IAF asked to be ready for ‘wars’ with Pakistan, China

[smestarz]

You are adding info but not the relevant,
Why India is not buying Arjun? Its the weight if you see, its the heaviest tank !!! Good for protection but difficult for mobility and transport.

M1 Abram origin USA , weight 68 tons, crew 4, produced 10,000.
Leopard tank origin Germany , weight 62 tons, crew 4, produced 4000~
Merkava origin Israel , weight 65 tons, crew 4, produced 2000~
Challenger origin UK , weight 62 tons, crew 4, produced 450.
Altay origin turkey , weight 65 tons, crew 4, planned 1000.
Arjun tank origin India , weight 68 tons, crew 4, produced not even 400.


T-90 origin Russia , weight 50 tons, crew 3, ~~~~~~~~~~
Leclerc origin France , weight 57 tons, crew 3, produced 900.
K1,K2 origin South Korea , weight 55 tons, crew 3, produced 2000
Type ~ origin Japan , weight 50 tons, crew 3, produced 2000~
AL Khalid origin Pork , weight 50 tons, crew 3, produced/planned 1000


Rest all countries either Russian(max) or Western tanks.

Damn! the amount of Home currency these countries save.

 

[scatterStorm]

The most important factor is the last one, we have managed to develop even cryogenic rocket engines which only three other countries have been able to do but we could not develop a decent turbofan and turboprop jet engine, what a shame. If we are able to do it then 90% of our problems will be solved, airframe and avionics are no big deal, jet engine is, we cannot always rely on foreign vendors for our defense equipment needs. We have become almost self reliant in naval shipbuilding, artillery and armored vehicles, radars and sensors and missiles and even submarines but this is where we are lacking.

Anybody related to metallurgical science and advance thermodynamics engineering will tell you that developing a cryogenic rocket engines is not that difficult. You have LOx fuel, you ignite the fuel to push forward the rocket against gravity until it reaches escape velocity, that's not difficult because trajectory is already predefined. The reason why only few countries mastered it, is because to maintain that cryo state requires special treatment to it's rocket fuel and of course the rocket engines.

US and Russia went with the same fuel, but different engine designs, one being a giant ass rocket engine on "Saturn V" rocket while Russian used a boosted cycle rocket engine which ended up in total failure due to there later use of different composition of fuel mix, the N1.

Turbojet engines are a different problem altogether, what you want is a jet engine that can produce a decent thrust of 80kN, to be installed on a jet fighter that can take up the beating of aeronautical challenges like positive and negative drag, G figures, Stalling, turbulence etc. All the same time never stops unless it is made to do so, and perform sustained thrust while a jet performs attack or evasion maneuvers. That's complex in all regards.

This all leads to a very different way a jet engine being manufactured, the science is the same, but the metallurgy of constructing a jet engine for example like it's rotary blades and engine frame is quite challenging and hence a confidential stature. That's where we are lagging behind. Hence we are considering consulting options with Snecma.

 

[mendosa]

I hate to say it but one must observe how the Pakistani airforce behaves and compare that to the character of IAF.

As it is, the total defense budget of Pakistan is minuscule, compared to that of India, even after including the black money contribution of Fauji foundations and donations from Saudi Arabia and US. On top of that, the ground forces dominate the lion's share of military spending in Pakistan, so their airforce gets a smaller chunk of an already smaller defense budget. Even with such a handicap, I have never seen a PAF chief try to hoodwink the establishment and issue press conferences the way IAF does.

When US donates them F16, they fly that, when Turkey donates them trainer jets, they fly that. They make do with whatever they have and never complain about it, unlike IAF. When the Arab-Israeli war broke out, the PAF was given a suicide mission to make a one way trip to the Arab theater, do a bombing run on Israel and die. Not a single one of their pilot complained. Compare that to how IAF keeps cribbing about 'old tech' 'flying coffins' everyday.

The fact that IAF chief took an impromptu press conference just 3 hours after Parrikar had mentioned that "if the Rafales deal does not go through, we will use SU30 to fill the gap". Now, everyone knows that these two planes are in different genres altogether, probably the defense minister knew it better than anyone else, he is not stupid. He said it in order to build pressure on Rafale team during negotiations. But the IAF chief had to assume that the defense minister was stupid, and take a press conference immediately chastising the defense minister that those are two are different planes. This completely took the pressure of the Rafale team. If I were in the defense minister's place, I would leave all my work aside, take a day leave, if required, but make sure the IAF chief was tried for high treason and mutiny, for speaking out of turn and undermining our strong bargaining position.

These guys have no sense of decorum, or national interest. They just want to fly expensive planes, get commission from European defense companies and recommend next generation planes in their RFI so that after the current batch of IAF leeches retire, their sons could continue the tradition of flying costly planes at the cost of the tax payer.

I'm saying once again, I'm really pleased that Tyagi and Avinash Chander have been thrown out. In Soviet Union, all chiefs, be it intel chief or scientific chief, were given goal oriented deadlines. If they failed, they were sent to the gulag. During the Greek empire, the engineer who build a bridge was made to stand under it and a horse carriage was made to pass over it, so that if the bridge had faults, then the person responsible for it would die. Now, I'm not recommending these barbaric treatments for our service chiefs, but even they must understand that the current party they are having where they are not accountable to anyone, but everyone else is accountable to them, must stop.

 

[smestarz]

The IAF chief is not stupid, but even if its G2G deal there is something that apparently Dassault might have to pay (not sure how that works) IAF top brass is now just short of being part of UPA front .

I hate to say it but one must observe how the Pakistani airforce behaves and compare that to the character of IAF.

As it is, the total defense budget of Pakistan is minuscule, compared to that of India, even after including the black money contribution of Fauji foundations and donations from Saudi Arabia and US. On top of that, the ground forces dominate the lion's share of military spending in Pakistan, so their airforce gets a smaller chunk of an already smaller defense budget. Even with such a handicap, I have never seen a PAF chief try to hoodwink the establishment and issue press conferences the way IAF does.

When US donates them F16, they fly that, when Turkey donates them trainer jets, they fly that. They make do with whatever they have and never complain about it, unlike IAF. When the Arab-Israeli war broke out, the PAF was given a suicide mission to make a one way trip to the Arab theater, do a bombing run on Israel and die. Not a single one of their pilot complained. Compare that to how IAF keeps cribbing about 'old tech' 'flying coffins' everyday.

The fact that IAF chief took an impromptu press conference just 3 hours after Parrikar had mentioned that "if the Rafales deal does not go through, we will use SU30 to fill the gap". Now, everyone knows that these two planes are in different genres altogether, probably the defense minister knew it better than anyone else, he is not stupid. He said it in order to build pressure on Rafale team during negotiations. But the IAF chief had to assume that the defense minister was stupid, and take a press conference immediately chastising the defense minister that those are two are different planes. This completely took the pressure of the Rafale team. If I were in the defense minister's place, I would leave all my work aside, take a day leave, if required, but make sure the IAF chief was tried for high treason and mutiny, for speaking out of turn and undermining our strong bargaining position.

These guys have no sense of decorum, or national interest. They just want to fly expensive planes, get commission from European defense companies and recommend next generation planes in their RFI so that after the current batch of IAF leeches retire, their sons could continue the tradition of flying costly planes at the cost of the tax payer.

I'm saying once again, I'm really pleased that Tyagi and Avinash Chander have been thrown out. In Soviet Union, all chiefs, be it intel chief or scientific chief, were given goal oriented deadlines. If they failed, they were sent to the gulag. During the Greek empire, the engineer who build a bridge was made to stand under it and a horse carriage was made to pass over it, so that if the bridge had faults, then the person responsible for it would die. Now, I'm not recommending these barbaric treatments for our service chiefs, but even they must understand that the current party they are having where they are not accountable to anyone, but everyone else is accountable to them, must stop.

 

[mendosa]

The IAF chief is not stupid, but even if its G2G deal there is something that apparently Dassault might have to pay (not sure how that works) IAF top brass is now just short of being part of UPA front .

There's a difference between being stupid as in 'a technically incompetent person' and stupid as in 'an untrustworthy parasite'.

Whatever technical misgivings he (Arup Raha) had about the SU30 not being able to fill the role of the Rafale, he could have used the private communication line to tell it to Parrikar, instead of taking a press conference to make him look like an imbecile. The armed forces can't have it both ways. On one side they claim that sensitive matters should not be subject to public opinion for the sake of national security, so we believe them blindly, and at the next moment they take press conference to air their views about a multi billion dollar deal. I am sure that if someone from the pressed started asking him detailed questions, he would have said "that's classified". So dear, what is not classified? only those political partisan statements which IAF wants to make is unclassified?

I've noticed that there is a pattern of arrogance in every IAF. The Navy and Army chiefs never behave this way. Navy has themselves helped integrate the indigenous products which DRDO has made, the Army too faces so many challenges, but they never take press conferences to take potshots at the political leadership. It is only the IAF which has given itself that privilege. After singularly sabotaging the HAL Marut project in the 1980's and almost succeeding in killing the Tejas project now, this cartel must be kept under a close watch.

PS : I don't mind if a service chief makes a few crores here and there on a deal, in fact, it should be legalized and taxed as a legitimately earned commission for their technical consultation. But there is no scope for the commissions to drive their decisions and recommendations. This has cost us our national goals.

 

[smestarz]

What happens in India or happened was. At level or Captain or below, the soldiers are really excellently motivated. These have the nationalistic mentalities., The moment you see the levels of Majors to Colonels you see some variation in the traits, Some are nationalistic, and some now effected by some politics tend to be politically correct. Then at the topmost level which in a way they succeed because of their political connections and also give and take, tend to be more cosy with some politicians. There you see chiefs such as Tyagi and NAK Browne who became more of stooges of political parties more than Service chiefs. What is contribution of NAK Browne? Fixing of Rafale to be L1 (already a documented fact) and Pilatus as trainer by manipulating nos and convincing the Defence Ministry that Piltatus is cheap and when it turns out that he was hell bent in sabotaging HTT 40 at any cost to the nation. Also the fixing of Crazy price for Mirage 2000 upgrade which cost more than new Tejas. We already know the contribution of ACM Tyagi.

Actually these trend of speaking publicly started since NAK Browne who did a lot and did actively support Rafale even when the competition was on, This is documented fact too. He has gone to many public forums and said India needs ONLY RAFALES, And Raha did say Rafale or bust.
When the loyalty of ACMs are so much to a one company or the plane, either the company is Feeding the Chiefs family or someone is surely humping them.

There's a difference between being stupid as in 'a technically incompetent person' and stupid as in 'an untrustworthy parasite'.

Whatever technical misgivings he (Arup Raha) had about the SU30 not being able to fill the role of the Rafale, he could have used the private communication line to tell it to Parrikar, instead of taking a press conference to make him look like an imbecile. The armed forces can't have it both ways. On one side they claim that sensitive matters should not be subject to public opinion for the sake of national security, so we believe them blindly, and at the next moment they take press conference to air their views about a multi billion dollar deal. I am sure that if someone from the pressed started asking him detailed questions, he would have said "that's classified". So dear, what is not classified? only those political partisan statements which IAF wants to make is unclassified?

I've noticed that there is a pattern of arrogance in every IAF. The Navy and Army chiefs never behave this way. Navy has themselves helped integrate the indigenous products which DRDO has made, the Army too faces so many challenges, but they never take press conferences to take potshots at the political leadership. It is only the IAF which has given itself that privilege. After singularly sabotaging the HAL Marut project in the 1980's and almost succeeding in killing the Tejas project now, this cartel must be kept under a close watch.

PS : I don't mind if a service chief makes a few crores here and there on a deal, in fact, it should be legalized and taxed as a legitimately earned commission for their technical consultation. But there is no scope for the commissions to drive their decisions and recommendations. This has cost us our national goals.

 

[dineshchaturvedi]

I have been reading about needing planes for the last 20 years same story today.
The major difference now are alliances which people have not factored in. One with
the most advanced air power in Asia, second with strongest airpower in Middle East and third
with strongest airpower in the world. I am sure this is more than coincidental. Before
someone asks why I said Japan look at their ATD-X program .

Rafale done, we are close to doing make in India between F16 and Grippen. However, with Manohar Parikar out, I am not sure how this will move forward. I am failing to understand what Modi government is not taking advantage of Gen V K Singh by making defense minister.

 

[dineshchaturvedi]

Come on guys stop the shit....
Did really govt asked IAF to get ready for war without telling to other branches?
It's just a speculation by our shit media.

I don't think we are asking to prepare for war, I think it has to do with making sure we have enough reserves for war. There were concerns raised by Army and we ordered stocks from Russia worth few billion dollars. I think this is just an airforce version of the same. Which makes me feel Navy is fine.

 

[sthf]

@SilentAdmirer

Well we did tore Pakis a new one in just 13 days. One of the shortest war in modern times followed by a incredibly humiliating surrender. What do you think of that?

 

[sthf]

but Indian Army is trying to be too much 'Shantipiya' or 'Agyakari' Gentlemen...enough...they should break the neck of these pakis before they do another uri or mumbai....

Don't worry Pakis will be crushed like the cockroaches they are. They are importing fine cotton rolls to make high quality white flags.

 

[sthf]

hahaha....nice one pal but what will happen if like other cases this case will be forgotten? you know well about our media and politicians...

Thanks Dark Lord err... Silent Admirer.

As I said, don't worry cockroaches will be crushed just like they were crushed umpteen times before.

 

[aditya10r]

Thanks Dark Lord err... Silent Admirer.

As I said, don't worry cockroaches will be crushed just like they were crushed umpteen times before.

What that mofo is back
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[sthf]

What that mofo is back
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Yep. That little shit is obsessed with this forum. Probably suffering from some kind of mental disorder. Inbreeding has consequences.

 

[smestarz]

Army, and Air force both know and are prepared for a two front war,.
For Navy, it would be more of holding seige of Karachi and ensure that we control our side of Malacca strait and our P-8 I are hunting for any submarine which comes 500 kms near indian landmass.

I don't think we are asking to prepare for war, I think it has to do with making sure we have enough reserves for war. There were concerns raised by Army and we ordered stocks from Russia worth few billion dollars. I think this is just an airforce version of the same. Which makes me feel Navy is fine.