If India has to go for a two fronts war against China and Pakistan...

[SammyCheung]

The below reply is from Ravi , an insider from LRDE which will clear your doubts and most of us. I have edited only names.

Well you're right it clears me of all doubt.

He didn't say anything was made in India. In fact, he specifically ducked the question by saying "Dear freind, its best we do not talk of LRTR and ABM in public space because it is strategic program."

Obviously, India is working hard but not there yet.

 

[MMuthu]

Well you're right it clears me of all doubt.

He didn't say anything was made in India. In fact, he specifically ducked the question by saying "Dear freind, its best we do not talk of LRTR and ABM in public space because it is strategic program."

Obviously, India is working hard but not there yet.

China does not provide the end-to-end information on how to make ICBM to defence forum and no one discusses about it.

Does this mean China does not posses ICBM?

 

[Tamil]

China does not provide the end-to-end information on how to make ICBM to defence forum and no one discusses about it.

Does this mean China does not posses ICBM?

well said Muthu, they ban what ever against the govt., they speak about India...

 

[p2prada]

Well you're right it clears me of all doubt.

He didn't say anything was made in India. In fact, he specifically ducked the question by saying "Dear freind, its best we do not talk of LRTR and ABM in public space because it is strategic program."

Obviously, India is working hard but not there yet.

He also mentions it is meant for local manufacture. Goes on to show that the parts are indigenous and not being sourced from a foreign company.

 

[Sabir]

Please, India bought some Israel equipment for use against Scud-class rocket, then got a deal to manufacture some components (but many key components still need to be imported). This so called ABM is not effective against China's much more advanced SRBMs.

A nuclear war against China is hopeless for India. India doesn't have a good delivery vehicle (Agni-II is not even officially in service) and doesn't have fusion weapons. China's nuclear stockpile is several times larger than what western think tanks think it is.

Whatever I posted is from more credible sources than People's daily. You agree or dont agree its upon you....but China's ABM programme was a failure.

 

[deltacamelately]

Down and out for sometime...but this is interesting...

You told of a two pronged attack from Tibet and Pakistan by the Chinese forces. How will the Chinese keep open the supply routes, the spares and all. What use is Airborne troops when no proper air support can be given to it. The Pakistani front is a totally different kind of warfare and the Tibetian side is a different type of warfare. Do the Chinese have experience in fighting wars in totally different terrains and climate? It is easier said than done. Even the Chinese Generals think a war with India will result in stale mate and there will be no clear victor. If Pakistan also joins in then the war will be a total destroyer of the Asian economy as Americans and Europeans will grab this chance to break both China and India at the same time. Can you tell me how is China planning to resupply the 15th Airborne troops against some country with credible air defence network?

Satish,
The 15th Airborne Corps traces its lineage to an infantry army in the 2nd Field Army and made its name in the defense of Shangganling. Read it and you would appreciate its lineage. Talking about its effectiveness..
Read this...During the restructuring of the PLA in the 80s, the 15 Army was reduced to 3 brigades...In the 90s, the PLA's concept of People's War was replaced by the Limited High-Intensity WZC concept. This in turn resulted in a return to a divisional structure with an over all increase of around 25% in the 15 Army's strength. In 1985, most of the soldiers in the 15 Army were ordinary paratroopers trained for general supporting duties in a combined army campaign. Only a small percentage of them were specialized paratroopers. However, this percentage has now risen to about 43 percenr. The purpose of this increase in the % of specialized paratroopers was to make the 15th ABC into a combined arms force rather than just a mobile infantry force. Thus making it more capable of conducting independent operations in a limited but highly technological focused conflict...read "India".

As on datte, the 15th ABCas been elevated to the status of a strategic force. It is a departure from the PLA traditional airborne force concept. These changes allows the 15th ABC to acts as a principal force employed for independent campaign missions in future wars, involving foreign terrain. It is now accepted that the airborne troops should be used for pre-emptive attack on the enemy's key military targets in the rear area in order to paralyze or disrupt its preparation for an offensive. This kind of large-scale mission cannot be conducted without having a total control in the air. Also, a single-lift capability of 50K men is required for this type of missions. Currently, the PLAAF can only lift one division of 11K men with light tanks and self-propelled artilleries. But capabilities are in place and also growing.

All the while I ponder on wether there is such a situation in which Indian Army can move into Chinese territory and create the Battle. Why do we always assume Indians are on a defensive posture; or why should be battle fought in our homes, rather than in their homes,

Adu,

The InA does believe in fighting the war in enemy territory. It is very much part of our doctrine. If forced into a war, the aim of our offensive(s) would be to apply a sledgehammer blow to the enemy, the Army strategy would be both maneuver and attrition, combined in the desert as also in the plains. In the mountains, it would be a combination with some more ingredients. This strategy gives India two advantages:
In case of Pakistan, its military center of gravity, which are its 2 strike corps based at Multan and Kharian, would be destroyed in details, and land captured in the Thar would yield huge advantages on the negotiating table after the war.(Ofcourse, keeping its oft ranted low nuclear threshold aside).

In case of China, not withstanding the pressure likely to be created in the Silliguri corridor and the 15th ABCs possible joint action along with the PAs Armoured divisions accross the Jammu and specifically Shakargarh corridor, PLA assets accross the Tibetan passes and the KKH , stand vulnerable. Take a call on Chusul, Tawang and the Ridge accross it.

 

[Yusuf]

Welcome back Major. How is your health now?

 

[Ray]

Delta,

The Chinese can do nothing in the Siliguri corridor.

I won't mention more, but study the map and the deployment!

 

[Officer of Engineers]

Why Nuke tipped ABM. Becuase they can't hit an incoming BM like typical ABMs ?

That was the thinking at the time. ABM systems were and still are nuke tipped. The ABM Treaty allowed two sites, Moscow and North Dakota. Both used nuke tipped missiles until the US withdrew from the ABM Treaty. The Moscow ABM site still uses nuke tipped ABMs.

 

[Yusuf]

Nuke tipped ABM will cause harm in the defending country itself. So what's the logic behind it?

 

[natarajan]

great to see a major here
we all salute you
:bye:

 

[Officer of Engineers]

Nuke tipped ABM will cause harm in the defending country itself. So what's the logic behind it?

At the time, it was felt that no interceptor has the accuracy to hit an incoming RV. Therefore, you need the blast of a nuke to divert and to fry the electronics in the incoming warhead.

The US has a different set of defence priority than Moscow. The North Dakota site was to defend the silos while Moscow was intended for the survivial of the C3. The American concept made sense in that it was to protect the nuclear retallitory strike force. Moscow one? There's only so many EMP bursts you can have before your electricity is knocked out and without electricity, you're not going to run the air filters into your bunker.

In both cases, however, the technology was relatively simple and well within reach of all N5 powers. The reason why the Brits, French, and Chinese abandonned them (Canada had and abandonned nuke tipped BORMACs also) was simple. Both the Americans and the Soviets could overwhelm such any system these powers can employ 15 times over.

 

[Tamil]

I went to Bhutan many times, i think a war in that like mountain range is very tough compare to plains, And troops deployment is very hard to go. mountain warfare is not new to IA/IAF compare to PLA i think, their only way is to air drop. Ground movement is not maneuver to do.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

During the restructuring of the PLA in the 80s, the 15 Army was reduced to 3 brigades...

Nitpicking here, Major, it was 3 regiments, not 3 brigades ... and at one point, they were 2 battalion regiments instead of the usual 4 bns per regt.

Deng really took a heavy knife to the PLA budget.

Currently, the PLAAF can only lift one division of 11K men with light tanks and self-propelled artilleries. But capabilities are in place and also growing.

Major, right now, I don't think the 15ABC is capable of more than 10 simultaneous company level actions. The Sichian Earthquakes showed real limitations in trying battalion and regt level actions. Those companys that were dropped were limited to foot SAR and no engr equipment were dropped, leaving them with the good old fashion shovel.

 

[Yusuf]

Sir, deployment fir protection of missile silos is understandable, but over Moscow? What your enemy missile might wants to do will be done by your ABM!!

 

[Officer of Engineers]

Sir, deployment fir protection of missile silos is understandable, but over Moscow? What your enemy missile might wants to do will be done by your ABM!!

If and when the Moscow bunker opens up to the public, I will have an answer. The Russians are known for their brute force approach to engineering and scientific problems. At the minimum, I expect all their electronics to be grounded down the ying-yang and water to surround their entire complex. Oh, want to know why we gave up on neutron weapons? The Russians just put swimming pools over and around their bunkers.

As per your quote, Moscow, the city would be gone, but Moscow, the Command Centre, would be very much around ... if they have an answer for the EMP problem.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

The Chinese can do nothing in the Siliguri corridor.

Sir,

I'm not so sure. At the very least, resources and effort must be taken to kill the 15ABC and no matter how easy the battle from the Indian end, those forces needed to kill the 15ABC would not be used against the LZ and CD Military Regions.

 

[Yusuf]

So they didn't bother about the population but bothered more about the C3? What's the Chinese method?

 

[Officer of Engineers]

You mean the Chinese ABM system? They never went for deployment, so really cannot say. They've tested and prototyped the technology before political and military realities came into play.

As noted here and elsewhere, the nukes belong to the CMC, a civilian organization. They loathed to mate nukes to their delivery vehicles and thus handing over control to the military.

 

[hbogyt]

You mean the Chinese ABM system? They never went for deployment, so really cannot say. They've tested and prototyped the technology before political and military realities came into play.

As noted here and elsewhere, the nukes belong to the CMC, a civilian organization. They loathed to mate nukes to their delivery vehicles and thus handing over control to the military.

I've read what you require, sir.

What about the SLBMs. Are they also unmated? Are they controlled by the navy?