IAF Mirage 2000

[drkrn]

Really? I dont see why India decided to buy Rafael?

Mirage 2000 has a speed of Mach 2.2, range 1550 km and it costs only 23 Million US Dollar.

Rafael costs 82.3 Million US dollar, it has maximum speed of only 1.8 Mach, it is not as fast as even MiG 21.

I cant understand why do you buy Rafael? We already had MiG 29's as Fighter, Jaguar as fighter bomber, Su 30MKI as air superiority fighter, Mirage 2000 is an excellent plane, capable both as fighter bomber and fighter, LCA Tejas as attack plane do we really need Rafael at all?:why:

Instead of buying costly Rafael we should buy Mirage 2000 then we can achieve better results at low cost.

I think it is like US's problem of F 22 or F 15, F 22's only advantage is it's stealth technology. Other wise nothing.

We already had licence to produce Mirage 2000, transfer of Rafael will take long time.
@Ray, @ersakthivel, @p2prada

assembly lines of mirage afaik are discontinued.thats the reason why modernisation of mirages's is costly.

afaik all latest 4th generation fighter jets are designed in a way that speed is not much of concern.the same was said by designer of lca which had a mach 1.6(top speed)

rafale is miles ahead of mirage wrt stealth,latest gen armaments, radars,electronic countermeasures.
even dassault moved away from euro consortium of typhoon saying it want to design a multi role fighter jet.india selected it in Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) competition

mirage is definitely a good bet.no doubt.but what i mean to say is its better to buy a new generation jet which has probability life time upgrades.the mirage upgrade gave it additional 10-15 year lifespan.after 15 years its role is reduced significantly which is not the case with rafale.

jaguar is a deep strike aircraft.

F22 is atleast one gen ahead of every other operational jet.no comparision to it with others.

i never knew we license produced mirages in india.i always thought they are brought from france.

 

[AVERAGE INDIAN]

I cant understand why do you buy Rafael? We already had MiG 29's as Fighter, Jaguar as fighter bomber, Su 30MKI as air superiority fighter, Mirage 2000 is an excellent plane, capable both as fighter bomber and fighter, LCA Tejas as attack plane do we really need Rafael at all?:why:
@Ray, @ersakthivel, @p2prada

love the question eagerly waiting for answers from gurus

 

[p2prada]

Mirage 2000 has a speed of Mach 2.2, range 1550 km and it costs only 23 Million US Dollar.

If production starts, it may end up being more expensive than Rafale.

Rafael costs 82.3 Million US dollar, it has maximum speed of only 1.8 Mach, it is not as fast as even MiG 21.

Speed isn't important for the kind of role we are expecting Rafales to fill. Compare with Mig-27, the aircraft it is supposed to replace.

I cant understand why do you buy Rafael? We already had MiG 29's as Fighter, Jaguar as fighter bomber, Su 30MKI as air superiority fighter, Mirage 2000 is an excellent plane, capable both as fighter bomber and fighter, LCA Tejas as attack plane do we really need Rafael at all?:why:

Mig-29s fill the air superiority and now strike role. Mirage-2000 fill air superiority, recce, strike and nuclear strike roles. Jaguar handles strike, CAS and DPS roles.

LCA is not ready, but not the best aircraft to replace Mig-27s. It is first and foremost a Mig-21 replacement. We still have plenty of those.

Rafale can handle air superiority, anti-shipping, recce, strike, DPS, CAS, nuclear strike and is many times better than all the other aircraft mentioned above in all of the roles. It can conduct some of these roles simultaneously within the parameters of the mission. In some special cases, Rafale can accomplish two very different objectives at the very same time, like attacking a ground control station and an AWACS at once, that's why it is also called omnirole.

MKI fills air superiority, recce, close air support, strike and deep strike role, stand off EW role, not to mention anti-shipping role, possibly even BMD/CMD roles with the appropriate upgrades.

I think it is like US's problem of F 22 or F 15, F 22's only advantage is it's stealth technology. Other wise nothing.

Not at all. Please read up the definition of 5th gen by LM and see what the F-22 can do compared to F-15. To tell you the truth, your stand is more valid if you consider we will be getting FGFA "soon" instead. But we don't really have a "proven" advanced strike fighter, and Rafale is the key for such a requirement. That's why such a requirement came up in the first place. It was to infuse much needed technology into the IAF along with plugging holes in our squadron strength.

In 15 years we will have a pressing need to replace our Jaguars and a more expensive and more advanced replacement than Rafale will come up. The same as it is for our Mig-27s today.

We already had licence to produce Mirage 2000, transfer of Rafael will take long time.

We don't have any license for production of Mirage-2000. It was only offered outside the MRCA deal.

Mirage will only fill our most immediate goals, but twenty years down the line it will be hopelessly outclassed and with very little upgrade possibility. It makes better sense to spend a bit more and get more relevant capability to last beyond 2030. So Rafale is our best buy since we can actually afford it.

 

[ersakthivel]

LCA mk-2 will come very close to RAFALE in most specs with just a few shortcoming like weapon load and a bit lesser range. LCA mk-2 will have the same sized RAFALE radar, same long range BVRs, and a better top speed of mach-2 with the same TWR ratio of RAFALE and even better lower wing loading than the RAFALE.

it will come at practically a third of RAFALE costs.

 

[cobra commando]

First Upgraded IAF Mirage 2000

Livefist: First Upgraded IAF Mirage 2000!

 

[rvjpheonix]

LCA mk-2 will come very close to RAFALE in most specs with just a few shortcoming like weapon load and a bit lesser range. LCA mk-2 will have the same sized RAFALE radar, same long range BVRs, and a better top speed of mach-2 with the same TWR ratio of RAFALE and even better lower wing loading than the RAFALE.

it will come at practically a third of RAFALE costs.

Radar was never rafale's forte. Its passive sensor suite though is truly good. The question is will the mk2 have similar passive detection and networking capabilities?

 

[AVERAGE INDIAN]

High cost of Mirage-2000 upgrade raises eyebrows

NEW DELHI: Should India have simply gone in for new fighters rather than upgrading its 51 Mirage-2000s at an exorbitant cost? This question came to the fore once again on Monday with defence minister AK Antony telling Parliament that the upgrade cost for each jet was Rs 167 crore.

This when the last lot of the French-origin Mirage-2000s - their induction began in the mid-1980s - contracted by India in 2000 cost just Rs 133 crore apiece. However, Antony, in a written reply to Lok Sabha, said, "Applying an escalation of 3.5% per annum as per the pricing policy review committee, to the contracted cost of the year 2000, it works out to be Rs 195 crore at 2011 levels. Thus, the upgrade has been undertaken at 85% of the aircraft's escalated cost."


However, the Rs 167-crore figure does not give the full picture. The overall upgrade programme of the Mirage-2000s is pegged at Rs 17,547 crore, with the first two fighters being upgraded in France and the rest (49) by Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) under transfer of technology (ToT). If this figure is taken into account, then each Mirage upgrade will cost Rs 344 crore.

India has inked two separate contracts in the upgrade programme, which kicked off last year with the help of French companies Dassault Aviation (aircraft manufacturer) and Thales (weapons systems integrator).

In July 2011, the upgrade programme was finalized at Rs 10,947 crore, which included both the French and HAL work-shares. Then, early last year, the second contract worth around Rs 6,600 crore for 490 advanced fire-and-forget MICA (interception and aerial combat missiles) systems to arm the fighters was finalized with French armament major MBDA. The overall upgrade package may even cross the Rs 20,000 crore-mark over the decade it will take to complete it, as earlier reported by TOI.

However, both MoD and IAF - down to just 34 fighter squadrons when over 44 are required to deter both Pakistan and China - maintain the upgrade will ensure the multi-role Mirages become "virtually new fighters" that will "remain current and potent" for over two decades more.

"Mirages have performed superbly since induction. IAF is going in for new acquisitions, which take a long time in our circumstances, as well as upgrades to retain its combat readiness," said an official.

Holding major upgrade decisions are "suitably negotiated" in a competitive environment, Antony admitted, "However, this (Mirage) upgrade programme also includes fitment of advanced multi-mode target radar, reconfigured glass cockpit and advance avionics, state-of-the-art electronic warfare system and capability to launch advanced missiles."

Even as it progressively inducts 272 Sukhoi-30MKIs contracted for Rs 55,717 crore, IAF is also undertaking upgrade of its 63 MiG-29s at a cost of $964 million deal inked with Russia in March, 2008.

The force is also heavily banking upon the almost $20 billion MMRCA (medium multi-role combat aircraft) project to acquire 126 French Rafale fighters from Dassault, the final commercial negotiations for which are now in progress.

High cost of Mirage-2000 upgrade raises eyebrows - Times Of India

 

[ersakthivel]

What is the longest range BVR in the so called upgrade package? What is the radar detection rang of new radar?

 

[ersakthivel]

Radar was never rafale's forte. Its passive sensor suite though is truly good. The question is will the mk2 have similar passive detection and networking capabilities?

Passive sensors don't function under all conditions , they require some specified atmospheric condition to operate, SO we can not rely on passive sensor alone.

 

[Pandora]

High cost of Mirage-2000 upgrade raises eyebrows

NEW DELHI: Should India have simply gone in for new fighters rather than upgrading its 51 Mirage-2000s at an exorbitant cost? This question came to the fore once again on Monday with defence minister AK Antony telling Parliament that the upgrade cost for each jet was Rs 167 crore.

This when the last lot of the French-origin Mirage-2000s - their induction began in the mid-1980s - contracted by India in 2000 cost just Rs 133 crore apiece. However, Antony, in a written reply to Lok Sabha, said, "Applying an escalation of 3.5% per annum as per the pricing policy review committee, to the contracted cost of the year 2000, it works out to be Rs 195 crore at 2011 levels. Thus, the upgrade has been undertaken at 85% of the aircraft's escalated cost."


However, the Rs 167-crore figure does not give the full picture. The overall upgrade programme of the Mirage-2000s is pegged at Rs 17,547 crore, with the first two fighters being upgraded in France and the rest (49) by Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) under transfer of technology (ToT). If this figure is taken into account, then each Mirage upgrade will cost Rs 344 crore.

India has inked two separate contracts in the upgrade programme, which kicked off last year with the help of French companies Dassault Aviation (aircraft manufacturer) and Thales (weapons systems integrator).

In July 2011, the upgrade programme was finalized at Rs 10,947 crore, which included both the French and HAL work-shares. Then, early last year, the second contract worth around Rs 6,600 crore for 490 advanced fire-and-forget MICA (interception and aerial combat missiles) systems to arm the fighters was finalized with French armament major MBDA. The overall upgrade package may even cross the Rs 20,000 crore-mark over the decade it will take to complete it, as earlier reported by TOI.

However, both MoD and IAF - down to just 34 fighter squadrons when over 44 are required to deter both Pakistan and China - maintain the upgrade will ensure the multi-role Mirages become "virtually new fighters" that will "remain current and potent" for over two decades more.

"Mirages have performed superbly since induction. IAF is going in for new acquisitions, which take a long time in our circumstances, as well as upgrades to retain its combat readiness," said an official.

Holding major upgrade decisions are "suitably negotiated" in a competitive environment, Antony admitted, "However, this (Mirage) upgrade programme also includes fitment of advanced multi-mode target radar, reconfigured glass cockpit and advance avionics, state-of-the-art electronic warfare system and capability to launch advanced missiles."

Even as it progressively inducts 272 Sukhoi-30MKIs contracted for Rs 55,717 crore, IAF is also undertaking upgrade of its 63 MiG-29s at a cost of $964 million deal inked with Russia in March, 2008.

The force is also heavily banking upon the almost $20 billion MMRCA (medium multi-role combat aircraft) project to acquire 126 French Rafale fighters from Dassault, the final commercial negotiations for which are now in progress.

High cost of Mirage-2000 upgrade raises eyebrows - Times Of India

Miya date to check kar lo....20Mar2013

 

[AVERAGE INDIAN]

Miya date to check kar lo....20Mar2013

not about date dude just want to raise it again since i feel fishy about this upgrade deal just searching for more info will post accordingly :thumb:

 

[cobra commando]

First Upgraded IAF Mirage 2000

Livefist: First Upgraded IAF Mirage 2000!

Pictures of India's first upgraded Mirage 2000, now designated Mirage 2000I/TI (single and twin seat respectively).

 

[SajeevJino]

The Colombian government has received an offer to acquire French Dassault Aviation Mirage 2000-5F multirole aircraft, which would come from the French Air Force's inventory. The offer, revealed by industrial sources, includes a total of eighteen units for approximately $500 million. Of this, $350 million are for the cost of eighteen aircraft, and the remaining $150 million for logistics package.

During those trials, the Colombian crews brought the aircraft to reach speeds exceeding Mach 2 and conducted identification and target designation exercises, thanks to the synthetic aperture radar of the Mirage 2000-5F, which allowed them to engage nearly three times the number of targets than those achieved in similar tests carried out by the same Colombian pilots on Lockheed Martin F16 C / D Fighting Falcon fighter jets.

Colombia likely to acquire 18 Mirage 2000-5F multirole fighter aircraft from French Air Force

Looks like a Good deal for Colombians $500 millions for 18 Aircraft along with Support package
@halloweene

 

[halloweene]

Well french air force denied selling any of its 5-F. And 5-F do not have sar capabilities...
So i guess either wrong report of the author is talking about Greek 5F or UAE -9

 

[cobra commando]

Dassault Aviation: The first two Indian Mirage 2000 I/TI delivered to Indian Authorities Paris Stock Exchange:AM

 

[cobra commando]

Nice gallery of Mirage 2000 I/TI pics (low-res):

Photo Gallery – Dassault Aviation Photo Library

 

[cobra commando]

[tweet]580728682433495041[/tweet]

 

[cobra commando]

The first two Indian Mirage 2000 I/TI delivered to Indian Authorities - Dassault Aviation

The acceptance ceremony of the first two Indian Air Force Mirage 2000 I/TI was held at Istres, Dassault Aviation's Flight Test Centre.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J_xcQtPetdM

 

[ezsasa]

Is there a list of upgrades that have been done ?

 

[Punya Pratap]

I wonder what the French will do if the Rafale deal is cancelled... I bet my two paisa's that the Mirage upgrade shall take forever and maybe then IAF would have learnt its lessons!! IAF raised concerns when the Russians downgraded India's share in the FGFA but dint even let out a whimper when Snecma coolly walked out of the Kaveri !! In the first place the JV was a sham and in the second place IAF was never interested in indignation so they never objected!!

It was plain as daylight that French would never stick to the RFP when they never stuck to their promise of co-developing the K10!