If India has to go for a two fronts war against China and Pakistan...

[sant]

Destroy pak with nukes intially and take on chinese later

 

[sayareakd]

Having the Indian Army facing off against the threat of a two-front war, is hardly a good situation to be in.

In fact, it seems like an awful situation to be in. That's my opinion of course, maybe you have more insight into the specifics.

yeah not very good situation, but if that happens, then we are going to throw no first use in dust bin and test thermo nukes thereafter God helps us all.

 

[sayareakd]

still i dont think China which has high aspirations at world stage at this point of time want to mess up with India. If it does it is going to hurt its own chances of being world power.

Indian military planners have been working on two front war for sometime.

 

[ace009]

yeah not very good situation, but if that happens, then we are going to throw no first use in dust bin and test thermo nukes thereafter God helps us all.

No Sayerakd, in case of a two-front war, India would like to do a hold against PRC while try to destroy the PAF/PA. Whether in current terms or for the near future, PAF/PA is in both qualitative and quantitative disadvantage against IAF/IA. So, the first goal for India would be to roll over PAF/ PA ASAP and make Pakistan give up on war. Destroying a large part of their armor and combat aircraft would be enough to stop them for the near future. India need not take over significant parts of Pakistan - if at all, just threatening Lahore with IA armor thrust and Islamabad with IAF aircraft and IA missiles should do the trick for India - Pakistan would surrender the war.
For China, the situation is reversed. PLA and PLAAF are both quantitatively and in some aspects (missile, production rate etc) better than IA or IAF. India's greatest ally is neither USA, nor Russia. It is the Himalayas. Due to the terrain, PLA would be hard pressed to use it's quantitative and qualitative superiority. IA and IAF, planning ahead should be able to counter a Chinese threat.

The only scenario when India can and should use a nuclear first strike is if PLA marches onto Indian territory threatening the sovereignty of India.

 

[Tianshan]

The only scenario when India can and should use a nuclear first strike is if PLA marches onto Indian territory threatening the sovereignty of India.

won't pakistan do the same if you do what you said below?

So, the first goal for India would be to roll over PAF/ PA ASAP and make Pakistan give up on war.

pakistan already test nasr for this

 

[LETHALFORCE]

pakistan already test nasr for this

Can you expand on this since you know so much about Pakistan??

 

[Tianshan]

Can you expand on this since you know so much about Pakistan??

here

Pakistan on Tuesday successfully test-fired a newly-developed short-range surface-to-surface nuclear-capable missile, according to an official announcement by the Pakistan Army. The multi-tube ballistic missile, Hatf-IX (Nasr), is a 60-km range missile that has been developed to add deterrence value at shorter ranges to Pakistan's Strategic Weapons Development Programme. The missile has been developed with shoot-and-scoot capability. The test was conducted from an unidentified location.

Strategic planners term the test a 'new and very significant development' since the missile falls in the category of tactical nuclear weapons. "This is a low-yield battlefield deterrent, capable of deterring and inflicting punishment on mechanised forces like armed brigades and divisions," said an expert in the field of missile technology. "This takes care of the Indian Army's obsession with finding space for limited war under the nuclear umbrella."

Pakistan test-fires Hatf-IX

tactical nuclear warheads are designed for battlefield use

 

[LETHALFORCE]

here



Pakistan test-fires Hatf-IX

tactical nuclear warheads are designed for battlefield use

how will this stop warplanes since you are an expert?? short range rocket is useless against warplanes unless chinese know something that the world dosen't know.

 

[Tianshan]

how will this stop warplanes since you are an expert?? Artillery is useless against warplanes unless chinese know something that the world dosen't know.

here is what he said

So, the first goal for India would be to roll over PAF/PA asap and make Pakistan give up on war. Destroying a large part of their armor and combat aircraft would be enough to stop them for the near future. India need not take over significant parts of Pakistan - if at all, just threatening Lahore with IA armor thrust and Islamabad with IAF aircraft and IA missiles should do the trick for India - Pakistan would surrender the war.

destory the PAF and the PA, and threaten an armour thrust against lahore?

like the article said, nasr is design to deter "limited war". does this not count as limited war?

 

[LETHALFORCE]

He is talking about combat aircraft and PAF, so i don't think Nasr will do much after PAF is crushed . What is so special about Nasr?? How is a katusya type rocket nuke capable??

 

[Tianshan]

He is talking about combat aircraft and PAF, so i don't think Nasr will do much after PAF is crushed . What is so special about Nasr?? How is a katusya type rocket nuke capable??

he always said "PAF/PA"

No Sayerakd, in case of a two-front war, India would like to do a hold against PRC while try to destroy the PAF/PA. Whether in current terms or for the near future, PAF/PA is in both qualitative and quantitative disadvantage against IAF/IA. So, the first goal for India would be to roll over PAF/PA asap and make Pakistan give up on war. Destroying a large part of their armor and combat aircraft would be enough to stop them for the near future. India need not take over significant parts of Pakistan - if at all, just threatening Lahore with IA armor thrust and Islamabad with IAF aircraft and IA missiles should do the trick for India - Pakistan would surrender the war.

even if just airforce, still counts as limited war

 

[LETHALFORCE]

he always said "PAF/PA"



even if just airforce, still counts as limited war

Why would it be limited?? If Nasr is used it will save them???It will not invite a more massive retaliation??

 

[Tianshan]

Why would it be limited?? If Nasr is used it will save them???It will not invite a more massive retaliation??

is that not the point of nasr? to deter limited war, by increasing the risk to nuclear

 

[Iamanidiot]

Ost mainland origin posters no zilch about war in the Indian scenario and post crap in this thread

 

[Virendra]

If I'm not not wrong Nasr has a range of 60 kms and modern artillery guns today are reaching up to 90 kms. Isn't this going to fail Nasr?
By the way, I think Pakistan made Nasr not to blow it up in India but to blow it up right on the border or inside their own territory making themselves too poisonous to be eaten up.
Isn't this going to defeat and devastate them in the very first place. Yes we may stop our advance, but then, they've screwed up their own a** themselves in the process trying not to be screwed by us !!

I have a lot of doubt on utility of this missile in particular, at least against an opponent like India.

Regards,
Virendra

 

[Bhadra]

Technology will Win Wars

I just know that almost all chinese industry output ,from cars,ship-buildings,steels,electricity,concrete,tractors to toys and shoes,are 5-15 times more than Indias.

once fullly moblized, all those industry output would become the supply in battlefields.

No Sir,

You are outdated and leaving in WWII environment where wars were won on assembly lines and factories. Todays wars will be won on computers and R&D labs churning out new tacnologies. If wars would be won by churning out toys and sphuries third class products, like China does, they would have overwhelmed Taiwan thousand times over by now. But Taiwan sustains becuase Chinese are not able to defeat US tecnology as menifested in their weaponary.

In the context of India and China, the factories and their capacities may be crucial provided the technology fails to culminate the war in a fortnight. In a short, intense and localised high density war, It is the technological superiority that will determine the outcome.

India and china conflict is not going to spread over five years wherein the billlions of Chinese in factories will win a War for China. It is going to be ones mastery over the space, electronics, communications, Stealth techonology and capcities of rapid reactions that will ditermine the outcome. Therefore, Chinese can not afford to underestimate Indians.

The aim of both the nations should be NOT TO HAVE A WAR. That is ingrained in Indian culture as Budha Conquored entire China without a gun. But opposite is true of the Chinese history and culture where power has ever generated through the "Barrels of the Guns".

That is what is the biggest danger !!

 

[ace009]

here is what he said

destory the PAF and the PA, and threaten an armour thrust against lahore?

like the article said, nasr is design to deter "limited war". does this not count as limited war?

Yes it does - however, think of this, in case of an armored thrust towards Lahore into Pakistan by IA, you think Pakistan will use the Nasr on IA formations, which are in close contact with the PA - how do you think that makes sense to PA, who wants to use the nuclear weapons as an "ultimate weapon". Anyway, Pakistan has more and better strategic missiles than tactical missiles and very few if any good mobile launch platforms that can deliver precise tactical nukes for strikes on enemy columns.

The Nasr is a tactical nuke capable missile, which should be present with the PA army corps. I am not sure what it is doing with PA strategic command. Pakistan actually does NOT have a distinct strategic forces corps separate from PA - unlike USA, Russia, France, UK, India etc. Their command structure is more similar to PLA in terms of nuclear weapons control. So, in case of a war, it is more likely for the PA to deploy strategic weapons than tactical weapons since the short term costs associated with a strategic weapon (a long distance missile fired onto an Indian city) is much less than that of a tactical nuke (a short distance missile fired onto an Indian column in close combat with a PA column). Morale wise, a strike onto the heart of "Hindu India" is far better than a strike on Pakistani soil which might kill fellow PA soldiers involving Nasr.

Compared to that, IA has command of tactical missiles like Prahaar and Trishul while the streategic missiles like Agni I, II, III, Prithvi I and II, Surya, Shaurya etc are under the command of SFC. As a result, it is difficult if not impossible for for IA to use a strategic nuke, but they can easily use the tactical missiles (mostly conventional, rarely nuclear) in their command.

So, to cut a long story short, Nasr being used by PA against IA thrust is acceptable, although Nasr being armed with tactical nuke warhead is indeed strange since it would have collateral damage to their own country, especialy in the rich densely populated lands around Lahore. However, PA will like to launch strategic nuke missiles, which means it would be a "retaliation" instead of a defense move.
As for India, using tactical missiles against invading PLA is probable, using tactical nukes against PLA in the remote passes of Arunachal Pradesh is possible although unlikely. Strategic nuke use against PLA is again highly unlikely and will happen only as a "second strike".
Look at where and how the PA will encounter IA and where and how the IA will encounter PLA - then tell me if using nukes is a good idea for Pakistan against India versus if it is good idea for India against PRC.

 

[sayareakd]

destory the PAF and the PA, and threaten an armour thrust against lahore?

like the article said, nasr is design to deter "limited war". does this not count as limited war?

yeah destroying PA, PAF and PN is top priority at the time of war. Why you want IA to go into Lahore, IA dont want to go into urban warfare with house to house fighting in Lahore, it is old city.

As far as Nasr and limited war is concern, if Pakistan thinks having Nasr they can stop Cold start thrust into Pakistan, then they are in for shock of their life. If Nasr is used, I hope Pakistan will use other nukes on India, if they dont, their wont be anything worth calling Pakistan after that.

This fact is time and again mention by GOI.

If Pakistan think that they can do nuclear blackmail with India, it will be their biggest mistake.

 

[sant]

Till monkeys and donkeys ruling our country can't expect heavy response.

 

[ace009]

Whom do you think should rule in India?