IAF MTA RFI & RFP : News , Discussions & Updates.

[Azaad]

https://www.financialexpress.com/business/defence-the-resurrection-of-medium-transport-aircraft-mta-project-2991864/lite/

 

[Azaad]

What're your views on using the C-390 as a dual use aircraft for transportation by the IAF & as a civilian airliner for our RTA ( Regional Transporter Aircraft ) program which was envisaged as a 90 seater ? How does it fair in terms of fuel efficiency & other parameters with competition from Boeing or Airbus or any other competitor in this category ?

@MiG-29SMT

 

[Blademaster]

What're your views on using the C-390 as a dual use aircraft for transportation by the IAF & as a civilian airliner for our RTA ( Regional Transporter Aircraft ) program which was envisaged as a 90 seater ? How does it fair in terms of fuel efficiency & other parameters with competition from Boeing or Airbus or any other competitor in this category ?

@MiG-29SMT

A comparison between the C-130 hercules, C-390, Japanese C-2, and Airbus 400M would be nice.

 

[Azaad]

A comparison between the C-130 hercules, C-390, Japanese C-2, and Airbus 400M would be nice.

Check out Rohit Vats on Twitter. He'd made the comparison a few months ago .

 

[AnantS]

Mungeri Laal Ke haseen sapne.. This MTA has been in the making & Talks since Y2K. Govt is NOT serious on this space still. These are just balloons which are nice to be released every half decade.

 

[Blademaster]

Check out Rohit Vats on Twitter. He'd made the comparison a few months ago .

Too lazy to search for him. Pls do the needful.

 

[FireStar]

 

[Azaad]

Too lazy to search for him. Pls do the needful.

.




Follow this thread.

 

[Blademaster]

I would go for C-390 because it is priced the same as C-130J but can carry more cargo in longer range than C-130J.

I would just order another 12 of C-130J and order 50-60 C-390 with rights of manufacturing in India.

And order 24-28 of A400M to replace the IL-76s if they are due to be retired.

Edit: I prefer A400M over C-2 because A400M has rough landing capability while C-2 doesn't. And I think A400M has a better take off capability in high altitude areas than C-2 planes.

 

[MiG-29SMT]

What're your views on using the C-390 as a dual use aircraft for transportation by the IAF & as a civilian airliner for our RTA ( Regional Transporter Aircraft ) program which was envisaged as a 90 seater ? How does it fair in terms of fuel efficiency & other parameters with competition from Boeing or Airbus or any other competitor in this category ?

@MiG-29SMT

I have no Idea as a transporter, but as a cargo aircraft it is chosen by some air forcers so must be a good aircraft

 

[Tshering22]

I would go for C-390 because it is priced the same as C-130J but can carry more cargo in longer range than C-130J.

I would just order another 12 of C-130J and order 50-60 C-390 with rights of manufacturing in India.

And order 24-28 of A400M to replace the IL-76s if they are due to be retired.

Edit: I prefer A400M over C-2 because A400M has rough landing capability while C-2 doesn't. And I think A400M has a better take off capability in high altitude areas than planes.

Buying airplanes is not like buying potatoes in the market. In this case, IAF has 4 classes of transporter fleet:

1. Ultralight class: Dornier Do-228, continuing licensed production
2. Light class: An-32 and Avro 748, being replaced by Airbus C-295
3. Medium class: 11 C-130J, but need more here, which is ideally what C-390 would do
4. Heavy class: C-17s and Il-76, with Il-76 only r

3 & 4 need a replacement class, but given the commitment required, we need these to be made in India locally.

For 3:

The ONLY company willing to readily transfer production & make us a strategic partner, in this case, is Embraer. They are open to moving production rights for local manufacturing completely in India. Also, given that we are engaging heavily with Brazil in defence and space now (plus BRICS), it makes sense to work with the Brazilians.

For 4:
A400M is more or less under German control unlike other Airbus projects & their export control laws are weird. We will be a Tiered partner in an already mature alliance at best or be asked to stay as a logistics partner.

C-17 has stopped & even if by some miracle the US transferred its tech, HAL will not be able to get it off the ground in this century without a partner.

That leaves 3 other options:

OPTION 1: Japan's Kawasaki C-2. Japan has been trying to sell it to the UAE but somehow the Emiratis didn't make a commitment yet. Given our ties with Japan, we could ask to be production partners with a large order of 30-50 aircraft. But Japan's order book is small, & unit costs are quite high.

OPTION 2: The unfinished project of Ukraine AN-70. This is a potent platform which got left halfway due to hostilities with Russia. The aircraft was in the testing phase and we can actually buy off the design rights. But if we do that, Russia would be miffed as it would mean that billions of $$ go to Ukraine.

OPTION 3: Modiji meets Lula in BRICS summit and takes him to a corner saying:

"Dekh bhai, Hamein ek military-strategic sahyogi chahiye bade viman banane ke liye; sasta, tagda, aur aadhunik.
I will ask HAL to form a JV with your Embraer, under which I will order 80 C-390s to be made locally. Then my design division will work with your design division to make a completely new heavy-class transporter jet the size of A400M or C-17.
Bol, kya kehta hai? Karega?"

Whatever the government chooses, should be done without IAF's consent beyond the initial ASQR because IAF is known to fuck up all airplane partnership deals. It has to be a G2G strategic partnership.

 

[Azaad]

 

[Tshering22]

I would go for C-390 because it is priced the same as C-130J but can carry more cargo in longer range than C-130J.

I would just order another 12 of C-130J and order 50-60 C-390 with rights of manufacturing in India.

And order 24-28 of A400M to replace the IL-76s if they are due to be retired.

Edit: I prefer A400M over C-2 because A400M has rough landing capability while C-2 doesn't. And I think the A400M has a better take-off capability in high-altitude areas than C-2 planes.

Brazil wants us to become a partner in the program and have equal rights to make it here. Even 50 of these jets would make us the biggest users (bigger than Brazil), strengthen the whole BRICS cooperation angle, and also give us an excuse to sell our weapons to the Brazilians.

Do note that the Brazilian Army chief is currently in India and has shown a lot of interest in Indian weapons.

Mutually-beneficial defence deals are a pretty common thing in Brazil.

 

[standard snowball]

Brazil wants us to become a partner in the program and have equal rights to make it here. Even 50 of these jets would make us the biggest users (bigger than Brazil), strengthen the whole BRICS cooperation angle, and also give us an excuse to sell our weapons to the Brazilians.

Do note that the Brazilian Army chief is currently in India and has shown a lot of interest in Indian weapons.

Mutually-beneficial defence deals are a pretty common thing in Brazil.

What can we even sell them

 

[Azaad]

What can we even sell them

LCH , LUH , ATAGS , Pinaka , Prahaar , Akash , etc the list is endless. What do you think the Brazilian Army chief was here for ? While he was busy lobbying for the C-390 , he must've been told politely to reciprocate the gesture by buying some of our products with the caveat that if there was no need to create such a need.

Otherwise why would we consider EMBRAER ? Besides EMBRAER needs this deal most desperately given their dire financial condition. I've always been an advocate of getting a stake in it by first creating a PPP between HAL & another Indian company preferably Mahindra Aerospace in a JV with EMBRAER before gradually moving ahead.

 

[Blademaster]

What can we even sell them

Brahmos, frigates, LCAs, LCHs, ALHs, ATAGS, etc

 

[Azaad]

 

[Corvus Splendens]

If they do revise it to around 35 tons, the Atlas is coming.

 

[johnj]

MTA program was stated by UPA gov when IAF asked more C130J aircraft. For GoI, C30J is a extremely expensive aircraft, costing 1000 INR

and started MTA JV with Russia. The important features of MTA are - can land and take off from short runways, commonality between il76, low unit cost, export.
IAF AWACS and air tankers were based on il76 and IAF operate additional 17 cargo versions. Its a good deal, but IAF wanted EU engine, and poor/unsatisfied quality/support of HAL products, IAF cancelled MTA deal.
But UPA given green light to manufacture c295 by Tata.
Since MTA JV is dead, NDA signed the deal of c295, IAF now considering importing tech to build/assemble MTA locally
The transport aircraft with low cost [unit + production] having a advantage in this tender.

 

[Blademaster]

If they do revise it to around 35 tons, the Atlas is coming.

I wish but Atlas is just too expensive. It will be either KC-390 or C-130J. I would go for IL-76 new version if we can produce it locally.