HJ-8 ATGM used by Syrian rebels

Kunal Biswas

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This thread is not about NAG ATGM nor can be compared as its belong to Heavy class ATGM ..

Baktar Shikan is a medium class ATGM..

If you really looking for comparison then compare Lahat & Kornet which are more qualified here both have penetration of 800mm & 1000mm respectively ..

=======================

NAG has 800mm penetration from old sources ..

The good penetration level would be 1000mm of RHA for a HEAT warhead against modern tanks..

so what is the penetration of nag?

what is good penetration level?
 

shiphone

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there are some members of HJ-8 ATGM family...
the original one : HJ-8A ...and the improved varients : HJ-8C, HJ-8E ,HJ-8L AKD-8(HJ-8B)



except the oldest one(HJ8-A), other models all have the Tandem Warhead fitted. the Noticeable features is the 'long nose' where a small front Charge is arranged. the TOT to Pakistan is the model based on the HJ-8E in PLA service.



note: the above demonstration is a 120mm Rocket grenade(PF98) which has the same structure
---------------------------
BTW...about the Penetration: you'd better understand that the small front charge is for detonating the ERA only and the main Charge accounts.

I can give a data of HJ-8A(1984) here:

Static armor-piercing test: 800 mm RHA
Dynamic armor-piercing test: 180mm/angle of 68 degrees
 
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drkrn

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This thread is not about NAG ATGM nor can be compared as its belong to Heavy class ATGM ..

Baktar Shikan is a medium class ATGM..

If you really looking for comparison then compare Lahat & Kornet which are more qualified here both have penetration of 800mm & 1000mm respectively ..

=======================

NAG has 800mm penetration from old sources ..

The good penetration level would be 1000mm of RHA for a HEAT warhead against modern tanks..
just asked out of interest.disappointed to see that even our heavy class atgm is still insufficient
 

Kunal Biswas

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If you have know about your own country stuff wouldn't ask me on first place, Insufficient or not its would be still useless to argue on with you ..

First know what your own capability then compare with others, 800mm from a tandam warhead is overkill for many modern tanks in this region ..

==============

For your help, Ask @Damian about ATGM capabilities & @ersakthivel about NAG ..


just asked out of interest.disappointed to see that even our heavy class atgm is still insufficient
 
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drkrn

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If you have know about your own country stuff wouldn't ask me on first place, Insufficient or not its would be still useless to argue on with you ..

First know what your own capability then compare with others, 800mm from a tandam warhead is overkill for many modern tanks in this region ..

==============

For your help, Ask @Damian about ATGM capabilities & @ersakthivel about NAG ..
i have zero idea to make a discussion.let alone an argument

you only said 1000 mm is a good one,so i thought its of less use
 
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Kunal Biswas

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800mm is good, +1000mm is better, 800mm is according to old source, we dont know what is the penetration in current models..

you only said 1000 mm is a good one,so i thought its of less use
 

Dazzler

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This thread is not about NAG ATGM nor can be compared as its belong to Heavy class ATGM ..

Baktar Shikan is a medium class ATGM..

If you really looking for comparison then compare Lahat & Kornet which are more qualified here both have penetration of 800mm & 1000mm respectively ..

=======================

NAG has 800mm penetration from old sources ..

The good penetration level would be 1000mm of RHA for a HEAT warhead against modern tanks..


NAG has 2.5 km range as per this source.. Why such low range?


DRDO to conduct Nag missile test trials soon - Times Of India



Kombat ATGM has 800mm+ value


This is laser guided version of baktar shikan,,,,,at IDEAS 2012, sources say penetration is between 800-900 mm

 
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Tshering22

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Has it already been leaked to the black market or are the Chinese selling it to them?

Because as per what China said, they were against the FSA militants and supported Assad.
 

Kunal Biswas

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From your sources, 600mm is wih tandam warhead what you revived from GOCHICOM, In that case it is a degraded version ..

Same warhead comes with laser guided version, Its the same diameter there is no change in warhead, So your ATGM penetration level is at 600mm..

Now, If your GOP exported these to Rebels in middleast they are quite lethal for T-54/55 and T-72 without ERA ..

Baktar Shikan

Anti-tank Guided Missile Weapon System

Baktar Shikan is a second-generation anti-tank missile weapon system which pursues the principle of optical aiming, IR tracking, remotely controlled and wire transmitted guidance signals. The system can quickly be dis-assembled into the following four sub-units, encased missile, tripod, goniometer and control box each weighing not more than 25kg thus making the system man-portable.
It can also be mounted on Cobra attack helicopters and Armored Personnel Carriers (APCs). Its long range, penetration power and a powerful anti-jamming capability form a potent defence against armored targets.
Salient Features

land01
Day & night firing
Anti-ERA capability
Long range
Quick reaction time
High hit probability
Greater penetration
Rapid rate of fire
Anti-jamming capability
Easy operation & maintenance

Range 3,000 m
Hit Probability >90 %
Penetration Probability 90 %
Depth of Penetration 500mm HRA (Homogeneous Rolled Armor)
(Standard Warhead)
Depth of Penetration 600 mm HRA
(Tandem Warhead)

Rate of Fire 2-3 Rds per minute
Mean Flying Speed 220 m/s
Propulsion Solid

:: GIDS - BAKTAR-SHIKAN ::
there are some members of HJ-8 ATGM family...
the original one : HJ-8A ...and the improved varients : HJ-8C, HJ-8E ,HJ-8L AKD-8(HJ-8B)



except the oldest one(HJ8-A), other models all have the Tandem Warhead fitted. the Noticeable features is the 'long nose' where a small front Charge is arranged. the TOT to Pakistan is the model based on the HJ-8E in PLA service.



note: the above demonstration is a 120mm Rocket grenade(PF98) which has the same structure
---------------------------
BTW...about the Penetration: you'd better understand that the small front charge is for detonating the ERA only and the main Charge accounts.

I can give a data of HJ-8A(1984) here:

Static armor-piercing test: 800 mm RHA
Dynamic armor-piercing test: 180mm/angle of 68 degrees
 

shiphone

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United Nations Register of Conventional Arms ----year 2011

United Nations Official Document



--------------------------------
and HJ-8 has many international operators ..some nation got the TOT as well...they might also be the possiable source nation.



in Bolivia



in Malaysia



in Sri lanka HJ8E(above) and HJ-8L(bellow)


-------------------------
in mid-1990s, HJ-8 has got the first kill record during the Yugoslavian Civil War. the victim was M84 tank of Yugoslavian People's Army.



Brigadier Naveed Rahman from Pakistan Armoured Corps disclosed to Kanwa reporter that during the Yugoslavian Civil War, the Bakter Shikan ATM, a Pakistan version of HJ8 made in China, registered very satisfactory battle record. In that war, HJ8/ Bakter Shikan ATM achieved a over 90% of hits rate. This is the first time the Western reporters were informed officially that the HJ8 used in the Yugoslavian Civil War had been imported from Pakistan. Anti-tank expert from DR. A.Q. Khan Research Laboratories told Kanwa reporter that the whole turret of the T84 tank of Serbs has once been blasted off by HJ8/Shikan ATM at a distance of 2000m. But according to Pakistani expert, the shortcomings of HJ8 Series exposed in real field operation include excessive weight, operational requirement of two or more people, the unwieldy supporting stand, and its vulnerability in detecting in battlefield disguise. For this reason, NORINCO has recently developed its HJ8L ATM whose weight has been greatly reduced and structure of supporting stand much simplified.
 

shiphone

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1.all HJ8 varients are wire-guided, no so called
laser guided version
if you mean the HJ-8L('L' stands for 'Light' ,not 'Laser') and the diameter of each varient is the same----120mm

2. some simple clarification about the Penetration:

HJ-8E(1000mm after ERA) = HJ-8L(1000mm after ERA) > HJ-8C(800mm after ERA) > HJ-8A(800mm before ERA)

note: all data are the result of Static armor-piercing test ( the same as AGM-114's 1400 mm claim and TOW2's 1200mm)

the TOT to Pakistan is the model based on the HJ-8E in PLA service.
so called ' 600mm' might be some kind of conversion data of the result of Dynamic armor-piercing test(something like 220mm RHA @68° incidence target in shooting range) or the website put the wrong info on it coz the basic version of HJ-8 has achieved 800mm of RHA at 0° incidence(Static) in 1984 and passed the national Test in the same year.
 
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Kunal Biswas

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Your view contradict to Dazzler views, As said ..

Doubt full regarding such details as other ammo in Pof data based are not calculated in such fashion & so on ..
 

Dazzler

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From your sources, 600mm is wih tandam warhead what you revived from GOCHICOM, In that case it is a degraded version ..

Same warhead comes with laser guided version, Its the same diameter there is no change in warhead, So your ATGM penetration level is at 600mm..

Now, If your GOP exported these to Rebels in middleast they are quite lethal for T-54/55 and T-72 without ERA ..
The army considers 600 m as the verified penetration where ERA is NOT included, it has anti ERA capability as mentioned in the details, however the original range given is 800-1000m for RHA,

you didnt reply my question, why Nag has such a small range?
 
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Dazzler

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Your view contradict to Dazzler views, As said ..

Doubt full regarding such details as other ammo in Pof data based are not calculated in such fashion & so on ..
Their websites have some funny errors usually, the PAC Kamra website was so hilarious that had to shut it down to re-write data, it still has some ridiculous errors :D
 

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