If India has to go for a two fronts war against China and Pakistan...

[Officer of Engineers]

I respect your views but my view is that earlier the experience doesn’t mean it becomes more irrelevant.

We're talking past each other. I view the events through the lens of a military man.

I admire your humour. but its serious man.

I was serious. Both Hitler and Stalin knew war was coming. Stalin tried to buy time by agreeing to divide Poland. Time just ran out.

Survival contests will require whatever you can give.

How about surrender?

OOE Sir, from what I know, India contributed more to WW2 than France did.

France was knocked out early in the war.

And definitely greater than China did.

No. As I stated, the Chinese lost more men under arms than India had in uniform. That's only part of the price they paid. The untold number of famines during 10 years of war, Nanking, and Unit 731. India doesn't even compare to the price the Chinese paid.

Granted, the British Indian Army won a hell of a lot more victories than the Chinese but the Chinese took a much bigger beating and still was not knocked out.

However, this is besides the point. The point here is that claiming better battle experience or being better battle hardened is just a p!ssing contest that ignores a hell of a lot of facts.

IA had become the largest all volunteer army during WW2 at more than 2 million men. We also provided the 3rd largest contingent after America and Britain in Italy.

Yeah, I'm sorry about that. Kesselring was a better general than Patton and Monte in that theatre.

 

[advaita]

No
That is why the referandum. New world order or New Chinese order??????
Dear Ray,
I respect you and am proud of your contribution. but the chinese has already send you on to a diversion.

 

[Sabir]

would any other countries be involved on the Indian side in this scenario??

No other country will join the war I think. Bigger powers will keep on requesting both parties to sit and solve the issues through discussion and avoid going for a confrontation with either one as that can intensify the situation and lead to nuclear war.

India has good relation with most of the gulf countries so its unlikely they will stand for Pakistan. Only if Israel joins India Arab countries will join Pakistan....so it's unlikely for Israel to directly join India camp..and their mentor USA will be against that.

Smaller neighbours will avoid joining anyside fearing punishing strikes from more powerful opponent.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

No other country will join the war I think. Bigger powers will keep on requesting both parties to sit and solve the issues through discussion and avoid going for a confrontation with either one as that can intensify the situation and lead to nuclear war.

India has good relation with most of the gulf countries so its unlikely they will stand for Pakistan. Only if Israel joins India Arab countries will join Pakistan....so it's unlikely for Israel to directly join India camp..and their mentor USA will be against that.

Smaller neighbours will avoid joining anyside fearing punishing strikes from more powerful opponent.

I think Arab countries will join Pakistan regardless of what Israel does, this has been proven in all the previous wars.

 

[Soham]

I don't see how Israel can be directly involved in an Indo-Pak-China conflict. The max. we might expect would be Air Force support, logisics, weapons etc.

 

[advaita]

We're talking past each other. I view the events through the lens of a military man.

Does military might alone decides who lives and who dies.

I was serious. Both Hitler and Stalin knew war was coming. Stalin tried to buy time by agreeing to divide Poland. Time just ran out.

Yes sir I agree, My point is that leaders do not decide the circumstances of war. It is the other way round. Calculations wont work in a fast paced scenario that Two front war will entail, only discipline to stick to principles will (remember 1971 discipline)

How about surrender?

After 1200 hundred years of yearning to be free. You can wish. And in the meantime lets have a referandum (spelling###)

France was knocked out early in the war.

The point still remains a two front war and INDIA'S SURVIVAL+NEW WORLD ORDER.

No. As I stated, the Chinese lost more men under arms than India had in uniform. That's only part of the price they paid. The untold number of famines during 10 years of war, Nanking, and Unit 731. India doesn't even compare to the price the Chinese paid.

I think i may agree after some reserch myself. But the fact remains that at the time we were not entirely interested in the WW2 and Caste system of warfare was geared only for Intra India troubles. Now its different. Now the limitation is not the desire or the ability but the logistics.

Granted, the British Indian Army won a hell of a lot more victories than the Chinese but the Chinese took a much bigger beating and still was not knocked out.

Sir, nobody doubts here the Chinese contribution. Indians wanted to prove only their view that theirs was no less significant. STILL THE TOPIC IS TWO FRONT WAR AND INDIAS ABILITY TO FIGHT IT. Winning may be out of the question but the possibility of Changing the world order still remains.

However, this is besides the point. The point here is that claiming better battle experience or being better battle hardened is just a p!ssing contest that ignores a hell of a lot of facts.

Fact of survival and Changing the world for the better. That in itself looks pretty lucrative to me.

Yeah, I'm sorry about that. Kesselring was a better general than Patton and Monte in that theatre.

Sorry i lack depth here but the rate at which do digress, something makes me feel your present comment could be just one more wrong on some previous wrong. With all due respect.

 

[xixihaha]

frankly speaking ,waht india did in ww2 just like Bulgaria or Romania did in German ARMY,india made great contribution with GB thats ALL !!

 

[Officer of Engineers]

duing that time ,india even is not a country,sorry its the truth i have to say ,so sorry to say that

A simple google would have told you that officially, it was called the Indian Empire.

 

[advaita]

Now I know why military guys should not be running the governments.
You keep fighting for the points entirely forgeting the war (REMEMBER THE TWO FRONT WAR - IS IT ALREADY RULED OUT)

 

[SATISH]

frankly speaking ,waht india did in ww2 just like Bulgaria or Romania did in German ARMY,india made great contribution with GB thats ALL !!

I even gave you a link from Wikipedia.

 

[A.V.]

mod warning:-- no trolling allowed please stick to the topic of the thread

 

[Officer of Engineers]

Does military might alone decides who lives and who dies.

No, but my point is that we're talking past each other and out of context with each other. Since we do not have a common starting point, then we're not making sense to each other.

Yes sir I agree, My point is that leaders do not decide the circumstances of war. It is the other way round. Calculations wont work in a fast paced scenario that Two front war will entail, only discipline to stick to principles will (remember 1971 discipline)

There is nothing fast paced about your position. Start worrying if either China or Pakistan massed 200,000 men on the borders and see if they can keep them there past 1 week. A single battalion of 1000 men or even an entire Group Army of 30,000 men is not going to threaten India's survival one bit.

After 1200 hundred years of yearning to be free. You can wish. And in the meantime lets have a referandum (spelling###)

Only human beings equate freedom and survival to be one and the same. If survival is all you're after, then surrender is a perfectly acceptable option. If it's freedom you want, then you will have to pay the price.

The point still remains a two front war and INDIA'S SURVIVAL+NEW WORLD ORDER.

I think i may agree after some reserch myself. But the fact remains that at the time we were not entirely interested in the WW2 and Caste system of warfare was geared only for Intra India troubles. Now its different. Now the limitation is not the desire or the ability but the logistics.

Sir, nobody doubts here the Chinese contribution. Indians wanted to prove only their view that theirs was no less significant. STILL THE TOPIC IS TWO FRONT WAR AND INDIAS ABILITY TO FIGHT IT. Winning may be out of the question but the possibility of Changing the world order still remains.

Fact of survival and Changing the world for the better. That in itself looks pretty lucrative to me.

Sorry i lack depth here but the rate at which do digress, something makes me feel your present comment could be just one more wrong on some previous wrong. With all due respect.

I was not addressing you on these points and therefore, your response again is out of context and talking past me.

 

[Ray]

Originally Posted by xixihaha View Post

duing that time ,india even is not a country,sorry its the truth i have to say ,so sorry to say that

Historically you are wrong.

It was a part of the British Empire - the Crown Jewel as they called it.

We are people who are true to our salt!

Are you?

Those who are not true to the salt are called Namak Haram.

The way you have run away from Mao indicates that you are all Namak Haram.

China is what Mao made it to be!!

On cannot be such Opportunists!

 

[Soham]

Would request you to refrain from SMS language. A bit of punctuation might not be a bad idea.

 

[Ray]

come on,cold war s gone forever,you still use old thought like mao.....,grow up ,man

I agree with you that Mao was a disgrace to mankind!

He was a skunk!

Happy?

 

[Ray]

It is so good to find that Chinese find their Great Helmsman, Mao to be the greatest idiot in humanity!

NO matter what are his fault, like Stalin, they have contributed to their country.

Mao kicked the opium addict Chinese to be men for a change!

 

[Soham]

Sir,

Do you see any major role of Israel in such a conflict ?

 

[advaita]

No, but my point is that we're talking past each other and out of context with each other. Since we do not have a common starting point, then we're not making sense to each other.

You have the option of engaging me on my grounds too. I was merely trying to do engage you with new and should i say entirely relevant points. Common starting point is not the point of war (is war a race under olympic rule) or do you want to say it is (in which case there may be no point discussing with you)

There is nothing fast paced about your position. Start worrying if either China or Pakistan massed 200,000 men on the borders and see if they can keep them there past 1 week. A single battalion of 1000 men or even an entire Group Army of 30,000 men is not going to threaten India's survival one bit.

I think we should not worry even about 200000 extra men on border. But Indians usually accept the position the past, present and future are all rolled into one and hence even a small engagement requires past present and future preparation and perspective.

You could be right though we may not be on the same plane. We seem to be on our respective planes. Ahh… You give me no satisfaction.

Only human being equate freedom and survival to be one and the same. If survival is all you're after, then surrender is a perfectly acceptable option. If it's freedom you want, then you will have to pay the price.

Ek bar to marna hi hai yaar. Dard watan waaste ho to better no.

I was not addressing you on these points and therefore, your response again is out of context and talking past me.

If we are walking past each other that means we are both besides each other's context. It does not mean I am out of context. In fact looks like you are out of context by trying to restrict all possibilities other then the ones that you are comfortable with. BTW how many times Indians didnt agree with western views. How many times Indians went on to do what they thought fit even after repeated western pressure (which was directed for western benefits most times entirely oblivious to 1/5th of humanity)

 

[advaita]

Sir,

Do you see any major role of Israel in such a conflict ?

Sorry to butt in.
Still request you to pls allow me. Israelis have there own survival issues. Obviously large majorities in the world may not recognise that in bilateral relations but that does not make them any less important. There survival issues will keeep them out of the conflict

ooooooor am i wrong.

 

[advaita]

It is so good to find that Chinese find their Great Helmsman, Mao to be the greatest idiot in humanity!

NO matter what are his fault, like Stalin, they have contributed to their country.

I respectfully beg to differ with your views here sir. Throwing off a stupid idea is the sign of vitality. It provides the assurance that Chinese may actually differ with CCP. Would not the winner be the person who identifies his mistakes fast and his opportunities even faster. Besides under Mao the Chinese were in nearly the same position as the Indians were during the last 1200 years.

Mao kicked the opium addict Chinese to be men for a change!

Thats about the only good thing i heard about him.