How come Indian women started wearing veils to cover their faces?

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Vikramjeet

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It was refreshing experience to see so many Indian youths interested about things like Civilization and Culture and do know a lot about the field. Since this forum has lot of such posters, I would like to know about this. In world, only two societies in modern times seem to use veils for covering faces-Islamic and Indian( North) . Ofcourse, this is interesting to know how this thing appeared among Indians. Usual reaction is Islamic influence but Islamic influence did not cause

1. Change in scripts of Hindus

2. Change in languages and even vocabulary.

3. Change in devotion towards Gods and idol worship

So how come Hindus who preserved their religion, languages, scripts etc. adopted veils from Muslims? Also, Rajasthan was ruled by Muslims much less than North Karanataka and Telangana yet I see veils in Rajasthan but none in South. Looking forward to answers from you all as to how Indian women started this



Thanks in advance.
 

ezsasa

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As far as I know, women in my family were following "goshah" till about 70's. My family is from Krishna district of Andhra Pradesh.

Goshah is different from purdah by total segregation of women and their visibility outside of family members and especially male outsiders. Women don't wear veils but segregated by cloth partitions and curtains etc.

As a kid I used to hear stories that if women folk of the family wanted to go to movie, there are special preparations at the theatre where in there will be a covered walkway for them to walk in will be created and nobody will be able to see them from outside. They will be seated in the Box.

Thank fully nobody goes thru this now a days.
 

anupamsurey

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the veil system was more prominent in Rajasthani women, than rest of the India. In our Parts like Hyderabad-karnataka i haven't seen a Hindu lady wearing a veil (except the modern day girls who cover their entire body including fingers to prevent darkening of skin-just like egyptian mummies).
but the basic Idea was the same as islamic Idea...to deter lustful eyes of monarchs and others. even the sati had the same line of thought, it was deemed better to die with husbands body than to be raped by army of conquering kings.
 

sorcerer

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It was refreshing experience to see so many Indian youths interested about things like Civilization and Culture and do know a lot about the field. Since this forum has lot of such posters, I would like to know about this. In world, only two societies in modern times seem to use veils for covering faces-Islamic and Indian( North) . Ofcourse, this is interesting to know how this thing appeared among Indians. Usual reaction is Islamic influence but Islamic influence did not cause

1. Change in scripts of Hindus

2. Change in languages and even vocabulary.

3. Change in devotion towards Gods and idol worship

So how come Hindus who preserved their religion, languages, scripts etc. adopted veils from Muslims? Also, Rajasthan was ruled by Muslims much less than North Karanataka and Telangana yet I see veils in Rajasthan but none in South. Looking forward to answers from you all as to how Indian women started this



Thanks in advance.
What make you think that a change of norm should change the default thats in religion. HIndutva doesnt have a prescription for clothes and fashion..You can adapt, adopt of opt out.

You are trying hard to painfully paint a sickular point but tarnish the image of Hindutva at the same time..
Nice dance!!

It was refreshing experience to see so many Indian youths interested about things like Civilization and Culture and do know a lot about the field. Since this forum has lot of such posters, I would like to know about this.
For your sterotyping:

The term purdah, meaning "curtain," is used to describe the traditional seclusion of women in the Middle East and parts of Southeast Asia. It is particularly linked with Muslim and Hindu society, although in areas where these religions are a heavy influence, sex segregation is observed by people of all creeds. Purdah has been the subject of fascination and debate for centuries, with some people supporting the concept, while others are rigorously opposed to it, arguing that purdah is used as a tool for the suppression of women.


There are a number of reasons why purdah may have become so common in Southeast Asia and the Middle East. Although it is linked with the spread of Islam, historical evidence suggests that the sexes were separated long before the period of Muslim conquest in the region, and similar traditions of isolation around the world make it impossible for Islam alone to be responsible for purdah. Purdah rules may stem from a desire to control and protect women, and from traditions where men and women have very distinct and separate roles. Purdah is also about the manipulation and show of power to some extent, as only wealthy people can afford to have separate women's quarters, for example, or to isolate their women so that they do not have to come into contact with society.
 

Vikramjeet

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@sorcerer

What is meaning of this



"The term purdah, meaning "curtain," is used to describe the traditional seclusion of women in the Middle East and parts of Southeast Asia. It is particularly linked with Muslim and Hindu society, although in areas where these religions are a heavy influence, sex segregation is observed by people of all creeds. Purdah has been the subject of fascination and debate for centuries, with some people supporting the concept, while others are rigorously opposed to it, arguing that purdah is used as a tool for the suppression of women.


There are a number of reasons why purdah may have become so common in Southeast Asia and the Middle East. Although it is linked with the spread of Islam, historical evidence suggests that the sexes were separated long before the period of Muslim conquest in the region, and similar traditions of isolation around the world make it impossible for Islam alone to be responsible for purdah. Purdah rules may stem from a desire to control and protect women, and from traditions where men and women have very distinct and separate roles. Purdah is also about the manipulation and show of power to some extent, as only wealthy people can afford to have separate women's quarters, for example, or to isolate their women so that they do not have to come into contact with society."


This is no answer and seems to be directly copied from some site. My question remains unanswered.
 
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sorcerer

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^^

I thought you would be able to comprehend the meaning of it.
If you coud understand simple issues and put it on debate with a complex twist..then such a simple paragraph is more than easy for you to understand.
 

Vikramjeet

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^^

I thought you would be able to comprehend the meaning of it.
If you coud understand simple issues and put it on debate with a complex twist..then such a simple paragraph is more than easy for you to understand.
What you quoted says that there is no reason to associate veils only with spread of Islam. Anyway, forgive my ignorance and please be more clear.
 

sorcerer

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What you quoted says that there is no reason to associate veils only with spread of Islam. Anyway, forgive my ignorance and please be more clear.
Absolutely.. By the look of your posts..I thought you like to catch fishes in murky waters.. I just made it a sport!
 

Vikramjeet

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Absolutely.. By the look of your posts..I thought you like to catch fishes in murky waters.. I just made it a sport!
You thought wrong man. I kill fishes by drowning them in water itself, i do not catch them either in murky or clear water at all.:rofl:
 
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Jatt.Hindustan

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Because muslims would try to molest even dead bodies of women, hence sati and johar.

Such an obvious question, when the counter offensive againdt the rakshas melech began guru amardas ji banned the veil.
 

Jatt.Hindustan

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@sorcerer

What is meaning of this



"The term purdah, meaning "curtain," is used to describe the traditional seclusion of women in the Middle East and parts of Southeast Asia. It is particularly linked with Muslim and Hindu society, although in areas where these religions are a heavy influence, sex segregation is observed by people of all creeds. Purdah has been the subject of fascination and debate for centuries, with some people supporting the concept, while others are rigorously opposed to it, arguing that purdah is used as a tool for the suppression of women.


There are a number of reasons why purdah may have become so common in Southeast Asia and the Middle East. Although it is linked with the spread of Islam, historical evidence suggests that the sexes were separated long before the period of Muslim conquest in the region, and similar traditions of isolation around the world make it impossible for Islam alone to be responsible for purdah. Purdah rules may stem from a desire to control and protect women, and from traditions where men and women have very distinct and separate roles. Purdah is also about the manipulation and show of power to some extent, as only wealthy people can afford to have separate women's quarters, for example, or to isolate their women so that they do not have to come into contact with society."


This is no answer and seems to be directly copied from some site. My question remains unanswered.
Ok, but that whole answer comes from semetic culture and abrahamic civilization where marriage is a temporary status.

This whole control women nonsense is because goris ajd now mid eastern women are foing barren, so they look to India.

Also due to inbreeding they have messed up genes, what does it have to do eith us?

Zorastrianism is theboldest semetic religion amd it is literally worship of the Asurs who battled the devtas.
 
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sorcerer

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You thought wrong man. I kill fishes by drowning them in water itself, i do not catch them either in murky or clear water at all.:rofl:
Drowning fishes...wow!! thats a new thing..
It explains your logic very well at times. NO wonder you contradict yourself so much..
Whatever you are smoking is awesome..man!!!
 

Simple_Guy

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Obviously veils have been around a long time.

Some kind of purdah was certainly observed by women of aristocratic classes, as Kautilya refers to women who were Anishkasini i.e. "not stirring out." Other Sanskrit works have references to restricted harems, variously known as avarodha and antahpura. Even in Rajasthan veil and purdah were for warrior community or those who were wealthy, and not others.

Modesty was considered a capital virtue among women, and we have allusions to veiled faces. Sakuntala fees bashful to go near elders in company with her husband, it is sheer modesty which restrains her from appearing before elders in the presence of her husband, and hence her veil. When out of her house, she covered her body with a shawl, or some such other mantle, and put on a veil.

Life in the Gupta Age
 

Jatt.Hindustan

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They adopted it as well as marriage at night was due to muslims trying to molest women. Ask around yourself
 

tarunraju

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I think Nehru's analysis of veiled Hindu women in The Discovery of India is quite accurate. It started with the advent of Muslim rule. Hindus used veils to protect their women from being taken as sex-slaves by Muslims. Before Muslim rule, women were quite liberal with their clothing.
 

Simple_Guy

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Muslim molesters used to go blind at night. And they were scared of loud music and drunk people.

That is why the customs of band-baja, heavy drinking and rich food in marriages started from those times. Ask around yourself.
 

Ray

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Is this what is being termed as veil? ghoonghat (ghunghat or jhund)?

I was told that it was a form to show respect to elder males of the extended family and that in desert areas of India, the ghungat is used to keep sand from blowing onto the face.
 

Ray

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Women and life through the veil

From repression to fashion statement; from demeaning to determining superiority; from shame to pride, and from sexlessness to a latent sexiness — the veil leaves a confusing trail!

When the women of a village in Haryana threw off their veils, they discarded centuries of subjugation with this one act.The odhni covering the heads robbed them of their identity, hindered movement and reinforced myths of patriarchal dominance and female inferiority.With one flick of the wrist, all myths came fluttering down, and the women of Dhani Miya Khan village allowed the sun and breeze to touch their free, unveiled faces. Not bothered by the jeers of men from neighbouring villages, these bravehearts had started a monumental movement, throwing aside the thin layer that segregated them from the rest of the world.

Giving a sense of rightness to the movement is the fact that India had no tradition of purdah till the Muslim invasions. Nor do Hindu scriptures prescribe any code of dress. So, it is an intrusion that the women discarded, not their culture or religion.

Indeed the veil, which signifies social distancing, trails a fascinating trajectory across cultures, countries and religions and has been rife with varying, often confusing symbolism. Depending on where you live and your social standing, head coverings and veils swing the entire spectrum from being considered a regressive symbol of female segregation and oppression, to symbolising social standing and status. If some communities have used the veil to subjugate women, royalty across cultures has been using head covering as a symbol of status, which lifts them above the commoners.

Then again, whereas most Westerners consider a veil limiting, they have also adopted it as a fashion statement! From Jil Sanders' veiled beanie and Alexander McQueen's aviator version of a veil, to simple pieces of black tulle arranged seductively around a hat, veils have managed to create mystique and the standoffish mood that men so love in women. In fact the latest in dressing are "leg veils" - sheer skirts fashioned out of see-through nets and laces.

Moreover, the world believes the veil robs a woman of her identity, but Muslims proudly consider it an announcement of their religious identity. With such contradictions abounding, France's ban on face covering or veils was naturally open to diametrically opposed interpretations through Western and Eastern perspectives.

Across cultures, the veil has been used to save a woman from a man's lascivious gaze, and yet a veiled woman arouses a man's curiosity and interest. Glimpses through a veil tantalise men more than an uncovered face or body. Most of the world sees the veil as dehumanising, while those who wear it see it as a symbol of piety and purity.

Many religions demand that the head be covered in places of worship. Some orders of nuns wear a headdress; Mother Mary too is depicted with her head covered. Muslim men wear skullcaps inside mosques. In Hindu temples and in gurdwaras, it is mandatory to cover the head as a mark of respect to God. In North India, women are told that covering the head is a mark of respect towards elders.

Brides and grooms cover their heads for the wedding ceremony. Christian brides also cover their heads with a veil. However in South India, which escaped the devastating attacks North India faced, the veil is almost non-existent, and for a bride to cover her head is sacrilegious.

Veils and head coverings have, of course, been used for practical and social reasons too. In some places, veils protect the face and hair from sand and heat or the extremities of cold. Veils were even used effectively to announce the marital status of women. Snoods (fitted net material worn to gather hair neatly) were worn by unmarried women in Middle Ages in Scotland and parts of England.

Today, some footballers wear snoods to keep long hair in check. In hotels, chefs and kitchen staff are expected to wear head coverings for hygiene factors.

From repression to fashion statement; from demeaning to determining superiority; from shame to pride - the veil does leave a confusing trail. The only thing that makes perfect sense is that the donning or discarding of the veil should be completely the woman's prerogative, with nobody dictating to her what she should, or should not wear.
Women and life through the veil - TOI Blogs
 
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Simple_Guy

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royalty across cultures has been using head covering as a symbol of status, which lifts them above the commoners.
The warriors and kings were alpha-males who would not permit their women mixing up with commoners. Exceptions were granted sometimes like in Tanjore (Tamil Nadu):

In 1907, three of the Ranis were still living in the palace at Tanjore. It is recorded by the Marchioness of Dufferin that, when the Viceroy visited the Tanjore palace in 1886 to speak with the Ranis, he was admitted behind the purdah. "The ladies had not expected him, and were not dressed out in their best, and no one could speak any intelligible language. However, a sort of chattering went on, and they made signs towards a chair, which, being covered with crimson cloth, Dufferin thought he was to sit down on. He turned and was just about to do so, when he thought he saw a slight movement, and he fancied there might be a little dog there, when two women pulled the cloth open, and there was the old rani."
 
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