IAF Mirage 2000

[MonaLazy]

How many Tejas can we buy for 27 mil Euros?

Cost of ONE LCA Tejas Mk1A:
before tax ₹315cr = $43M = €36.51M
with tax ₹378cr = $51M = €43.3M

At Rs 315 crore ($43 million) per fighter, the Tejas Mark 1A would be a viable competitor in the international market for light fighters. It would be less so if taxes took up its cost to Rs 378 crore ($51 million).

At $43 mn each, Hindustan Aeronautics' Tejas Mark 1A seeks export market

At Rs 315 crore ($43 million) per fighter, the Tejas Mark 1A would be a viable competitor in the international market for light fighters. It would be less so if taxes took up its cost to Rs 385 crore

www.business-standard.com

Cost of 24 second-hand Mirage 2000:
₹234cr = $31.81M = €27M

IAF to bolster fighter fleet with 24 second-hand Mirages

IAF’s 35-year old Mirage fleet, which performed exceptionally during the 2019 Balakot operation, is undergoing a mid-life upgrade, the people said – with the trigger for the acquisition of the second-hand aircraft being the immediate need for 300 critical spares.

www.hindustantimes.com

You can't buy even ONE brand new Tejas Mk1A (or even a Mk1 trainer) for the price of all of the 24 old Mirages combined, even if you waive off 100% tax on the deal !!

Good deal, especially as these are more for upkeep of current fleet than to add to flying numbers.

 

[Bleh]

Cost of ONE LCA Tejas Mk1A:
before tax ₹315cr = $43M = €36.51M
with tax ₹378cr = $51M = €43.3M

At $43 mn each, Hindustan Aeronautics' Tejas Mark 1A seeks export market

At Rs 315 crore ($43 million) per fighter, the Tejas Mark 1A would be a viable competitor in the international market for light fighters. It would be less so if taxes took up its cost to Rs 385 crore

www.business-standard.com

Cost of 24 second-hand Mirage 2000:
₹234cr = $31.81M = €27M

IAF to bolster fighter fleet with 24 second-hand Mirages

IAF’s 35-year old Mirage fleet, which performed exceptionally during the 2019 Balakot operation, is undergoing a mid-life upgrade, the people said – with the trigger for the acquisition of the second-hand aircraft being the immediate need for 300 critical spares.

www.hindustantimes.com

You can't buy even ONE brand new Tejas Mk1A (or even a Mk1 trainer) for the price of all of the 24 old Mirages combined, even if you waive off 100% tax on the deal !!

Good deal, especially as these are more for upkeep of current fleet than to add to flying numbers.

GREAT deal... With about ₹400crores total expenditure on each, usable for 15-20 years.

Good news for MWF.. It'll be replacing them all (unlike if they were new Rafales).

 

[Covfefe]

Any idea if the usable lot within these planes will be upgraded to the level that IAF already uses its Mirages? Can HAL do it? Because the last upgrade program was a fricking scam at 40 million USD per unit.

 

[MonaLazy]

₹400crores total expenditure on each

Source please.

At best only 8 or so are flight worthy, rest will be scavenged to keep the current platforms flying. Still don't see how that is a bad deal. There is no other viable option as M2K spares become scarce globally.

Only if this turns into an INS Vikramaditya like fiasco will I change my opinion.

 

[Bleh]

Source please.

At best only 8 or so are flight worthy, rest will be scavenged to keep the current platforms flying. Still don't see how that is a bad deal. There is no other viable option as M2K spares become scarce globally.

Only if this turns into an INS Vikramaditya like fiasco will I change my opinion.

Estimate hy re... Compared to how much money went into upgrading each of our Mirage-2000s. These are surpluses from France that they can't afford to upgrade. Thodi na MLUed models dega hume free me.

I am not saying this is a bad deal, I'm saying that we originally had 60 Mirage-2000s. So these 8-10 are to bring the number back up & the rest are top be scavenged.

Any idea if the usable lot within these planes will be upgraded to the level that IAF already uses its Mirages? Can HAL do it? Because the last upgrade program was a fricking scam at 40 million USD per unit.

Utna hi lagega.. Everything but the engine is to be changed. That's what makes up the cost, nahi to Mig-21 jyse price hota platform ki.

 

[Tactical Doge]

Meanwhile Haldi being Haldi

 

[Wisemarko]

This is called junkyard sale. Useful for cannibalizing parts to keep rest of the fleet airworthy. French are notorious for not providing long term support.

Meanwhile, F-15 and F-16 of same generation have upgrade packages and full OEM support for at least 2030 and likely beyond.

 

[Foxbat]

This is called junkyard sale. Useful for cannibalizing parts to keep rest of the fleet airworthy. French are notorious for not providing long term support.

Meanwhile, F-15 and F-16 of same generation have upgrade packages and full OEM support for at least 2030 and likely beyond.

Maybe it has something to do with economies of scale? 4,600 F-16s were built and its still expected to be in production till 2026. Only 600 Mirage 2000s were made and production stopped in 2007. I guess the Mirage 2000-5 doesn't count as an upgrade package?

If F-16 OEM support is expected till 2030 then the last batch made in 2026 will only have support for 4 years !
Also the US is notorious of withdrawing OEM support depending on political conditions leaving the buyer to scavenge the black market for parts, Iranian F-14s, F-4, F-5, Venezuela's F-16s and Pakistan's F-16s are prime examples.

"Useful for cannibalizing parts to keep rest of the fleet airworthy." Thats how Iran, Pakistan and Venezuela have been able to keep some of their American made fleet airworthy.

 

[Wisemarko]

If F-16 OEM support is expected till 2030 then the last batch made in 2026 will only have support for 4 years !

That pertains to early F-16A blocks, last of which was made in 1990s. Subsequent versions are not only supported but latest versions actively built at a rate greater than that of newer fighters such as Gripen/Rafale/ Eurofighter. All older versions have upgrade packages to bring them up to block 50/52 standards and even 70/72 standard. F-16 could be produced for another decade.

Lockheed Martin to upgrade avionics and electronic systems on Taiwan's legacy fleet of F-16A/B jet fighters

At the core of F-16V avionics is an AESA radar; a modern COTS avionics subsystem; large-format display; and a high-volume high-speed databus.

www.militaryaerospace.com

Also the US is notorious of withdrawing OEM support depending on political conditions leaving the buyer to scavenge the black market for parts..

Yes, US has withdrawn support for bogus regimes like Iran and Venezuela. If you consider India in the league of Iran and Venezuela, I have nothing to say.

Thats how Iran, Pakistan and Venezuela have been able to keep some of their American made fleet airworthy.

May be it’s time to open up your mind and not compare India with these rogue nations. You are only as big as you can imagine yourself. How we behave with Iran is not a good barometer for how we will behave with normal countries!

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

That pertains to early F-16A blocks, last of which was made in 1990s. Subsequent versions are not only supported but latest versions actively built at a rate greater than that of newer fighters such as Gripen/Rafale/ Eurofighter. All older versions have upgrade packages to bring them up to block 50/52 standards and even 70/72 standard.

Lockheed Martin to upgrade avionics and electronic systems on Taiwan's legacy fleet of F-16A/B jet fighters

At the core of F-16V avionics is an AESA radar; a modern COTS avionics subsystem; large-format display; and a high-volume high-speed databus.

www.militaryaerospace.com

Yes, US has withdrawn support for bogus regimes like Iran and Venezuela. If you consider India in the league of Iran and Venezuela, I have nothing to say.



May be it’s time to open up your mind and not compare India with these rogue nations. You are only as big as you can imagine yourself. How we behave with Iran is not a good barometer for how we will behave with normal countries!

Well iran is a normal country , just saying .

 

[Wisemarko]

Well iran is a normal country , just saying .

I won’t consider any government stoning people to death for social “crime” a normal country. Hopefully one day Iranians will overthrow the mullahs and bring their country to its former glory.

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

I won’t consider any government stoning people to death for social “crime” a normal country.

Well they haven't stoned people for a long time but you are right it gets difficult to defend them

 

[mist_consecutive]

We might be converting around a squadron strength of M2000 (~12) into M2000 "I" standards by upgrading them with Thompson-CSF RDY radar, EW suite, and integrating MICA missiles.

Rest we can keep for spare parts. This is a pretty good deal. One squadron more of 4th Gen. M2000I will greatly boost our combat capabilities.

 

[Vayuputra]

We might be converting around a squadron strength of M2000 (~12) into M2000 "I" standards by upgrading them with Thompson-CSF RDY radar, EW suite, and integrating MICA missiles.

Rest we can keep for spare parts. This is a pretty good deal. One squadron more of 4th Gen. M2000I will greatly boost our combat capabilities.

Australian airforce have also retired 90 f-18s, would have been best if we have had bought them as well,we could refurbish them to be air worthy for training purpose.

 

[Foxbat]

Yes, US has withdrawn support for bogus regimes like Iran and Venezuela. If you consider India in the league of Iran and Venezuela, I have nothing to say.
May be it’s time to open up your mind and not compare India with these rogue nations. You are only as big as you can imagine yourself. How we behave with Iran is not a good barometer for how we will behave with normal countries!

I didn't know someone declared the US king of the world and gave it the power to decide who is a "bogus regimes"

"I won’t consider any government stoning people to death for social “crime” a normal country. Hopefully one day Iranians will overthrow the mullahs and bring their country to its former glory."

The US has great relations with Saudi Arabia and sells them top of the line F-15s but I guess there is no stoning or public executions happening there nor any elections.

Oh wait whats this? https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/n...ge-appears-public-beheading-Saudi-Arabia.html

Do countries who bomb civilians and toddlers with drones come under "bogus countries"?
US military admits it killed 10 civilians and targeted wrong vehicle in Kabul airstrike

What about countries who torture prisoners for decades and hold them in Guantanamo Bay without a trial?

The members of this forum are pretty well read so no one is really going to buy Yankee propaganda.

 

[mist_consecutive]

Australian airforce have also retired 90 f-18s, would have been best if we have had bought them as well,we could refurbish them to be air worthy for training purpose.

Taking in another new platform will stretch our logistics even further. We are already operating way too much of a diverse air fleet.

A wise thing will be buying another 36 more Rafales that will future-safe us against any Chinese & Pakistani air threats, and fast-forward with developing Tejas and AMCA.

 

[jackprince]

Yes, US has withdrawn support for bogus regimes like Iran and Venezuela. If you consider India in the league of Iran and Venezuela, I have nothing to say.



May be it’s time to open up your mind and not compare India with these rogue nations. You are only as big as you can imagine yourself. How we behave with Iran is not a good barometer for how we will behave with normal countries!

It is not what I think, but what US think that matters when it comes to US screwing over its partners in relationships. India historically never screwed any of its diplomatic friends ever, expect once voted against Iran instead of refraining during MMS time. But, US has ditched more diplomatic allies and friends in the history than any other nation! The abandonment of Afghanistan and lukewarm gestures to Taiwan are the latest in the series.

The fact of the matter is that US is the least reliable diplomatic partner in the world to have. It is run by a group of men who lack the depth to understand the concept of lasting diplomatic relationships, and are prone to act arbitrarily due to their superiority complex.

As for how you behave with normal countries, do you think world has forgotten One China moves that Richard Nixon made? US is as reliable a partner as a pimp in a whore house can be depended upon to provide of STD free service. France learnt is just now. In a few days Japan may learn.

So, heck yeah, we don't trust US. It can sure be a partner as in the arena of diplomacy nobody should be a pariah forever. But, don't expect us to trust your nation without hefty dose of reservation.

 

[Haldilal]

Ya'll Nibbiars The Qatar Mirage 2000's are still there we can add 12 well maintained aircraft all of them are in flying conditions with low flying hours hit on the every aircraft's.

 

[jackprince]

Ya'll Nibbiars The Qatar Mirage 2000's are still there we can add 12 well maintained aircraft all of them are in flying conditions with low flying hours hit on the every aircraft's.

We shouldn't waste so much dough on so many almost outdated platforms. We are already behind the numbers in modern fleet. Even out Sukhoi 30 MKis are at the verge of being obsolate as no upgrades are happening, yet we are making more of them instead upgrading the older ones with better radar and avionics! We are buying mothballed Mig 29s from 90s!

Enough is enough! Our main rival and potential enemy china is fielding a mostly modernized air force and 2 squadrons of Rafale is ill equipped to take on them! We need more Rafale as our LCA Mk.2 or AMCA - none will be materialising soon enough to fill the void of technological and capability gap in the coming years.

We may mock Chinese, but they are ahead in modernisation game as well as in numbers game. Yet, we are excited scavanging for our last era jets, instead of ordering for more Rafales. Everyone knows that more Rafales will be cheaper, yet none seem to be able to move their butt to do something about it!

 

[Haldilal]

We shouldn't waste so much dough on so many almost outdated platforms. We are already behind the numbers in modern fleet. Even out Sukhoi 30 MKis are at the verge of being obsolate as no upgrades are happening, yet we are making more of them instead upgrading the older ones with better radar and avionics! We are buying mothballed Mig 29s from 90s!

Enough is enough! Our main rival and potential enemy china is fielding a mostly modernized air force and 2 squadrons of Rafale is ill equipped to take on them! We need more Rafale as our LCA Mk.2 or AMCA - none will be materialising soon enough to fill the void of technological and capability gap in the coming years.

We may mock Chinese, but they are ahead in modernisation game as well as in numbers game. Yet, we are excited scavanging for our last era jets, instead of ordering for more Rafales. Everyone knows that more Rafales will be cheaper, yet none seem to be able to move their butt to do something about it!

Ya'll Nibbiars paisa Hoga to what you can do on 4 billion dollar capital budget of the IAF. And need atleats 10 billion dollars budget to induct 1,000 modern jets in a decade to counter the Mlecchas but again can't do that without Increasing the over all budget. And troop reduction is again a trap by the liberals like the west. We need to maintain the current force strength and increase the budget to modernize It's.