HTFE-25: HAL's 25 kN aero engine

Bahrtiya

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2016
Messages
33
Likes
43
When Parrikar was there to see this engine, I had advocated same on the thread. If we get a more powerful variant of this engine, Say 40 KN, we may use it in Jaguar as well.
If we get 40kn dry thrust engine then we can try double engine lca , what do you think!?
 

Eastman

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2013
Messages
388
Likes
210
Country flag
Saras is a flaw right from the drawing board, it has design issue so probably further research on Saras may have been scrapped.

What happened to our desi engine on our Nirbhay CM :yuno:
 

HariPrasad-1

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2016
Messages
6,130
Likes
9,205
Country flag
Saras is a flaw right from the drawing board, it has design issue so probably further research on Saras may have been scrapped.

What happened to our desi engine on our Nirbhay CM :yuno:
It is almost done as per saurav Jha in one of his twit.
 

Indx TechStyle

War Mongerer
Mod
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
13,358
Likes
26,004
Country flag
Saras is a flaw right from the drawing board, it has design issue so probably further research on Saras may have been scrapped.
Project has been revived. Over that, India will commit production of Sukhoi Superjet 100 to further gain skills.
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/indian-aviation-sector.77315/page-2#post-1220117
R.K. Tyagi has mentioned an airliner under development, other than Saras. I don't know if it's RTA-70/90 or a new project.

Does somebody know about it?
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/indian-aviation-sector.77315/#post-1215866
What happened to our desi engine on our Nirbhay CM :yuno:
Ohh maybe my knowledge is kinda out dated. Btw any news about nirbhay mating with a desi turbofan?
Ground tests for indigenous turbofan engine has been completed and integration is underway. Given failures occurred last time, there won't be any hurry in tests.
 

Certified Gipsy

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2016
Messages
93
Likes
115
Project has been revived. Over that, India will commit production of Sukhoi Superjet 100 to further gain skills.
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/indian-aviation-sector.77315/page-2#post-1220117
R.K. Tyagi has mentioned an airliner under development, other than Saras. I don't know if it's RTA-70/90 or a new project.

Does somebody know about it?
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/indian-aviation-sector.77315/#post-1215866


Ground tests for indigenous turbofan engine has been completed and integration is underway. Given failures occurred last time, there won't be any hurry in tests.
Are you referring to this? http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...indigenous-passenger-plane/article5574471.ece I guess it is an old news and the latest is this.

http://www.business-standard.com/ar...for-small-passenger-plane-115122300647_1.html
 

Indx TechStyle

War Mongerer
Mod
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
13,358
Likes
26,004
Country flag
By what means you say that? I said it's other than Saras and may or may not be RTA.
Statement comes a couple of days ago (not 2014), means there's an indigenous project underway other than Saras.
Here is the thread where all the info over Indian civil (not strictly) is compiled.
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/indian-aviation-sector.77315/
Dear what are you talking about? This is roughly one year old news. (And this link is unrelated to your previous one.)
For this link:
https://m.lenta.ru/news/2016/10/12/ka226t/


And for indigenous aircraft:
http://m.economictimes.com/news/def...al-chairman-rk-tyagi/articleshow/54782611.cms
As per the latest news, HAL will do joint production of MS-21, Il-114 or some similar aircraft and an indigenous one is planned to be in service in less a decade as well.

Now, honestly say, you opened the links or just responded on my statements?:biggrin2:
 

Certified Gipsy

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2016
Messages
93
Likes
115
^^

The two links are not related to each other, except for the fact that they try to answer your questions & doubts . Since you had mentioned Mr. Tyagi's comments on a passenger jet, it reminded my of a book mark that I had on his plans for a passenger jet when he was the chairman and shared it with you.

Even in the link that you just shared as latest, Tyagi is probably referring to the same project in the Hindu story when he says preliminary studies have already been done.

The reason I shared the second link was to answer your question if it was RTA 70. The business standard link clearly mentions that it is NOT RTA 70 and that the RTA project has been scrapped due to funding issues.

The recent statement from Mr. Tyagi is a mere RECOMMENDATION / SUGGESTION to the students in the university where he received his Hon doctorate and / or current HAL chairman and/or the govt. I do not think it can be taken as an update. The last reliable and official update was that HAL is looking for a foreign partner as mentioned in my second link.

Regarding Ilushin's offer, I do not think this is in any way related to HAL's original plans. As per original plan, they are trying to design and build a 70 seater passenger jet, with some foreign collaboration. Whereas, this new offer is a proposal by Russia to set up a production line in India for their 52 seater. http://www.ruaviation.com/news/2016/8/23/6594/?h I will wait and watch if this is what HAL would use as its foreign partner for their indigenous passenger jet.

Regardless of which foreign country we collaborate, we cannot become self reliant if we do not invest money, energy and all our man power on developing atleast half a dozen, different, reliable jet engines. That is the need of the hour.
 
Last edited:

Certified Gipsy

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2016
Messages
93
Likes
115
Last edited:

Indx TechStyle

War Mongerer
Mod
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
13,358
Likes
26,004
Country flag
^^

The two links are not related to each other, except for the fact that they try to answer your questions & doubts . Since you had mentioned Mr. Tyagi's comments on a passenger jet, it reminded my of a book mark that I had on his plans for a passenger jet when he was the chairman and shared it with you.

Even in the link that you just shared as latest, Tyagi is probably referring to the same project in the Hindu story when he says preliminary studies have already been done.

The reason I shared the second link was to answer your question if it was RTA 70. The business standard link clearly mentions that it is NOT RTA 70 and that the RTA project has been scrapped due to funding issues.

The recent statement from Mr. Tyagi is a mere RECOMMENDATION / SUGGESTION to the students in the university where he received his Hon doctorate and / or current HAL chairman and/or the govt. I do not think it can be taken as an update. The last reliable and official update was that HAL is looking for a foreign partner as mentioned in my second link.

Regarding Ilushin's offer, I do not think this is in any way related to HAL's original plans. As per original plan, they are trying to design and build a 70 seater passenger jet, with some foreign collaboration. Whereas, this new offer is a proposal by Russia to set up a production line in India for their 52 seater. http://www.ruaviation.com/news/2016/8/23/6594/?h I will wait and watch if this is what HAL would use as its foreign partner for their indigenous passenger jet.
Well, my issue was latest update about you said. So, as per the news, MS-21 or Ilyushin 114 for production and another indigenous one which Tyagi mentioned again, could be ready in 5-7 years.
But I didn't remember that I said without foreign collaboration.:confused1: It's obvious in Aviation sector for me.where we still import more than 40% of stuff.
 

armyofhind

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Messages
1,204
Likes
1,667
Country flag
This 25kN is non after burning/base configuration thrust or the take off power. Sepacat Jaguar uses RR-Turbomeca Adour with a non after burning thrust of 22.75 kN. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEPECAT_Jaguar

This engine is more powerful than the current engine in Jaguar IF wiki specifications are correct. We can use two of these engines and try on a jaguar. But IMHO, jaguar needs to GO and we should not waste any more money on them. No other country operates it other than our's. It looks pathetic. May be we can try to play with MiG 21 and Jaguars and convert them into combat UAVs, if we could get the avionics & control right.
So you're advocating retiring the Jaguar because it doesn't LOOK good?
Or because no other country operates them?
 

Certified Gipsy

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2016
Messages
93
Likes
115
So you're advocating retiring the Jaguar because it doesn't LOOK good?
Or because no other country operates them?
Jaguar is already under upgradation. IAF is upgrading 120+ jaguars already under DARIN3 project. http://www.business-standard.com/ar...upgraded-jaguar-darin-iii-112112900079_1.html

It has already planned to phase out these jets by 2030. I just meant that we do not have to spend anymore time and money on this and it should go after the planned duration. It has its own limitations and there is a limit to which we can spend money on upgrading it. India is the only country that has stretched its saturation point with these committed upgrades. Why should we license produce an aircraft and upgrade it with more money, when we can produce our own 4.5 gen jets at the same or even cheaper costs?
 

armyofhind

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Messages
1,204
Likes
1,667
Country flag
Jaguar is already under upgradation. IAF is upgrading 120+ jaguars already under DARIN3 project. http://www.business-standard.com/ar...upgraded-jaguar-darin-iii-112112900079_1.html

It has already planned to phase out these jets by 2030. I just meant that we do not have to spend anymore time and money on this and it should go after the planned duration. It has its own limitations and there is a limit to which we can spend money on upgrading it. India is the only country that has stretched its saturation point with these committed upgrades. Why should we license produce an aircraft and upgrade it with more money, when we can produce our own 4.5 gen jets at the same or even cheaper costs?
No more production of new Jaguars is going on.
Most Jaguars are already at DARIN 3 standard.

The upgrade they are going through is the changing of the engine to the Honeywell.

Producing our own 4.5 gen strike fighters is still some time away.

And if you think the Jaguar is obsolete, then I'll tell you that India has always operated the most advanced variant of the Jaguar anywhere in the world even when they were serving with RAF and Armee Del Air.
My best friend's dad commanded the No. 5 Tuskers and No.16 Cobras squadron and I'll quote him. He said that for its intended role of deep penetration strike, their isn't a better platform for than the Jaguars in the IAF.
perhaps the only aircraft better than it is the Panavia Tornado, and that too because of its variable geometry design.

Coming from someone with more than 10000hrs on the Jaguar and a tenure at TACDE, I'll take his words to be sacrosanct.
 

charlie

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2010
Messages
1,049
Likes
845
Country flag
No more production of new Jaguars is going on.
Most Jaguars are already at DARIN 3 standard.

The upgrade they are going through is the changing of the engine to the Honeywell.

Producing our own 4.5 gen strike fighters is still some time away.

And if you think the Jaguar is obsolete, then I'll tell you that India has always operated the most advanced variant of the Jaguar anywhere in the world even when they were serving with RAF and Armee Del Air.
My best friend's dad commanded the No. 5 Tuskers and No.16 Cobras squadron and I'll quote him. He said that for its intended role of deep penetration strike, their isn't a better platform for than the Jaguars in the IAF.
perhaps the only aircraft better than it is the Panavia Tornado, and that too because of its variable geometry design.

Coming from someone with more than 10000hrs on the Jaguar and a tenure at TACDE, I'll take his words to be sacrosanct.
I think you didn't understand what Certified Gipsy is trying to say.

No doubt Jaguar is a good aircraft and once you take out the nicks in a system it's pretty robust platfrom in case of Jaguar but then Jaguar is at it's last leg and will start getting phased out soon, so is the upgrading cost at the end of life of a system is justifiable ?

One more thing I would like to add the Certified Gipsy missed is upgrading has it's own set of problems now those have to sorted out too, rarely I have seen an upgrade without any issue.
 

HariPrasad-1

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2016
Messages
6,130
Likes
9,205
Country flag
Saras is a flaw right from the drawing board, it has design issue so probably further research on Saras may have been scrapped.

What happened to our desi engine on our Nirbhay CM :yuno:
We are at a stage where we can rectify all those flaws and make it a worthy plane. What we need is an aggressive perusal of the program.
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top