IAF asked to be ready for ‘wars’ with Pakistan, China

[Yggdrasil]

Take it from me. There will be a terror attack in Pak within a few days as retribution. It's just a matter of time.

You honestly think India has something to do with terror attacks in Porkistan? You've had a big gulp of that ISI Koolaid it seems.

 

[Butter Chicken]

You honestly think India has something to do with terror attacks in Porkistan? You've had a big gulp of that ISI Koolaid it seems.

According to ISPR,RAW has made a menu with prices for attacks,groups like TTP can ask for money from RAW after the attack with video proof etc.Money varies according to the no of kills,scale of attack,location etc

 

[Srinivas_K]

Produce LCA in numbers or buy F16's , in case of two front war India needs to be defensive w.r.t china border and strike Pakistan with su 30 mki and rafales.

In case of war with Pakistan the assets which we have and procuring are enough.

 

[Butter Chicken]

Produce LCA in numbers or buy F16's , in case of two front war India needs to be defensive w.r.t china border and strike Pakistan with su 30 mki and rafales.

In case of war with Pakistan the assets which we have are procuring are enough.

yes buy F-16 with kill switch,US will sell F-16 but wont allow them to use against enemy

 

[Srinivas_K]

yes buy F-16 with kill switch,US will sell F-16 but wont allow them to use against enemy

The engines used in LCA are from USA.

 

[Yggdrasil]

According to ISPR,RAW has made a menu with prices for attacks,groups like TTP can ask for money from RAW after the attack with video proof etc.Money varies according to the no of kills,scale of attack,location etc

Sure, and according to them Kulbhushan Jadhav was a spy and a terrorist and Benazir and Bhutto were also killed by RAAAWWW and LeJ is also RAWWWW and Altaf Hussain is also RAWWW agent and Nawaz Sharif is also RAWWWWW agent.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

I have been reading about needing planes for the last 20 years same story today.
The major difference now are alliances which people have not factored in. One with
the most advanced air power in Asia, second with strongest airpower in Middle East and third
with strongest airpower in the world. I am sure this is more than coincidental. Before
someone asks why I said Japan look at their ATD-X program .

 

[republic_roi97]

Sure, and according to them Kulbhushan Jadhav was a spy and a terrorist and Benazir and Bhutto were also killed by RAAAWWW and LeJ is also RAWWWW and Altaf Hussain is also RAWWW agent and Nawaz Sharif is also RAWWWWW agent.

Donald Trump is also a RAAAWWWW agent. Mossad is also RAAWWW agents, the asteroid that killed dinosaurs was also RAAWWW agent.

Pakistani Logic

 

[mendosa]

3.8 lakh crore was the waiver of corporate loans by UPA govt- Imagine what we could've bought with 3.8 lakh crore those days-

Hint: cost of 126 Rafale deal was pegged at 1 lakh crore by IAF in 2015 end-

We would've had 600 rafale from that money- Making IAF No-2 most powerful airforce in the world after America-

Why just 600 Rafales? From IAF's point of view, even 1000 Rafales are not enough, because tomorrow we might face a joint invasion of aliens from Mars and Jupiter, and 1000 planes are not enough, we need at least 5000 Rafales to fight the aliens who are planning to invade us next Sunday.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Donald Trump is also a RAAAWWWW agent. Mossad is also RAAWWW agents, the asteroid that killed dinosaurs was also RAAWWW agent.

Pakistani Logic

In fact Musharraf once said that Pork army uses Kashmiris as tools how can he say that he must also be RAWWWWW

 

[republic_roi97]

Why just 600 Rafales? From IAF's point of view, even 1000 Rafales are not enough, because tomorrow we might face a joint invasion of aliens from Mars and Jupiter, and 1000 planes are not enough, we need at least 5000 Rafales to fight the aliens who are planning to invade us next Sunday.

The aliens are also RAAAWWWW agents.
RIP Pakistan Logic

 

[smestarz]

Wow so many RAW AGENTS? That leaves just handful of actual pakistanis.
Maybe the PAF pilots are also filled with RAW Agents !!!

Sure, and according to them Kulbhushan Jadhav was a spy and a terrorist and Benazir and Bhutto were also killed by RAAAWWW and LeJ is also RAWWWW and Altaf Hussain is also RAWWW agent and Nawaz Sharif is also RAWWWWW agent.

 

[Krusty]

Why just 600 Rafales? From IAF's point of view, even 1000 Rafales are not enough, because tomorrow we might face a joint invasion of aliens from Mars and Jupiter, and 1000 planes are not enough, we need at least 5000 Rafales to fight the aliens who are planning to invade us next Sunday.

We need Optimus prime and entire autobots in Michael Bay 4K HD effects incase megatron attacks. Oh we also need the Death Star incase we have to wipe out Saturn.

 

[smestarz]

Few points for you
A) which joker told you Rafale has 75% serviceability? The only user with numbers is France and their availability is 55% and I am talking of official report in FRENCH SENATE. So I would go for what is given in the senate.

B) The availability rate of Su-30 MKI was due to spares, and after Parrikar became the DM, he identified the problem and ensured that the parts arrive within a month of order (earlier the parts would come a year after order)

C) I shall quote a source directly
"MoD was informed about serious problems with IAF's management of spares. By standard norms, a fighter fleet consumes five per cent of its worth in consumables and spares each year. By that benchmark the Su-30MKI fleet, currently worth about Rs 69,000 crore - 193 Su-30MKIs at Rs 358 crore a fighter - should consume spares worth Rs 3,450 crore annually. Yet, IAF orders from HAL add up to less than Rs 50 crore, including ground handling equipment."
http://www.business-standard.com/ar...mki-s-poor-serviceability-114102300006_1.html
This is IAF for you.

C) France has very high availability for Mirage 2000, and India is one of the air force where it was grounded due to lack of spares.. 0 AVAILABILITY. So the problem is with the plane? the country making the plane? or the people who use and maintain the plane?

Just to sum it, Parrikar is not a IAF technical person, but when he puts in new ideas for ordering spares, the availability rate has gone past 55% and is aiming to reach 75% and compare this with Availability rate of Rafale in French air force 55% you have the clear picture.,

The Army went for T-90 because of the weight, The weight is directly related to transporting the tanks. T-90 weigh less than 50 tons and Arjun weighs in excess of 60 tons and that is the BIG DIFFERENCE,

Indian Army wants their future tank to weigh less than 50 tons.

Let me give you an example, The best tank with best gun and best armour was King Tiger or Tiger 2. and also you can add the wonderful Panther Tank (PzKw V) but the best and most sucesssful design was T-34/85
It had 85 mm gun, excellent suspension that allowed it to fire when moving. The Russian tanks moved freely where as the german tanks got stuck.

Understand one thing, a tank that cannot reach front lines is useless tank,. Unless the enemy is stupid enough to attack the tank lines instead of bypassing them and then attacking them based on their own advantage.
Thats a lesson for you about tank combat.

What's the point of having a fighter which is grounded 40% of the time. Unlike Rafale which will have 75% serviceability.

There was also another test where our Arjun tank beat the t-90 but the army went for more t-90s instead of arjuns. Yeah, nobody believes in tests conducted by Russian lap dogs.

 

[smestarz]

Here is another part of it..

To ensure that 13-14 per cent of the Su-30MKI fleet is not grounded for want of spares, HAL has stockpiled spares worth Rs 400 crore in Nashik. According to S Subrahmanyan, the chief of HAL’s Nashik facility, the inventory is based on a study of consumption patterns of Su-30MKI spares over the preceding five years.
HAL says this buffer stock includes spares that are still purchased from Russia, because low consumption volumes make indigenisation non-cost-effective. Even so, non-availability of these spares could ground aircraft.


Simultaneously, HAL has proposed to the MoD that the IAF must order spares required over a 5-year period, stocking them at 25 Equipment Depot, the IAF’s holding depot for spares at Nashik.


Separately, HAL has offered the IAF “Performance Based Logistics” (PBL) for the Su-30MKI fleet --- a solution common in advanced western air forces. PBL would bind HAL to maintain the Su-30MKI, providing the IAF a specified serviceability rate --- calculated in flight hours, or as a percentage of the total aircraft fleet --- in exchange for an annual service charge.

Besides saving maintenance costs for the IAF, PBL has been found to encourage quality manufacture, since manufacturers know they will be responsible for keeping the aircraft serviceable through its operational life.


MoD officials say the IAF dislikes the PBL model, because outsourcing maintenance to HAL threatens a large maintenance empire built around “base repair depots”, manned by IAF personnel. In 2008-09, the IAF rejected HAL’s proposal for a PBL contract for maintaining the Hawk advanced jet trainer.

HAL is confident that it can deliver higher serviceability rates for the Su-30MKI than the current 58 per cent. The company has argued that raising aircraft availability by 20 per cent would make 40 Su-30MKI additionally available to the IAF, effectively adding two fighter squadrons to its strike power.


JUST FOR YOUR INFO,. WITH RAFALE DEAL, IAF IS GETTING PBL for these Rafale,s If in words of IAF to HAL... Duniya to baatati hai (Shares with the world) Apneko Daatati hai (and scolds me for doing same) Thats the duplicity of IAF for you,

Further most of the Su-30 MKI are in the open, without any hangars, but for the Rafales there are going to be air conditioned Hangars.. lol Su-30 MKI are given step brotherly treatment and yet expect higher availability rate? Man are you born stupid or were you the apple that fell?

What's the point of having a fighter which is grounded 40% of the time. Unlike Rafale which will have 75% serviceability.

There was also another test where our Arjun tank beat the t-90 but the army went for more t-90s instead of arjuns. Yeah, nobody believes in tests conducted by Russian lap dogs.

 

[captscooby81]

@mendosa Well to a point i agree with you we don't actually need more numbers of fighters ..Because we can only cover the entire range of pakistan with the current generation fighters from our bases ..China none of our fighters for that sake any fighters available in the world today has that much range if we want to use them from our bases in AP or Leh to fly deep into chinese territory or the East cost major cities ..We need to bring limited Multi Role fighters and invest on some Strategic bombers very badly and urgently this will be the need if we are thinking to take the war into chinese mainland and create some damage ..Chinese have advantage here as they had build some many bases near to our LOC in the Tibet region which they can use to strike deep inside our northern and eastern major cities if they were able to cross our Air defences without a scratch and also escape our interceptor fighters ..

1.Need to invest more on the missiles and also on Submarines to take on China .. Pakistan is sufficiently covered now with the current fleet of fighters and our missiles and ships
2.Strategic command has to be created as @mendosa rightly said move the fighters to Army aviation and airforce should hold on to the Bigger Multirole fighters.
3.Cross utilisation of resources has to be taken with more serious interest ..Why to simply use Airforce for some strike role missions when Army has brahmos missile or other land attack missiles ..

 

[smestarz]

IF IAF did not have stupid arrogant leaders and govt stooges like ex IAF Chiefs like Tyagi and NAK Browne, IAF would have done way better, but sadly the services are highly infiltrated by people who are promoted by the Defence ministry (and the UPA party then in power)

 

[smestarz]

There are few ideas that I might have

A) ARMY.
1. It is better to go for Tracked AFV armed with say 30mm or 35 mm gun (with ability to attack low flying planes and helicopters also) and armed with ATGMs. This is a more effective tank killer than another tank and from a distance,
2. Invest in something like quadruple drone that has sensors and ability to lift / carry a modular pack carrying either 4 ATGMS or 75 mm fast firing gun with 20 round magazine. This is will be in a way useful like pop up, fire at the targets, pop down and scoot.
3. Develop Army Air force that will handle the role of CAS and operational strike. IAF would carry out strategic, and tactical roles, and also have role to overlap the role of AAF.
4. Give them more tactical attack drones that can fly high and provide support and intelligence to army units.
5. Induct the indigenous ATAGS
6. Also if possible to develop a 155 mm gun with say 10-15 round magazine this might help to have a very high rate of fire required to supress the enemy and few guns can do a lot than more guns due to high rate of fire.

B) NAVY.
1. Invest in big Hovercraftsto be used as force projection vessels..
2. Invest in naval reconaissance and develop an AEW system based on US-2 Amphibious plane
3.Have Ground based naval aviation that co-ordinates with the naval ships and ensures secure maritime birder. Use planes like Tejas to provide CAP for important naval bases but used and flown by Naval pilots.
4. Invest more in nuclear submarines than an aircraft carrier., ACs are tremendous sight but also the most tempting target. Submarines are not that easy targets if they are stealthy.

C) IAF
1. Order more Tejas and build up nos, Retire any IAF officer who is not in favour of inducting tejas or bypass them for promotion.
2. Go for a squadron of PAKFA, fly them and know them and suggest changes for FGFA (PAKFA MKI)
3. Give the inputs to AMCA project and develop AMCA involving the user. I prefer AMCA to be primarily a Nava plane as if with many Naval air base, they would have a requirement of about 200 planes in total.
4. Go for more S-400 units and put most of them near India china border to nullify the threat of PLAAF.

This is some of the steps that I might go for

@mendosa Well to a point i agree with you we don't actually need more numbers of fighters ..Because we can only cover the entire range of pakistan with the current generation fighters from our bases ..China none of our fighters for that sake any fighters available in the world today has that much range if we want to use them from our bases in AP or Leh to fly deep into chinese territory or the East cost major cities ..We need to bring limited Multi Role fighters and invest on some Strategic bombers very badly and urgently this will be the need if we are thinking to take the war into chinese mainland and create some damage ..Chinese have advantage here as they had build some many bases near to our LOC in the Tibet region which they can use to strike deep inside our northern and eastern major cities if they were able to cross our Air defences without a scratch and also escape our interceptor fighters ..

1.Need to invest more on the missiles and also on Submarines to take on China .. Pakistan is sufficiently covered now with the current fleet of fighters and our missiles and ships
2.Strategic command has to be created as @mendosa rightly said move the fighters to Army aviation and airforce should hold on to the Bigger Multirole fighters.
3.Cross utilisation of resources has to be taken with more serious interest ..Why to simply use Airforce for some strike role missions when Army has brahmos missile or other land attack missiles ..

 

[aditya10r]

There are few ideas that I might have

A) ARMY.
1. It is better to go for Tracked AFV armed with say 30mm or 35 mm gun (with ability to attack low flying planes and helicopters also) and armed with ATGMs. This is a more effective tank killer than another tank and from a distance,
2. Invest in something like quadruple drone that has sensors and ability to lift / carry a modular pack carrying either 4 ATGMS or 75 mm fast firing gun with 20 round magazine. This is will be in a way useful like pop up, fire at the targets, pop down and scoot.
3. Develop Army Air force that will handle the role of CAS and operational strike. IAF would carry out strategic, and tactical roles, and also have role to overlap the role of AAF.
4. Give them more tactical attack drones that can fly high and provide support and intelligence to army units.
5. Induct the indigenous ATAGS
6. Also if possible to develop a 155 mm gun with say 10-15 round magazine this might help to have a very high rate of fire required to supress the enemy and few guns can do a lot than more guns due to high rate of fire.

B) NAVY.
1. Invest in big Hovercraftsto be used as force projection vessels..
2. Invest in naval reconaissance and develop an AEW system based on US-2 Amphibious plane
3.Have Ground based naval aviation that co-ordinates with the naval ships and ensures secure maritime birder. Use planes like Tejas to provide CAP for important naval bases but used and flown by Naval pilots.
4. Invest more in nuclear submarines than an aircraft carrier., ACs are tremendous sight but also the most tempting target. Submarines are not that easy targets if they are stealthy.

C) IAF
1. Order more Tejas and build up nos, Retire any IAF officer who is not in favour of inducting tejas or bypass them for promotion.
2. Go for a squadron of PAKFA, fly them and know them and suggest changes for FGFA (PAKFA MKI)
3. Give the inputs to AMCA project and develop AMCA involving the user. I prefer AMCA to be primarily a Nava plane as if with many Naval air base, they would have a requirement of about 200 planes in total.
4. Go for more S-400 units and put most of them near India china border to nullify the threat of PLAAF.

This is some of the steps that I might go for

Navy needs to invest more in anti sub warfare capabilities,need missile boats to light up gwadar and karachi harbour..................
Some 30 attack subs are enough to keep pakis hostage............

Army must work on super quick mobilization and deployment.............

 

[captscooby81]

I would also wish they do the same Order more Tejas and replace the entire Mig-21,23,27 with only Tejas cancel the new procurement plan for 200 Single engine fighters .. But i would also not want govt to let HAL Taken Airforce for granted with the Tejas order and show its ugly .....ss of sarkari naukri mentality of saying they will deliver 9 aircrafts a year and will finish tejas 200 order by another 2 decades and don t want to invest or work on creating anything new .. When we give a Big order to HAL for 200 Tejas with a strict deadline it will force them to go for outsourcing with private vendors for the production which will create an very good Fighter jet manufacturing ecosystem ..Which in turn will help in any future Fighter projects .. Today HAL don t have the capacity neither the private industry has invested in the eco system to support to ram up the production ...China is not building aircrafts just like that they have invested in so many projects which is helping them today ...

There are few ideas that I might have

C) IAF
1. Order more Tejas and build up nos, Retire any IAF officer who is not in favour of inducting tejas or bypass them for promotion.

This is some of the steps that I might go for