh-Karanprayag railway line was sanctioned by former Union Railways Minister Mamata Banerjee and a sum of Rs 4,295 crore was also earmarked in the Railway Budget for the same.

He said work on the project, which was earlier entrusted to the engineering wing of the Northen Railways, would now be undertaken by the Railways Development Corporation.

He further said the corporation had been given a time frame of five years to complete the railway line that would have 12 railway stations, 81 tunnels and a 65-meter-high rail bridge.

Flaying the BJP for taking credit for the project, Satpal Maharaj said the people of the state were aware of the fact that who had initiated the move for a railway line up to Karanprayag.

Satpal Maharaj, who is also the Chairman of the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Defence said, such projects were of national importance and political parties should not indulge in petty politics on the issue.

 

[Anshu Attri]

Army likely to recruit one lakh soldiers for China border


Army likely to recruit one lakh soldiers for China border - The Times of India

NEW DELHI: Faced with growing Chinese military presence along the border and other complex security challenges in the region, the government is planning to increase the strength of the Indian Army by almost one lakh soldiers over the next five years.

Authoritative sources told TOI that the Ministry of Defence (MoD) has approved a Rs 64,000-crore (approximately $13 billion) military modernization plan that would include raising four new divisions along the India-China border. Two of these would be part of a Mountain Strike Corps dedicated to offensive operations. The plan also includes raising two independent brigades, one in Ladakh and the other in Uttarakhand.

Once cleared, this would be the biggest ever modernization and expansion package for the army. It would also be the largest increase in deployment along the China border seen since the immediate aftermath of the 1962 war.

Two weeks ago, MoD sent its plan to the finance ministry for scrutiny and approval, authoritative sources said. Once cleared, the proposal would be put up before the Cabinet Committee on Security for approval and financial sanction.

A senior MoD official said, under the proposal, the army will induct 90,000 more soldiers over the next five years during the 12th five-year plan period from 2012 to 2017-all of them for deployment along the China border. In the 11th Plan, the army's strength was augmented by 36,000 for two new divisions.

The proposed modernization plan includes a comprehensive overhaul and upgrade of the army's fire-power, logistical capabilities and other aspects of the China border deployment.

The army's projected requirement for ultra-light Howitzers for mountains would double, while it would also require a major addition to its helicopter capabilities, sources said.

A senior MoD source said while the proposal was focused on the India-China border, some military expansion is planned in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands. At present, the army has just a brigade of soldiers in the islands. This is expected to be stepped up to the strength of a division, he said. There are also plans to increase air force and naval capabilities in Andaman and Nicobar as well as along the China border, he said.

The MoD had raised some initial concerns about the cost involved in a comprehensive military upgrade plan and the file was returned to the army headquarters a couple of months ago. But after a few rounds of consultations within the MoD, the defence acquisition council headed by minister A K Antony cleared the plan early last month, sources said.

Sources said the projected expansion budget of Rs 64,000crore includes the cost of new helipads and air strips, and also last-mile road linkages. It would also include the cost of implementing new concepts of military transformation, which are now being tested, including the capability to operate in smaller units and providing logistics in an integrated manner.

 

[ace009]

Sources said the projected expansion budget of Rs 64,000crore includes the cost of new helipads and air strips, and also last-mile road linkages. It would also include the cost of implementing new concepts of military transformation, which are now being tested, including the capability to operate in smaller units and providing logistics in an integrated manner.

What does that mean in english? Squad level insertions (ALH), company level insertions using transport helos? Paradrops?

 

[Anshu Attri]

India approves third set of two mountain divisions in its buildup against China

Orders of Battle - Orbat.com News (America Goes to War)
India approves third set of two mountain divisions in its buildup against China. The first set of two was raised last year; approval for two more had been recently given, and now a third set of two has been cleared. Though the second and third pairs are under the 2012-2017 defense plan, which will start next year, its likely the new divisions will be raised well before 2017.

With this approval, Indian Army has obtained its minimum requirement against China. It actually wants a total of eleven new divisions, doubling the size of the force available against China.

The next step is up to China. We have said before that for absolutely no rational reason China has brought this Indian buildup on itself by pushing and pushing India in the north when India was perfectly content to mind its own business. China has to learn it may be the center of the Earth, if it mistreats neighbors there will be a reaction. If China now reacts by further provoking India, then those five extra divisions will happen. To begin with 15 large divisions facing Tibet is not exactly a joke, but twenty will be even more devoid of comedy.

Moreover, India deliberately misleads the world by talking of "mountain divisions", implying that its plains divisions cannot be used in the mountains. They very much can.

In addition to the six divisions raised or cleared, India has also cleared two mountain infantry and two armored brigade groups for the China border.

Now before our Indian friends go high-fiving, there's a couple of things for India to remember. Its weapons procurement program is a complete and utter mess. And while it has woken up to the need to improve its transport infrastructure in the north, it is twenty years behind China in this game. So that's nice there are to be all these extra troops in the north. That doesn't mean India can go burping and belching along on its very long delayed helicopter and medium artillery modernization/expansion programs, scratching under its armpits and carefully examining its navel for lint.

As an example of India's approach, after 50 years it decided to improve the roads in the XXXIII Corps sector (Sikkim). The original route was shot down by Ministry of Environment. Then the army gave two alternate routes. Also shot down by Ministry of Environment. Now, India is a terribly environmentally degraded country, just as is China. The latter is in worse shape because its economic expansion has been going on for a decade longer than India's and Chinese industry has grown manifold since 1980. The environment does matter. But on the other side of the border you have a competitor who does not give half-a-hoot about the environment. In any case Tibet is like a Chinese colony. So the Indian leadership either tells Ministry of Environment that sorry about that, these roads have to be built, or it calls in environmental experts and triples the outlays to get the roads build causing minimum damage, or it lays out $30-50 billion to buy helicopters and heavy transport aircraft. This last will help, but of course you're still going to need roads.

 

[ace009]

Why is it that there is no mention of infrastructure development in the Northeast and Kashmir?

 

[Anshu Attri]

Defence spend in 5 years to cross Rs 5,20,000 crore


Defence spend in 5 years to cross Rs 5,20,000 crore - The Times of India

NEW DELHI: Defending long unresolved borders against two potentially hostile nuclear-armed neighbours does not come cheap. Besides, acquiring a wide array of weapon systems for billions of dollars, India will spend upwards of Rs 60,000 crore over the next five years on developing military infrastructure and capabilities for the western and eastern fronts.

If the cost of raising the already-sanctioned new mountain strike corps in the north-east is pegged at another Rs 60,000 crore and a conservative estimate of defence capital outlay in the 2012-2017 timeframe crossing Rs 4,00,000 crore are taken into account, it adds up to a staggering Rs 5,20,000 crore. This does not include the huge day-to-day cost of maintaining a 13-lakh armed forces.

Defence minister A K Antony on Monday gave figures for the planned development of military infrastructure, with new fighter bases, helipads, bunkers, forward ammunition dumps and the like, to strategically counter China and Pakistan.

Responding to queries on major projects of Military Engineer Services (MES) in Lok Sabha, Antony pegged the planned ``development'' of Army infrastructure and ``improvement'' of IAF infrastructure in the north-east at Rs 7,374 crore and Rs 1,753 crore, respectively.

Similarly, capability development along the northern borders will cost Rs 24,312 crore, while upgrade of storage facility for ammunition will come for Rs 18,450 crore.

Construction of suitable habitat for soldiers deployed in high-altitude areas like Kargil, Siachen-Saltoro Ridge and Ladakh, which includes insulation, dome and fibre-glass based shelters, will cost another Rs 6,000 crore.

Sources say the infrastructure coming up in the Eastern Army Command includes 5,572 ``permanent defences and bunkers'' along the Line of Actual Control with China as well as helicopter and drone bases at Missamari, Kumbhigram and Lilabari in Assam.

This is in addition to IAF deploying Sukhoi-30MKI fighters in Tezpur and Chabua as well as progressively upgrading ALGs (advanced landing grounds) in Arunachal and eastern Ladakh.

The Army's offensive punch will, however, come when the new mountain strike corps, with headquarters in Panagarh (West Bengal), takes concrete shape in the 12th Plan, with two new specially trained and equipped divisions under it.:thumb:

Two divisions, with 1,260 officers and 35,011 soldiers, with their HQs in Zakama (56 Div) in Nagaland and Missamari (71 Div) in Assam, have been raised over the last couple of years.

Together, the four new divisions add up to around 75,000 troops. ``For decades, our posture against China in North-East has been defensive. This is the first time we will have offensive capabilities in the mountains if they are needed,'' said a source.

They are needed, even if for deterrence. With five fully-operational airbases, an extensive rail network and over 58,000-km of roads in Tibet Autonomous Region (TAR), China is capable of rushing over 30 divisions (each with over 15,000 soldiers) at their ``launch pads'' on LAC in double-quick time, outnumbering Indian forces by at least 3:1 in the region.

 

[nitesh]

These are harsh words coming from chief:

Army: China’s Misadventure will lead to bloodshed | idrw.org

Any misadventure by China would cause enough bloodshed to draw the world's attention, a tough-talking army chief asserted on Thursday. General VK Singh described the Chinese act of damaging a wall on the Indian side of the line of actual

control (LAC) in July 2011 as "childish." The chief said the Indian Army viewed that incident in Arunachal Pradesh's Yangtse sector as a childish act and it did not qualify as a skirmish.



"It was not a skirmish. The day it happens the whole world will come to know. If something were to happen, there will be enough noise and bloodshed and everyone will come to know," Singh told reporters at his customary news conference ahead of the 64th Army Day on January 15.

Reflective of Chinese assertiveness along the LAC, a patrolling party of the People's Liberation Army (PLA) attempted to scale and damaged a 250-metre wall on the Indian side on July 13, 2011. Indian troops prevented the Chinese patrol from crossing the wall.

General Singh said, "It was akin to a child taking away some other child's toy and scoring brownie points."

 

[Ray]

India is ready to take on a two front offensive.

 

[Ray]

What does that mean in english? Squad level insertions (ALH), company level insertions using transport helos? Paradrops?

C 130J and C 17 for strategic and tactical lifts.

Small unit possibly means SF and like units.

 

[nitesh]

A well researched article:

http://idsa.in/system/files/PB_ChineseAggressiveness.pdf

 

[nitesh]

Counter view of the above:

Is India Preparing To Lose?

The lack of aggression in our culture or psyche has and is playing havoc in our foreign policy, military affairs, internal affairs and every sphere of influence. We are docile and mute spectators to China's aggressive designs and Pakistan's sinister, belligerent behaviour. China's open intimidation that it can divide Indian into 20-30 pieces and its brazen call to assist the insurgent regional groups in India to create 'independent nation states of their own, out of India', or Pakistan's 26/11 carnage in the heart of India, have united us and moved us to tears but not to action.

Any strong and scathing remark against China or Chinese interests is fended off by the Indian Government as a personal view. The Government's view against both the belligerent and the rogue state is restricted to the occasional tall claims that our military can take on Pakistan and Taliban; Arunachal Pradesh is part of India and the incursions in the LOC and LAC are statistically minimal. They are pleasing to the ears, but incidentally, we have not been able to take on the naxals, the Maoists and the insurgent groups in India. Do our establishments believe that Pakistan, Taliban and China are a tad easier to handle?

The preparations that have undergone in countering the Chinese menace are open knowledge and don't demand enumeration. If one has to compare the concerted efforts by the Chinese in creating infrastructure to reach the Indian borders with ease; its claims over India's northeast borders; the Tibetan and the Dalai Lama issue; its indoctrination against Indian interests by manipulating its media, vis-à-vis the Indian efforts to counter China, one would be aghast. The nation has conscientiously kept the thought of emerging China at bay and has been reveling under the cloak of naivety, about the growing bilateral and trade relations and ego pleasing promises being made by China.

It may be open secrets within the informed circles, but its admission in public doesn't serve the national interest. One should remember that we won the previous wars neither due to military might nor weapon power but only due to the courage of men in the front. They have been trained to achieve 'much more with much less' and 'fight with what you have'. Remember, the Defence Ministry is still acquiring snow boots, thermal cameras and other gadgets with which they should have fought the Kargil War, a decade back.

Are the commanders scared of a war? No. They are anxious about the dismal state of security affairs and the all pervasive helplessness: whether it is procurements, upgradation of arms, ammunition and armour, we are lagging behind due to the labyrinth of procedures, influential middlemen, shortsightedness of the bureaucracy and apathy of the political masters. This helplessness has manifested at all levels - the late President KR Narayanan spoke about his helplessness in the Godhra communal pogrom; the Supreme Court Judge stated '..God only should save this country'; and the Prime Minister spoke about the Communists marring all growth in the previous regime. This helplessness expressed by the executive, legal and judiciary echelons is an indicator for immediate corrective action. On the other hand, the helplessness of the Commanders borders on the security and the sovereignty of the Republic. We cannot fight believing that we are vulnerable. The debates on operational preparedness are to be restricted to the defence forces and not expose our vulnerabilities to the world.

Democracy isn't all about the freedom to select and elect, speak and write. It also implies the duty of every citizen to defend its peace and tranquility. The enemies are trying to intimidate us, and are waiting for the opportune moment when there is sagging of morale, depletion of force levels, and serious internal discord.

Rather than speaking about the 1962 defeat, we should indoctrinate ourselves to repay the loss. China's military is a big enemy, great in firepower, but, it is not a battle hardened army. Let us stop overrating our enemy. They are willing to flex their muscle because of their new found economic growth, military modernisation and above all, our meekness. Notwithstanding that our growth is not comparable, we will allow our military capabilities to retard at our own peril.

 

[Param]

I suspect that when or if the US gets busy in Iran the PLA might see at as the right moment on the Tibetan border.

 

[Ray]

I suspect that when or if the US gets busy in Iran the PLA might see at as the right moment on the Tibetan border.

They are welcome to do so!

 

[amitkriit]

Two-front war is not a great idea. Old knowledge tells us to divide our enemies, and not unite them, particularly when they are Pakistan and China. We must gather as many friends as possible, who can actually come to our assistance, and we must keep working on making China friendless. In real world it is extremely hard for us to isolate China for several reasons, I see foreign powers leaning more towards China in case of an emergency, China is more important for them.

My question is what are our options?

 

[sayareakd]

not too many options and dont expect and help from any one, as it will be short war and others will take time to send in military material help, plus we need time to get our guys to effectively use any foreign military material.

If such thing happen test nukes and change our nuclear policy that will save lot of lives, if bluff pays off.

 

[Param]

not too many options and dont expect and help from any one, as it will be short war and others will take time to send in military material help, plus we need time to get our guys to effectively use any foreign military material.

If such thing happen test nukes and change our nuclear policy that will save lot of lives, if bluff pays off.

that's exactly what i was thin king of just now!

A couple of big thermonuclear tests would even bring the entire word's attention and make them concerned.