IAF's Jaguar/Shamsher Discussion thread.

nitesh

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the news is in the news_paper...
When you read the news in paper can't you google it and post the link?

I am closing the thread as this is speculative without any link to back it up.

Once you get the link for the news please PM it to any one mod team requesting for re opening the thread.
 

s_bman

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IAF looks to refurbish its fleet of Jaguars
Ajit K Dubey in Paris




June 16, 2009 18:14 IST

India has awarded a contract to US defence manufacturer Raytheon to integrate the Munitions Control Unit on the Jaguar fighters, to enable the aircraft to fire even the latest US-made missiles.

"The MCU is a system that enables integration of modern weapons on legacy aircraft such as the Jaguar with minimal modifications to aircraft wiring attached to the weapons without any changes on other systems," Raytheon Vice President for Missiles Systems Harry Schlute told PTI.

He added that after the integration of the MCU on the fleet of over 100 Jaguar aircraft in the IAF, pilots would be able to fire American-origin missiles such as the Paveway precision-guided missiles, AIM-9M Sidewinders and Mavericks.

Majority of the IAF missiles are of the Russian and the French origin. Schlute said that Raytheon had started the integration of the MCU on Jaguars in the second quarter of this year and plans to finish the work in less than 24 months. India has recently released a global tender for acquiring over 100 close combat range missiles for the Jaguars and Raytheon is one of the contenders in the contract.

The IAF is planning to carry out modifications and add more capabilities in the aircraft, which was inducted by India in the early 80s.

The Indian Air Force also plans to acquire combat air-to-air missiles for the Jaguar series aircraft it uses. The Request for Proposal for the acquisition of these close combat missiles has been sent to five manufacturers including the Raytheon Corporation, Israeli Raphael and European missile maker MBDA.

Raytheon has confirmed receiving a request and said that they could offer their AIM-9X and AMRAAM missiles to fulfill the order.

The IAF also plans to replace the engines on the Jaguars and have contacted Honeywell [Get Quote] and Rolls Royce for the requirement.
 

p2prada

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It has to have a radar on board no? I mean even the IAF Mig27s were fitted with a radar.
Only 12 maritime version Jaguar have radars for firing the Sea Eagle missile. The rest 100 odd don't have radars. The 12 initially carried the Agave radar. Upgraded to Elta 2032 radars(I think). The Jags are not getting the Elta-2052 AESA. It's useless for Jags.

Even the Mig-27s did not come with radars. India is working on a Russian pod mounted komar radar for the Mig-27. It's a variant of the Kopyo being used on the Mig-21Bison.
 

Singh

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^^ I can't vouch for its absolute credibility.. but Navbharat times is a widely read hindi newspaper ... you get the drift :)
 

Sridhar

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We have some confirmation from Rolls royce PR

Rolls-Royce engine test proves Adour MK 821 is fit for Indian Jaguar requirement

BY: Rolls-Royce PR

Rolls-Royce has successfully installed and tested the Adour Mk 821 engine in a Jaguar aircraft to prove its capability and suitability for the Indian Air Force’s Jaguar upgrade requirement.

The Mk 821 engine was installed into a Royal Air Force Jaguar for the ground test at Cosford, which was witnessed by a representative of the Indian Government. The installation went smoothly and required no airframe changes. During testing the Adour Mk 821 ran at full reheat and passed all performance targets set down by the Indian Air Force (IAF).

The test was conducted by Rolls-Royce Chief Test Pilot Phill O’Dell who commented: “As a former RAF Jaguar pilot myself I was impressed with the performance and functionality that the Mk 821 delivered. This had no adverse affect on the aircraft, highlighting the ease of the integration process and the compatibility of the engine with the airframe. This is no real surprise as they were literally made for each other.”

Martin Fausset, Managing Director of Rolls-Royce Defence Aerospace, said: “As the only engine certified for the Jaguar we were always confident that the Adour MK 821 could be successfully installed without any aircraft modification, even with the new technologies and enhanced performance, but this exercise has allowed us to demonstrate this high level of compatibility to the Indian Air Force.

“We believe that we have proved that the Adour MK 821 meets all Indian Air Force performance requirements at the lowest risk.”

The Mk 821 includes several technology inserts from other civil and military programmes and has been specifically designed for the Indian operational requirements, offering the twin benefits of greater thrust and lower life cycle costs.

The Adour engine has been developed by Rolls-Royce Turbomeca and the Mk 871 variant is currently in licensed production with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) for India’s new Hawk Advanced Jet Trainer. The Mk 871 shares a high degree of commonality with the new Mk 821 variant, offering potential benefits to both the Indian Air Force and HAL in support of India’s objective of self-reliance

IDRW.ORG Blog Archive Rolls-Royce engine test proves Adour MK 821 is fit for Indian Jaguar requirement
 

youngindian

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Panel to suggest powerful engine for Jaguar

:: Bharat-Rakshak.com - Indian Military News Headlines ::

Sunday, Jun 21, 2009

Honeywell offers F125N, a 43.8-kilo Newton thrust engine

Rolls Royce proposes its Adour Mk821 turbofan


BANGALORE: The Indian Air Force has set up a committee to indicate which new engine will be suited to power India’s frontline but overweight and underpowered Jaguar tactical light strike fighter.

The new, lighter, high performance engine will allow the IAF to improve the Jaguar’s mission performance, especially in medium and high level sortie profiles, undertake missions which are not possible with the existing engine, reduce pilot workload and cut maintenance cost.

Headed by K.V.L. Rao, an aero engine expert and former project director (propulsion systems) with the Aeronautical Development Agency, the committee has been tasked with choosing between proposals from Honeywell and Rolls Royce, both of which have replied to the request for proposal that was sent out as part of the programme for new engines for Jaguar.

The multi-billion dollar programme will see an acquisition of 280 engines, including spare engines for around 120 aircraft. The committee is expected to submit its findings before the end of June.

While Honeywell is offering its F125N, a 43.8 kilo Newton (kN) thrust engine, Rolls Royce, whose Adour Mk811 (32.5 kN) presently powers the IAF’s Jaguars, proposes its Adour Mk821 turbofan.

Of 1970s vintage, the Anglo-French designed Jaguar has been with the IAF since 1979, when the first of the two twin-engine fighter aircraft landed in India. But from the beginning, the IAF, which has over 100 Jaguars — acquired either directly from BAE Systems or built under licence by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited — has persistently complained of a lack of thrust from the aircraft’s Rolls Royce / Turbomeca manufactured Mk804E or Rolls Royce Mk811 engines, especially during critical hot weather and high altitude missions.

According to flight test engineers who were part of the team which oversaw the arrival of the first Jaguars from Britain, the high-hot weather the aircraft would have to operate in in India is the bugbear of the Rolls Royce engines. The IAF even asked Rolls Royce to tweak the engines to enhance its power, but post tweaking and a number of crashes, the IAF had the engines de-rated back to their original specifications.

According to Honeywell — which showcased F125N at the Aero India 2009 air show in February — its engine boasts “improved pilot safety, lower maintenance costs and outstanding reliability.” Officials from Honeywell claim that the modular construction of F125N, with its advanced, dual full authority digital engine control system, would save the IAF $1.5billion in life cycle costs as compared to its competitor. Variants of F125 fly the Aero Vodochody CzAF L-159 and the Boeing DARPA X-45A Unmanned Combat Aerial Vehicle.

Rolls Royce claims that Mk821 which is built on the proven technology of the Adour aero engines, “offers a low risk route to the twin benefits of greater thrust and lower life cycle costs.” Choosing the Mk821 also offers a high degree of commonality with the Mk871 variant which flies the IAF’s recent acquisition, the Hawk trainer.
 
J

John

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:: Bharat-Rakshak.com - Indian Military News Headlines ::

Sunday, Jun 21, 2009

Honeywell offers F125N, a 43.8-kilo Newton thrust engine

Rolls Royce proposes its Adour Mk821 turbofan


BANGALORE: The Indian Air Force has set up a committee to indicate which new engine will be suited to power India’s frontline but overweight and underpowered Jaguar tactical light strike fighter.

The new, lighter, high performance engine will allow the IAF to improve the Jaguar’s mission performance, especially in medium and high level sortie profiles, undertake missions which are not possible with the existing engine, reduce pilot workload and cut maintenance cost.

Headed by K.V.L. Rao, an aero engine expert and former project director (propulsion systems) with the Aeronautical Development Agency, the committee has been tasked with choosing between proposals from Honeywell and Rolls Royce, both of which have replied to the request for proposal that was sent out as part of the programme for new engines for Jaguar.

The multi-billion dollar programme will see an acquisition of 280 engines, including spare engines for around 120 aircraft. The committee is expected to submit its findings before the end of June.

While Honeywell is offering its F125N, a 43.8 kilo Newton (kN) thrust engine, Rolls Royce, whose Adour Mk811 (32.5 kN) presently powers the IAF’s Jaguars, proposes its Adour Mk821 turbofan.

Of 1970s vintage, the Anglo-French designed Jaguar has been with the IAF since 1979, when the first of the two twin-engine fighter aircraft landed in India. But from the beginning, the IAF, which has over 100 Jaguars — acquired either directly from BAE Systems or built under licence by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited — has persistently complained of a lack of thrust from the aircraft’s Rolls Royce / Turbomeca manufactured Mk804E or Rolls Royce Mk811 engines, especially during critical hot weather and high altitude missions.

According to flight test engineers who were part of the team which oversaw the arrival of the first Jaguars from Britain, the high-hot weather the aircraft would have to operate in in India is the bugbear of the Rolls Royce engines. The IAF even asked Rolls Royce to tweak the engines to enhance its power, but post tweaking and a number of crashes, the IAF had the engines de-rated back to their original specifications.

According to Honeywell — which showcased F125N at the Aero India 2009 air show in February — its engine boasts “improved pilot safety, lower maintenance costs and outstanding reliability.” Officials from Honeywell claim that the modular construction of F125N, with its advanced, dual full authority digital engine control system, would save the IAF $1.5billion in life cycle costs as compared to its competitor. Variants of F125 fly the Aero Vodochody CzAF L-159 and the Boeing DARPA X-45A Unmanned Combat Aerial Vehicle.

Rolls Royce claims that Mk821 which is built on the proven technology of the Adour aero engines, “offers a low risk route to the twin benefits of greater thrust and lower life cycle costs.” Choosing the Mk821 also offers a high degree of commonality with the Mk871 variant which flies the IAF’s recent acquisition, the Hawk trainer.
honeywell is the ideal option and might be cheaper as well.
 

youngindian

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Raytheon's Munitions Control Unit to be Integrated on Jaguar Aircraft

Raytheon's Munitions Control Unit to be Integrated on Jaguar Aircraft | India Defence



Dated 22/6/2009



Raytheon Company (NYSE: RTN) has started integrating its Munitions Control Unit on the Jaguar fighter aircraft.

The MCU is a plug-and-play system that enables integration of modern weapons on legacy aircraft with minimal modifications to aircraft wiring and no changes to the flight and stores management software.

"Once MCU is integrated on an aircraft, aircrews can employ the Joint Standoff Weapon, Maverick missile, Paveway precision-guided munition and AIM-9M Sidewinder air-to-air missile using the aircraft's existing weapon management system," said Harry Schulte, Raytheon Missile Systems vice president of Air Warfare Systems. "Warfighters can have this capability for a fraction of what it costs to integrate one weapon by traditional means."

Raytheon began integrating MCU on the Jaguar in the second quarter of 2009 and plans to finish the work in less than 24 months. MCU is currently integrated on the F-16 Fighting Falcon.
 

luckyy

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race between F125N and Adour Mk821 getting tighter

Honeywell opens new R&D centre in bangalore
The Hindu : Business : Honeywell opens new R&D centre

In India, Honeywell expects business to grow in all the four divisions. The company is collaborating with Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) to produce TPE331 aircraft engines in India, as well as pursuing a programme to re-engine the Indian Air Force’s strike aircraft with its F125IN turbofan engines. At present, Honeywell has 10,000 employees in India, compared with 1,000 in 2002. It has five manufacturing facilities in the country.
 

indian_sukhoi

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IAF is the largest operator of Jaguar Aircrafts. I think we have some 150 Jaguars, most of them manufactured by HAL.

Jaguars mostly use shot range missiles such as the Matra or the AIM-9 Sidewinder missiles.


presently it's only a ground stick aircraft which needs a escort .

thus this means after upgrade of jaguar it will be also can put into combat operation too .

that be great !

but IAF has over 110 Jaguars , why only 100 missiles ?
We wont be using Jaguars for Air-to-air missions rather for ground attacks. Those missiles are just meant to be for Self-protection just in case.

IAF brought Jaguars for requirement of deep penetration strikes. Sukhois and other will be using for the Sir-superiority role, making a way for Jaguars and Migs.

Right now those 100 missiles will be more like a replacement for Matra-II missile which jaguars already carry. If necessary we may can opted for fitting Astra in future

Well the Jaguar dosent even carry a Radar I guess. So how will these missiles be guided?
IAF is ain't that crazy to fly those aircrafts without a radar:blum3:

They fitted Israeli Elta radars and also they agreed to fit new ones. Besides, Jaguars are already has fitted with two over-wing Magic-II air-to-air missiles used for Self-defence.

Unlike other aircrafts jaguars are fitted with magic missile on over wing. Here is a pic of Jaguar with air-to-air missiles.
 

p2prada

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IAF is ain't that crazy to fly those aircrafts without a radar:blum3:
Only 12 of those jags will have EL/M-2032. The 12 are meant for maritime attack roles and they carry radars for firing the Sea eagle missile. Right now, they have the Agave radars and are supposedly not upgraded yet.

Heat seeking missiles don't need radars.
 

pppppppp

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If the jags have to be escorted with MKI's then, there is no need of a radar. They can always have a communication link. It only has to have a simple radar just to guide the missiles.
 

youngindian

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India Wants Air-to-Air Missiles for Its Jaguars

India Wants Air-to-Air Missiles for Its Jaguars - Defense News



Published: 26 Jun 2009 10:06
NEW DELHI - India is on a global hunt for air-to-air close-combat missiles along with helmet-mounted displays (HMDs) for the Air Force's British-made Jaguar ground-attack aircraft. Bids for the procurement, valued at more than $100 million, have been sent to MBDA of France, Rafael of Israel, Diehl Defense of Germany, Raytheon of the U.S. and Rosoboronexport of Russia.

The Air Force also is improving its Jaguars through the incorporation of stealth technology, an engine with higher thrust and advanced avionics. The Air Force wants to raise the combat capability of its Jaguar aircraft to be comparable with the Russian-made Su-30MKI multi-role aircraft in its fleet.Precision-guided bombs and anti-ship missiles will be acquired later, an Air Force official said.

As part of the upgrade, Thales is supplying autopilot systems for the Jaguar, and Rafael is supplying laser designator pods.

The Jaguars also will be equipped with Magic-2 and R-77 missiles. Communications and radio navigation systems are being built by state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL), and the mission computer is being provided by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).

HAL and DRDO also have teamed up to develop software for the upgrades. Elta Electronics Industries of Israel is supplying other radar equipment, including electronic countermeasures.

In the current bid, the Indian Air Force has a requirement for 384 fire-and-forget missiles, 130 HMDs and 226 launchers.

The Air Force requires that the missiles be able to scan the target area for hostile aircraft and then lock on after launch. The missile also should be capable of firing backwards, employ thrust vector technology and have an infrared imaging system.

The missile must have a range of more than 10 kilometers and a top speed of Mach 4.
 

palash_kol

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Where are we going to fit these long range missiles since it has very limited weapon stations and it is ground attack aircraft as well.

We have to increase no. of weapon stations from 7 to 9 to accomodate those missiles.
Anyways, can we increase no. of weapon stations of Jaguar???
 
J

John

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Derby can be ruled out since it has active radar seeker,

Python-5 has a good chance, Asraam can be ruled as well coz max. speed is mach 3.5 besides upgraded mirages will carry Asraam anyways. mica-IR is possible candidate, Iris-T can also be ruled out since max speed is mach 3. hence Mica-IR and Python-5. now i cant confirm the top speed of block 2 Aim-9x but it too is a possible candidate,

Python-5 will win this deal though.
 

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