IAF Mirage 2000

[AnantS]

What are you even talking about??

Did I mention MiG-29K?? I was talking about the IAF's MiG-29A Baaz that was procured in the 1980s and effectively torpedoed the Mirage-2000 license assembly plans. The MiG-29A gave the IAF severe headaches in the early 1990s with premature failures of the RD-33 engines and various spares being hard to get due to the situation after the Soviet breakup.

Cheap, Soviet candy, kneejerk reaction to F16 purchase. 1980's we were defacto soviet satellite still smoking 71 bonhomie joint. French options though good were always pricey. The intrinsic Baniya within us saw Mig 29 no brainer.

 

[MirageBlue]

There was a deal for upgraded engines and AESA radar, new MFDs for the cockpit.

Never heard of this. Got a source to back this up? There was no AESA or upgraded engines considered for the Mirage-2000 upgrade AFAIK. There was a French Mirage-2000 used as a test bed for the Rafale's RBE-2 AESA radar but that was just a flying testbed, nothing more.

 

[BON PLAN]

Never heard of this. Got a source to back this up? There was no AESA or upgraded engines considered for the Mirage-2000 upgrade AFAIK. There was a French Mirage-2000 used as a test bed for the Rafale's RBE-2 AESA radar but that was just a flying testbed, nothing more.

End of M2000 line : 2007. At those time the RBE2 was a PESA one. AESA arrived operationnaly in 2013, and wasn't study at all for M2000.
In case of a french request, or a strong and real interest from Dassault customers an AESA radar may have been produced for M2000, but it was not the case. It has never be a technical issue.

About engine : There was a detailed plan, called M53-PX3, for a lighter and 8 to 10% more powerfull engine. Studies were ready in 2002, for a go live in 2003... As for the radar : French air force not interested (all for Rafale !) and the export support not strong enough.

 

[Wisemarko]

Same history for Rafale deal....

As an american, the sole acceptable deal is inked by a US company....

As an honest person, yes. Hard to remember “honest french deal”

Malaysia submarine/ Thales:

France's Thales under formal probe over Malaysia submarine deal, denies accusations

French defence group Thales on Wednesday confirmed a media report that the company was being formally investigated as part of a long-running corruption probe tied to the 2002 sale of submarines to Malaysia.

www.reuters.com

France's Thales charged over 2002 submarines deal with Malaysia

PARIS, France (AFP): A French judge has charged the defence group Thales with complicity in bribery over a 2002 sale of submarines to Malaysia, sources close to the inquiry told AFP on Tuesday (April 26).

www.thestar.com.my

Pakistan Submarine deal:

Six men sentenced over 'Karachi affair' arms deal - BBC News

Ex-French officials are given jail terms over an arms deal scandal involving almost €2m in kickbacks.

www.bbc.com

South Africa Thales deal:

Arms deal corruption trial against South African ex-President Zuma to start in May

A corruption case against former South African President Jacob Zuma and French company Thales related to a $2 billion arms deal will begin on May 17, a court said on Tuesday.

www.reuters.com

Brazil submarine deal:

Brazil-France submarine programme investigated for fraud

A Brazilian military submarine programme in partnership with French shipbuilder DCNS is under investigation for potential fraud.

eandt.theiet.org

Taiwan DCNS Frigate scandal:

Progress made on return of illegal kickbacks in Lafayette Frigate case | Taiwan News | 2021-02-06 11:10:00

Progress made on return of illegal kickbacks in Lafayette Frigate case | 2021-02-06 11:10:00

www.taiwannews.com.tw

These are not just accusations but courts have charged and/or sentenced French citizens/ corporations for corruption.

In India, serious allegations have been make against Thales for Scorpene($175 million kickbacks) and Mirage upgrade deals ($10 million).

 

[Flying Dagger]

Not true. I don't think you're aware of the details.

The Jaguar was a DPSA for the IAF, a strike jet. It was acquired in the late 1970s and HAL had already started manufacturing them when the IAF bought Mirage-2000s in the mid 1980s to counter the PAF acquisition of the F-16A. The Mirage-2000 was the ONLY other FBW equipped fighter in the world apart from the F-16 (and given that the F-18 wasn't an option) and considered the most modern available to the IAF.

The original plan was to buy 40 Mirages off the shelf and then opt for license manufacture of 100 Mirage-2000s in India at HAL. That was a part of the options clause for the original contract of the Mirage-2000s itself.

But then USSR came and offered the RAM-K (later called the MiG-29) soon after the Mirage-2000s were bought. The MiG-29 had been a super secret program of theirs and had only been offered to Warsaw Pact countries. IAF officers evaluated it, loved it's incredible T/W ratio and performance and suggested to the GoI and MoD to acquire them.

Soon after, there were 2 types of air superiority fighters in the IAF, the Mirage-2000 and the MiG-29. Thanks to the MiG-29 coming into the mix, the options clause for the Mirage-2000 was never converted since there was confusion as to whether to manufacture the costlier Mirage-2000 in India or the cheaper MiG-29. Later on, in the 1990s, India's economy all but collapsed and all talk of the license manufacture dissipated. The serviceability headaches of the MiG-29 meant that the IAF didn't want any more of them beyond the 75 odd that it bought from the USSR.

Later on, the Russians offered the Su-27UB and it was evaluated by the IAF and eventually that led to the Su-30MKI program in the late 1990s to early 2000s.

I have discussed this before and shared articles in chronology how it happened.


Jaguar was Anglo French. Britishers were pushing it.

French offered Mirage 2k a Multirole which can perform both Attack and interception and was soon going to enter production.

Total 300 jets were needed . We divided it in between 150 Jags first and Mirage 2k 150 later. (40+110 )


Mirage was twice as expensive as Mig 29 though and we didn't had much money. Initial lot was purchased with option for producing others in India.

Mig 29 performance made IAF opt for it.

Mirage was always used as strike while Mig 29 were air superiority which we saw in Kargil too.

Sukhoi is a different saga.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Cheap, Soviet candy, kneejerk reaction to F16 purchase. 1980's we were defacto soviet satellite still smoking 71 bonhomie joint. French options though good were always pricey. The intrinsic Baniya within us saw Mig 29 no brainer.

Mig 29 were top of the line interceptor and light air superiority fighter jet. It's just that we don't have enough of them.

They proved themselves throughout 90s specially in Kargil war.

There was a deal for upgraded engines and AESA radar, new MFDs for the cockpit.

Nope ... Never made it.



No AESA and engine upgrade was part of the deal.


Article referring to original Mirage vs Jaguar Vs Viggen .

Jaguar to give India formidable aerial striking capacity

India's recent decision to opt for the Anglo-French Jaguar to replace its obsolete DPSA (Deep Strike Penetration Aircraft) climaxes what has been one of the most controversial defence issues in recent years. The green signal for the Jaguars was only given after months of long-drawn out...

www.indiatoday.in

 

[AnantS]

Mig 29 were top of the line interceptor and light air superiority fighter jet. It's just that we don't have enough of them.

They proved themselves throughout 90s specially in Kargil war.

True, but initial batches of Mig 29 were shoddy built. IAF BRD and HAL had to do a lot of work.

 

[Flying Dagger]

True, but initial batches of Mig 29 were shoddy built. IAF BRD and HAL had to do a lot of work.

They were fine... Built rugged. We had issues due to spare supply being hit by Soviet Union disintegration. We bought cheaper spares from Ukraine etc .

 

[BON PLAN]

As an honest person, yes. Hard to remember “honest french deal”

One of your honnest President said there were mass destruction weapons in Irak. There was not. And France didn't accept to follow you, unlike GB for exemple....

So keep your lessons for newbies.

 

[Wisemarko]

One of your honnest President said there were mass destruction weapons in Irak. There was not. And France didn't accept to follow you, unlike GB for exemple....

So keep your lessons for newbies.

Nice attempt at distraction. We are talking about widespread corruption associated with French weapon export deals, bribery of foreign government officials and subsequent charges (and convictions) of French individuals for their involvement.

Next time come up with better response.

 

[BON PLAN]

Nice attempt at distraction. We are talking about widespread corruption associated with French weapon export deals, bribery of foreign government officials and subsequent charges (and convictions) of French individuals for their involvement.

Next time come up with better response.

3 minutes on google :

2022 : Biogen paid 900 USD millions to end a bribery affair.

États-Unis: le laboratoire Biogen va verser 900 millions pour solder une affaire de pots-de-vin

Le laboratoire Biogen a passé un accord amiable, prévoyant des indemnités de 900 millions de dollars, avec un lanceur d'alerte qui accusait la firme...

www.lefigaro.fr

July 2019 : Microsoft paid 25 USD millions for bribery

Pots-de-vin à l'étranger : Microsoft versera 25 millions de dollars de pénalités aux USA

Microsoft a accepté de régler des pénalités à hauteur de 25 millions de dollars auprès des autorités américaines. L'entreprise était poursuivie pour des

www.numerama.com

2013 : Johnson & Johnson paid 2,2 USD billions to avoid a court for bribery

Johnson & Johnson débourse 2,2 milliards de dollars pour éviter un procès

Le groupe pharmaceutique américain était accusé d’avoir versé des pots-de-vin à des pharmaciens. Un accord a été conclu avec le gouvernement américain pour mettre fin aux accusations.

www.lesechos.fr

USA über alles ! Zieg.

 

[Super falcon]

Legendary french aircrafts

 

[Wisemarko]

3 minutes on google :

2022 : Biogen paid 900 USD millions to end a bribery affair.

États-Unis: le laboratoire Biogen va verser 900 millions pour solder une affaire de pots-de-vin

Le laboratoire Biogen a passé un accord amiable, prévoyant des indemnités de 900 millions de dollars, avec un lanceur d'alerte qui accusait la firme...

www.lefigaro.fr

July 2019 : Microsoft paid 25 USD millions for bribery

Pots-de-vin à l'étranger : Microsoft versera 25 millions de dollars de pénalités aux USA

Microsoft a accepté de régler des pénalités à hauteur de 25 millions de dollars auprès des autorités américaines. L'entreprise était poursuivie pour des

www.numerama.com

2013 : Johnson & Johnson paid 2,2 USD billions to avoid a court for bribery

Johnson & Johnson débourse 2,2 milliards de dollars pour éviter un procès

Le groupe pharmaceutique américain était accusé d’avoir versé des pots-de-vin à des pharmaciens. Un accord a été conclu avec le gouvernement américain pour mettre fin aux accusations.

www.lesechos.fr

USA über alles ! Zieg.

Distraction doesn’t work on normal people. Why are you running away from defense topics?

Do I talk about Lafarge arming ISIS?
https://www.justice.gov/opa/video/l...erial-support-foreign-terrorist-organizations

Or Alstom paying bribes to Indonesians for boilers?

Jailed French executive who felt force of US bribery law

The jail ordeal of ex-Alstom executive Frédéric Pierucci is a warning for firms with a history of corruption.

www.bbc.com

So next time, give us examples of Indians we’re bribed for any US contract. Or just keep walking..

 

[NutCracker]

Mirage-2000: Indonesia Officially Rejects 2nd-Hand Qatari Jets; India Potential Buyer For Greek Jets?

Mirage-2000: Indonesia Officially Rejects 2nd-Hand Qatari Jets; India Potential Buyer Of Greek Jets?

As previously reported by EurAsian Times, Indonesia has officially discarded plans to acquire second-hand Mirage 2000-5 fighter jets from Qatar, the defense ministry spokesperson confirmed. China’s Aggressive Poaching Of US, NATO Military Officials, Pilots, Trainers Prompts 24 Nation Ramstein...

www.eurasiantimes.com