Hypersonic Missiles

[rishivashista13]

For that brahmos need to fly in lo-lo mode which will ristrict the range to 120 KM.

We are developing nirbhay for that purpose only (range) .

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[HariPrasad-1]

Yes and that is subsonic and not as difficult to intercept as brahmos.

We are developing nirbhay for that purpose only (range) .

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[rishivashista13]

Yes and that is subsonic and not as difficult to intercept as brahmos.

Ofcourse , work is also going on the extended range bhramos 2 .
Hypersonic , estimated range = 600 Kms .

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[psri]

BrahMos 2 HyperSonic is Expected in 2024

 

[AnantS]

There is a longer range Ramjet missile, also in works

 

[rishivashista13]

If this is the condition shaurya (शौर्य) missile can be used , that can also do some great work , it is hypersonic , can cruise at low altitudes , and can make some noise .

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[asianobserve]

DARPA developing reusable hypersonic Mach 5+ engine

http://nextbigfuture.com/2016/06/darpa-developing-reusable-hypersonic.html

 

[no smoking]

Brahmos usp is speed. DO you(China) have anything to counter it? India and Israel have called Barak 8. So does US

S-300, HQ-9, etc.

There is a reason, India Russia US and even China are spending some big amounts on Scramjets.

That is because they think Brahmos with Rampjet engine is kind of weapon with great weakness. There is a reason that Russia never included similar weapon in her plan of Europe war.

Now If India has to bomb Chinese bases in Tibet(or vice versa): the choice will be to deploy SAAW & SSM's to neutralize the airfields. Long Range ARM to neutralize SAM threat. The way Brahmos block 3 has been specially tested for "trajectory maneuver and steep dive capabilities for precision attack" in Mountains, suggests its specialized use. Neverthless I don't see a reason, why it cannot be used to attack a heavily defended base followed by cheaper munitions.

Just a question: after your SAAW & SSM and ARM eliminate every potential threat from Chinese to Brahmos and the platform, why do you still need Brahmos for further attack. The Chinese sky will be completely open to Indian air force, at this stage, the ordinary bomber with cheaper bomb can do whatever Brahmos can do and more efficiently.

So, you got one problem: before you can use Brahmos, you need to clear the enemy's air defence system including Sam and fighter with other weapons. after you achieve this successfully, you don't need brahmos anymore.

 

[AnantS]

S-300, HQ-9, etc.

I doubt their high speed, low flying- maneuvering target interception capability. you may get that capability via S 400.

That is because they think Brahmos with Rampjet engine is kind of weapon with great weakness. There is a reason that Russia never included similar weapon in her plan of Europe war.

This weapon was late 80-90's. All Plans were awry. Its not that Soviets never had any hyper-sonic cruise missiles before. They had plenty. But its only now they are planning to integrate with Submarines. US sees Brahmos like weapon from Russia as threat in Black Sea and elsewhere.

Just a question: after your SAAW & SSM and ARM eliminate every potential threat from Chinese to Brahmos and the platform, why do you still need Brahmos for further attack. The Chinese sky will be completely open to Indian air force, at this stage, the ordinary bomber with cheaper bomb can do whatever Brahmos can do and more efficiently.

To defeat your air defenses from long range. Once done aircraft delivered cheaper munitions do the leg work.

So, you got one problem: before you can use Brahmos, you need to clear the enemy's air defence system including Sam and fighter with other weapons. after you achieve this successfully, you don't need brahmos anymore.

What looks like is that Brahmos would prolly be the weapon of choice to clear those S-300 sites. A low flying swarm attack. Meanwhile India is supposedly working on a much longer range supersonic cruise missile independently. Plenty of variables will be introduced on both side in their effort to skew the balance in one's favor.

 

[no smoking]

I doubt their high speed, low flying- maneuvering target interception capability. you may get that capability via S 400.

Opposing to what you doubt, S400 is something superior to any existing air-defence system. People generally put Barak8 on the level of S300.

http://missilethreat.com/barak-gets-bigger-and-better/

The main reason India wants Barak8 is as same as Israel, she need a air-defence system to cover her own navy boat.

This weapon was late 80-90's. All Plans were awry. Its not that Soviets never had any hyper-sonic cruise missiles before. They had plenty. But its only now they are planning to integrate with Submarines. US sees Brahmos like weapon from Russia as threat in Black Sea and elsewhere.

So, US and you agree with me, supersonic cruise missile is more suitable for anti-ship purpose. No one was putting this kind of weapon against land target. Why? it is really a waste to use such an expensive weapon to attack numerous targets on the land. Your enemy can easily build up 20, 30 fake targets around the real one.

To defeat your air defenses from long range. Once done aircraft delivered cheaper munitions do the leg work.

Using $3.2m cruise missile to attack air-defence system? You can simply bankrupt your own army before they accumulated enough stock. At the mean time, Chinese cruise missile, as cheap as American Tomahawk, can attack your bases from thousands kilometres away in mass number.

Even Chinese short-range ballistic missile is cheaper than your brahmos. Both American and Chinese believe ballistic missile is more suitable for attacking enemy's headquarters, logistic centres.

What looks like is that Brahmos would prolly be the weapon of choice to clear those S-300 sites.

That is most stupid choice: without enough number, Brahmos won't be able to clear S-300 sites. It is like using Ferrari to do taxi job, can it do the job? of course, it can. But buying thousands of Ferrari as cab in one city? No one except fools will do it

 

[Yumdoot]

@no smoking , some of these guys are just pulling your leg.

Different versions of Brahmos Mk-1 are supposed to have a production run of 2000 total out of which only 1000 were supposed to be bought by Indian armed forces while rest were to be exported or bought by the Russians. Since then Russians have all but dropped their share but then our own requirements seems to be increasing and moreover export customers are very keen on Brahmos. Russians too would be more then willing to have Brahmos exported by the JV.

But bulk attacks would come from Nirbhays and not Brahmos. Brahmos are to attack the enemies kill chain and not for bombarding every sundry target. Brahmos is a sniper's weapon and not an assault weapon.

 

[Adioz]

If this is the condition shaurya (शौर्य) missile can be used , that can also do some great work , it is hypersonic , can cruise at low altitudes , and can make some noise .

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I would not call a 40 km high flight-profile "low altitude". Its just a depressed trajectory. Helps to avoid very early detection and interception by ABMs.
Brahmos can fly a few meters above sea-level. That is the sort of profile that makes a difference against SAMs. That is what I would call low-altitude.
Maybe the term "low altitude" is just too vague.

 

[Adioz]

Now that we are a signatory to the MTCR, why are we not developing longer range Brahmos II?

Ofcourse , work is also going on the extended range bhramos 2 .
Hypersonic , estimated range = 600 Kms .

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Oh......ok.
Any source for this?

 

[busesaway]

These kind of investments are aspects of the defense industry that I tend to be more proud of. While the military progress will not doubt help India's military projectile, the scientific achievements of these projects can be put to peaceful uses in the civilian industry.

Regardless of the cost of the project, or the defensive usefulness of the project, the scientific value of this will be akin to the space project.

These are the types of projects Indian defense contractors should engage in with China for the development of the defense industry.

 

[Adioz]

These are the types of projects Indian defense contractors should engage in with China for the development of the defense industry.

WT(ACTUAL)F?
Dude. In case you have not noticed, India is a rival of China (And I am sugarcoating the heck out of this statement).

We are developing hypersonic technology to keep our missile capability relevant in the face of advancing Chinese missile defence systems. Why would we bother co-development with China in a technological field in which we want to leave the Chinese behind?

I agree that hypersonic tech will create beneficial civilian spin-offs and allied technology. But the technology is dual-use. Not even the daft Pakistanis would do something so stupid.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Now that we are a signatory to the MTCR, why are we not developing longer range Brahmos II?

1. We are already developing a long range CM Nirbhay.
2. We are developing HGVs too. HSTDV may be tested by end of this year.
3. We just tested our scramjet (that even DMRJ :biggrin2 last month which made us fourth country to do so. It will further help us to make indigenous supersonic and hypersonic platforms.

MTCR membership may undoubtedly facilitate easy missile and UAV Tech Exchange but it also provides more privileges over exports.
When we have own active program progressing well, we must not go crazy for BrahMos JV I think.
Let both go on normally to be a premier in missile tech.
An over optimistic person like has even started of dreaming of a 2500-4000 long range supersonic LACMs (and probably even ICCMs) like USA, Russia or PRC even before operationalization of Nirbhay.

 

[busesaway]

WT(ACTUAL)F?
Dude. In case you have not noticed, India is a rival of China (And I am sugarcoating the heck out of this statement).

We are developing hypersonic technology to keep our missile capability relevant in the face of advancing Chinese missile defence systems. Why would we bother co-development with China in a technological field in which we want to leave the Chinese behind?

I agree that hypersonic tech will create beneficial civilian spin-offs and allied technology. But the technology is dual-use. Not even the daft Pakistanis would do something so stupid.

China is unfairly hated in this forum. It's a rising superpower with technological advances that match those made by the USSR during the Cold War. There's no reason to maintain a stalemate with China in a similar manner to Pakistan - Indians and Chinese generally get along in many fields of industry and culture, and economically India and China are very close to each other.

The progression from the current situation will obviously be closer military ties and defense ties, that are mutually beneficial for China and India.

 

[Adioz]

China is unfairly hated in this forum. It's a rising superpower with technological advances that match those made by the USSR during the Cold War. There's no reason to maintain a stalemate with China in a similar manner to Pakistan - Indians and Chinese generally get along in many fields of industry and culture, and economically India and China are very close to each other.

The progression from the current situation will obviously be closer military ties and defense ties, that are mutually beneficial for China and India.

Point noted. Now get this in that thick skull of yours:-

1. CLOSER ECONOMIC TIES WITH CHINA BENEFIT INDIA.
2. STAYING MILITARILY ON GUARD AGAINST CHINA IS THE ONLY MILITARILY CORRECT OPTION FOR INDIA.
3. WE DO NOT HATE CHINA FOR THE SAME REASON THE WEST DOES. WE HAVE LEGITIMATE CONCERNS. (Tibet, Border-claims, Pakistan and its nukes, lack of democracy in China)
4. IF CHINA EVER BECAME A DEMOCRACY, WHERE PUBLIC OPINION MATTERS, WE WILL BE ABLE TO MITIGATE THE TRUST DEFICIT WITH A CLOSER PEOPLE-PEOPLE LINK BETWEEN CHINESE AND INDIANS. UNTIL THAT HAPPENS, WE CANNOT TRUST CHINA
5. WE ARE NOT AGAINST CHINA OR ITS PEOPLE OR ITS CULTURE. WE ARE AGAINST THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA.

This is getting off-topic. Move to a new thread if you want to keep at it.

 

[sorcerer]

These kind of investments are aspects of the defense industry that I tend to be more proud of. While the military progress will not doubt help India's military projectile, the scientific achievements of these projects can be put to peaceful uses in the civilian industry.
.

Do tell that to North Korea which chinese are supporting through pakistan.

Regardless of the cost of the project, or the defensive usefulness of the project, the scientific value of this will be akin to the space project.

India knows it better than any nation who is arming the space with weapons ..like yeah..china.

These are the types of projects Indian defense contractors should engage in with China for the development of the defense industry

pakis reading this will have a heart attack.
defence industry is not how chinese make mobile phones...in large numbers for cheap customers.

India wont gain anything working with china.
What can china expect to share with India... Copied documents from USA/Europe?

 

[sorcerer]

China is unfairly hated in this forum. It's a rising superpower with technological advances that match those made by the USSR during the Cold War. .

Can you stop copy pasting your brief which your senior 50 center gave you..you copy pasted the same thing in a another discussion.

china is hated because of its support for terrorist state of pakistan
china is hated because of its support for Naxals and arming naxals in India
china is hated because it wipes paki ass by countering Indias bid to NSG
china is hated for its proliferation of nukes to NoKo via pak.
china is hated for its proposed CPEC pipe line which goes through pakistan occupied Indian territory.
china is hated for its terrorism investment for paki terrorist factories.

USA/ISREAEL/RUSSIA/Nations in EU all have technologies advanced technologies which are tried and tested in REAL WAR.
How may of chinese weapons are used in REAL WAR anywhere?
Even pakis are shopping for fighters from US Turkey etc.
that shows technological ADVANCEMENT of chinese war machines.

There's no reason to maintain a stalemate with China in a similar manner to Pakistan - Indians and Chinese generally get along in many fields of industry and culture, and economically India and China are very close to each other

Okay..nice to see you departed from the "cultural " equality with India and is sticking to more realistic term "economy"
pakistan is India's pest supported by china.

There is no point in supporting chinese culture as HAN chinese, who is the majority have NO SAY IN the governance of china via CCP.
CCP is governed by its agendas and has zilch conditions for culture and stuffs like that.
So its a waste of time in cultural engagement or understanding HAN CHINESE.

The progression from the current situation will obviously be closer military ties and defense ties, that are mutually beneficial for China and India.

Yes.
Thats why India is having mutual defence ties with almost all nations in chinese periphery.
See like china, India is protecting its interests and security.