We, Jews, have a legal, moral, religious, historic and ancestral right to live in our land - the land of Israel, with our capital: Jerusalem.Hot Property - Israel/Palestine
Sometimes I think the Jews go overboard. Profligate excesses often recoil.
On the 'Jewish settler' issue in 'Palestine'. Comments and opinions welcome.
We, Jews, have a legal, moral, religious, historic and ancestral right to live in our land - the land of Israel, with our capital: Jerusalem.
No one and nothing can take it or change it.
I only bothered watching the first 10 seconds of the video you posted as I've heard all that crap too many times before.
Instead of hearing just the extreme-irrelevant-left-distorted side of the story, I went and read the corresponding articles:
Sheikh Jarrah neighborhood tense again | Israel Palestine-Gaza Conflict | Jerusalem Post
Settlers take over east Jerusalem home - Israel News, Ynetnews
In it, it is simply and clearly stated: “armed with a court order that named them as the property's owners,” which translates - this is 100% sanctioned by law.
End of discussion.
Qedem in Hebrew means = ancient.I do not dispute your right to live in Yerushalayeem qedem,
And who appointed you judge, jury and executioner?I dispute the means you take to acquire it.
Because you asked, I went and did my homework on the journalists who made the video, aka a “journeyman documentary”:You may want to watch the video in its entirety before launching on an invective. It shows both sides of the dispute. This is not an Arab video, it is a journeyman documentary.
How nice of you to degrade and insult our top-notch legal system, a routinely left-leaning, dovish, peace-loving legal system by calling them “settler courts”. Just admit it and say it with me:There are very clear cases of settler courts positing a political, rather than a purely legal judgment, including in instances when the 'evictee' possesses all manner of land documents, title deeds, etc.
And he’s 100% right. They should stop whining and start working. They should stop playing the refugee card çãùåú nrg - AND THE WORLD PAYS and start integrating themselves into their host-country. Be it Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq or Israel.There is also the corresponding question of why thousands of Palestinians, who claim to hold title deeds to property inside Israel, are not allowed to obtain court redressal, to which Andy David, representative of the Israeli foreign ministry's only response is: "there was a war", "and I think that it's also time for people to stop whining, you know".
Nope.Surely you realize that that statement implicitly conveys that the legal process is being superceded by the political.
The people of Israel spoke very clearly in the last elections when they voted for a clear, strong and stable right wing majority. This trend hasn’t changed, unlike in the US where Obama is losing ground, and losing it fast. What you now describe are naïve left-wing dreams and hopes for a “peace process” or yet another Annapolis.Surely, also, you recognize that when your own own allies in the States and the European Union arraign the decision to demolish the homes of some 100 families in Selwan as being "unhelpful to the peace process" or "against the spirit of Annapolis", you ignore international opinion, perhaps somewhat self-defeatingly in the long run.
Of course they are biased. But why should you know, or for that matter, care?Surely you do not accuse the states of the European Union of being "biased".
So what else is new?Surely you recognize that despite the one hundred-odd homes the municipalities demolish every year, people still keep coming back,
We, the Jewish people, lived in Israel more than a thousand years before either Christ of Muhammad - so don’t give me that crap.that despite your more longitudinal and protracted claim to "moral, religious, historic and ancestral" right to commorancy, the Arabs have a similar claim by virtue of the fact of their existence there since the 7th century,
I had to look-up the word “shibboleth” in wiki to understand your meaning, since I knew only the literal meaning of the word in Hebrew. Shibboleth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediathat you have to live side-by-side with the Arabs in the long run, and that the shibboleth of 'we are the chosen ones' seems to us, a manifestation of patent arrogance.
Qedem in Hebrew means = ancient.
If you were going for a “Holy Jerusalem” in Hebrew, it would be: “Yerushalayim Hakdosha”.
And who appointed you judge, jury and executioner?
Because you asked, I went and did my homework on the journalists who made the video, aka a “journeyman documentary”:
Journeyman Pictures : about us : About Us
They are some British folk who think they know something about fair journalism. That’s all well and good but that doesn’t change my mind about this video - not 1 inch.
How nice of you to degrade and insult our top-notch legal system, a routinely left-leaning, dovish, peace-loving legal system by calling them “settler courts”. Just admit it and say it with me:
“I know nothing about the Israeli legal system, nor do I wish to know” and “I understand little of the Hebrew language, nor do I wish to know”, before you slander Israel as a true Western Democracy.
Let me ask you this Mr. Rage, where are the whining Jews, those who were left alive after the destruction of 6 million of them, not 3-4 years before the founding of the state of Israel and the war of Israel’s independence, hmm?
Where are the 800,000 whining Jews who were expelled from all Arab lands after and because of the establishment of the state of Israel, and today comprise 60% of it’s Jewish population, hmm, Mr. Rage?
As said: I live in a DEMOCRATIC country where there is a clear-cut desperation of politics and the rule of law, and where discrimination and racism are fought against, no matter where they are found.
The people of Israel spoke very clearly in the last elections when they voted for a clear, strong and stable right wing majority. This trend hasn’t changed, unlike in the US where Obama is losing ground, and losing it fast. What you now describe are naïve left-wing dreams and hopes for a “peace process” or yet another Annapolis.
Arabs never were and never will be interested in a true peace with the only country of the Jews.
That, my friend, is a fact.
You need to understand a few more things:
1. We want peace - but not “at all costs”. Security is one of our top priorities.
2. We already offered them 96% of the land in question, which the Philistines refused - not missed a single opportunity to miss every opportunity possible for peace.
3. We will not accept any new “pre-negotiation terms”. If they want peace let them come and start negotiating for it - here and now!
We strongly believe that if they give us peace we will give them peace. A fair trade. And if they don’t - it’s their problem, not ours.
End of discussion.
Of course they are biased. But why should you know, or for that matter, care?
The European Union serves the interests first and foremost of the European Union. And what is more important, a tiny country with a mere 7 million people of the gratitude of 250+ million Arabs and the entirety of the “non-aligned countries”? You think that petro-dollars don’t speak the same language to the European Union? You think that after what happened in the second World War there is no more anti-Semitism to be found anywhere in the European Union?
Take it from me Rage as I know exactly what I’m talking about for I have a stake in it’s outcome.
So what else is new?
I live in an apartment building with my family, just like most of my Israeli neighbors.
They, on the other hand do not.
They steal Israeli-owned lands and build super-cheap cottages and ground level grandiose homes for themselves, entirely disregarding the law and in fact spitting in the face of the law. They do not pay their taxes yet they enjoy all the comforts of living in a western society. They do not serve three years in my army even though it is 100% mandatory by law of any Jew living in Israel to do so.
When finally the oh-so-slow wheels of the law turn, they come crying to a sympathetic British-Journalist ear.
The courts of law in my land, which I’ll have you know are highly respected across the world, have said their piece - and enough said already.
We, the Jewish people, lived in Israel more than a thousand years before either Christ of Muhammad - so don’t give me that crap.
shibboleth: common refrain, catchword, often with little relevance or meaning
We do not see ourselves as “the chosen ones”. If fact, I am not a religious or practicing Jew, but I am a proud Zionist.
We are exactly like any other people on this planet: unique. We suffered and we’ll continue to suffer for our differences, but that is part of being a Jew.
Long Live Israel.
Posting the words of "Uri Avnery" is exactly the same as posting the words of Osama Bin Laden: they are two extremes who represent fringe minority groups in their respective countries and who hold no credence whatsoever with anyone in power nor in the majority of the populace. The only difference is, apart from the obvious, that he is "for terror" while the other is "for peace". Do notice the quotation marks.www.outlookindia.com | Betrayed By Obama
View From Israel
Betrayed By Obama
As high as the hopes were then, so deep is the disappointment now. Worse, the Obama administration has shown by its actions and omissions that it is not really different from the administration of George W. Bush.
MAHMOUD ABBAS is fed up. The other day he withdrew his candidacy for the coming presidential election in the Palestinian Authority.
I understand him.
He feels betrayed. And the traitor is Barack Obama.
A YEAR ago, when Obama was elected, he aroused high hopes in the Muslim world, among the Palestinian people as well as in the Israeli peace camp.
At long last an American president who understood that he had to put an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, not only for the sake of the two peoples, but mainly for the US national interests. This conflict is largely responsible for the tidal waves of anti-American hatred that sweep the Muslim masses from ocean to ocean.
Everybody believed that a new era had begun. Instead of the Clash of Civilizations, the Axis of Evil and all the other *****ic but fateful slogans of the Bush era, a new approach of understanding and reconciliation, mutual respect and practical solutions.
Nobody expected Obama to exchange the unconditional pro-Israeli line for a one-sided pro-Palestinian attitude. But everybody thought that the US would henceforth adopt a more even-handed approach and push the two sides towards the Two-State Solution. And, no less important, that the continuous stream of hypocritical and sanctimonious blabbering would be displaced by a determined, vigorous, non-provocative but purposeful policy.
As high as the hopes were then, so deep is the disappointment now. Nothing of all these has come about. Worse: the Obama administration has shown by its actions and omissions that it is not really different from the administration of George W. Bush.
FROM THE first moment it was clear that the decisive test would come in the battle of the settlements.
It may seem that this is a marginal matter. If peace is to be achieved within two years, as Obama’s people assure us, why worry about another few houses in the settlements that will be dismantled anyway? So there will be a few thousand settlers more to resettle. Big deal.
But the freezing of the settlements has an importance far beyond its practical effect. To return to the metaphor of the Palestinian lawyer: “We are negotiating the division of a pizza, and in the meantime, Israel is eating the pizza.”
The American insistence on freezing the settlements in the entire West Bank and East Jerusalem was the flag of Obama’s new policy. As in a Western movie, Obama drew a line in the sand and declared: up to here and no further! A real cowboy cannot withdraw from such a line without being seen as yellow.
That is precisely what has now happened. Obama has erased the line he himself drew in the sand. He has given up the clear demand for a total freeze. Binyamin Netanyahu and his people announced proudly - and loudly - that a compromise had been reached, not, God forbid, with the Palestinians (who are they?) but with the Americans. They have allowed Netanyahu to build here and build there, for the sake of “Normal Life”, “Natural Increase”, “Completing Unfinished Projects” and other transparent pretexts of this kind. There will not be, of course, any restrictions in Jerusalem, the Undivided Eternal Capital of Israel. In short, the settlement activity will continue in full swing.
To add insult to injury, Hillary Clinton troubled herself to come to Jerusalem in person in order to shower Netanyahu with unctuous flattery. There is no precedent to the sacrifices he is making for peace, she fawned.
That was too much even for Abbas, whose patience and self-restraint are legendary. He has drawn the consequences.
“TO UNDERSTAND all is to forgive all,” the French say. But in this case, some things are hard to forgive.
Certainly, one can understand Obama. He is engaged in a fight for his political life on the social front, the battle for health insurance. Unemployment continues to rise. The news from Iraq is bad, Afghanistan is quickly turning into a second Vietnam. Even before the award ceremony, the Nobel Peace Prize looks like a joke.
Perhaps he feels that the time is not ripe for provoking the almighty pro-Israel lobby. He is a politician, and politics is the art of the possible. It would be possible to forgive him for this, if he admitted frankly that he is unable to realize his good intentions in this area for the time being.
But it is impossible to forgive what is actually happening. Not the scandalous American treatment of the Goldstone report. Not the loathsome behaviour of Hillary in Jerusalem. Not the mendacious talk about the “restraint” of the settlement activities. The more so as all this goes on with total disregard of the Palestinians, as if they were merely extras in a musical.
Not only has Obama given up his claim to a complete change in US policy, but he is actually continuing the policy of Bush. And since Obama pretends to be the opposite of Bush, this is double treachery.
Abbas reacted with the only weapon he has at his command: the announcement that he will leave public life.
THE AMERICAN policy in the “Wider Middle East” can be compared to a recipe in a cookbook: “Take five eggs, mix with flour and sugar…
In real life: Take a local notable, give him the paraphernalia of government, conduct “free elections”, train his security forces, turn him into a subcontractor.
This is not an original recipe. Many colonial and occupation regimes have used it in the past. What is so special about its use by the Americans is the “democratic” props for the play. Even if a cynical world does not believe a word of it, there is the audience back home to think about.
That is how it was done in the past in Vietnam. How Hamid Karzai was chosen in Afghanistan and Nouri Maliki in Iraq. How Fouad Siniora has been kept in Lebanon. How Muhammad Dahlan was to be installed in the Gaza Strip (but was at the decisive moment forestalled by Hamas.) In most of the Arab countries, there is no need for this recipe, since the established regimes already satisfy the requirements.
Abbas was supposed to fill this role. He bears the title of President, he was elected fairly, an American general is training his security forces. True, in the following parliamentary elections his party was soundly beaten, but the Americans just ignored the results and the Israelis imprisoned the undesirable Parliamentarians. The show must go on.
BUT ABBAS is not satisfied with being the egg in the American recipe.
I first met him 26 years ago. After the first Lebanon War, when we (Matti Peled, Ya’acov Arnon and I) went to Tunis to meet Yasser Arafat, we saw Abbas first. That was the case every time we came to Tunis after that. Peace with Israel was the “desk” of Abbas.
Conversations with him were always to the point. We did not become friends, as with Arafat. The two were of very different temperament. Arafat was an extrovert, a warm person who liked personal gestures and physical contact with the people he talked with. Abbas is a self-contained introvert who prefers to keep people at a distance.
From the political point of view, there is no real difference. Abbas is continuing the line laid down by Arafat in 1974: a Palestinian state within the pre-1967 borders, with East Jerusalem as its capital. The difference is in the method. Arafat believed in his ability to influence Israeli public opinion. Abbas limits himself to dealings with rulers. Arafat believed that he had to keep in his arsenal all possible means of struggle: negotiations, diplomatic activity, armed struggle, public relations, devious manoeuvres. Abbas puts everything in one basket: peace negotiations.
Abbas does not want to become a Palestinian Marshal Petain. He does not want to head a local Vichy regime. He knows that he is on a slippery slope and has decided to stop before it is too late.
I think, therefore, that his intention to leave the stage is serious. I believe his assertion that it is not just a bargaining ploy. He may change his decision, but only if he is convinced that the rules of the game have changed.
OBAMA WAS completely surprised. That has never happened before: an American client, totally dependent on Washington, suddenly rebels and poses conditions. That is exactly what Abbas has done now, when he recognized that Obama is unwilling to fulfill the most basic condition: to freeze the settlements.
From the American point of view, there is no replacement. There are certainly some capable people in the Palestinian leadership, as well as corrupt ones and collaborators. But there is no one who is capable of rallying around him all the West Bank population. The first name that comes up is always Marwan Barghouti, but he is in prison and the Israeli government has already announced that he will not be released even if elected. Also, it is not clear whether he is willing to play that role in the present conditions. Without Abbas, the entire American recipe comes apart.
Netanyahu, too, was utterly surprised. He wants phoney negotiations, devoid of substance, as a camouflage for the deepening of the occupation and enlarging of the settlements. A “Peace process” as a substitute for peace. Without a recognized Palestinian leader, with whom can he “negotiate”?
In Jerusalem, there is still hope that Abbas’ announcement is merely a ploy, that it would be enough to throw him some crumbs in order to change his mind. It seems that they do not really know the man. His self-respect will not allow him to go back, unless Obama awards him a serious political achievement.
From Abbas’ point of view, the announcement of his retirement is the doomsday weapon.
Calling Haaretz a "fringe newspaper" is right on the money: it is an Israeli newspaper which represents %3 of Israelis. If that doesn’t make it into a "fringe newspaper", what does? You do remember that in a Newspaper, as in any money-making company, it’s not a democracy that runs it and chooses the themes and the line it wishes to follow, it’s the owners and the chief editor who have the final say and who dictate the exact policy they want represented in their newspaper - and that’s only logical, won’t you agree?Come on Alon9.....calling Haaretz a "fringe newspaper" is just way over the top.
If Haaretz is really that far out on the "fringe", as you say it is; then I would submit to you that its not Haaretz that is out on the Fringe, but rather the Israeli populace has moved to the fringes of the far-right.
At the rate the Israeli right and Likud is going, you guys are all set to re-create a new apartheid state with Palestinians living in walled cantonments like goats in a farm.
I am no Israel hater and would like to see a strong Israeli-India ties, but I have to say that with the Likud in power, Israel is moving further and further to the right and they are losing the democratic values.
Even American Jews are starting to walk away from Israel.