HAL Prachand - Light Combat Helicopter (LCH)

Flying Dagger

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2019
Messages
3,583
Likes
9,441
Country flag
Rafael offer Firefly, Drone Dome
Those have very small range ( 500m -1km ) and weigh 3 kg one can carry its whole system in backpack as they weight 14-15 kg , will be used extensively in urban/ant terror warfare too. They are like small flying bombs.

I don't remember exactly but I think 500 will be procured.
 

Bleh

Laughing member
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
6,175
Likes
25,855
Country flag
I'll take IAF chief statement as proof.
Bro I've throughly searched. I'm not just saying.

DALAL Browne just made a praise hymn 8 years ago.

IAF never actually said "Our Apaches come with Stinger", that the reporters wrote from Wiki. They even displayed the available armaments Hellfire & Hydra during induction. But there was no Stinger.
image.jpg
 

Flying Dagger

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2019
Messages
3,583
Likes
9,441
Country flag
Bro I've throughly searched. I'm not just saying.

DALAL Browne's gave a requirement 8 years ago.

IAF nevet said "Our Apaches came with Stinger". They even displayed the available armaments Hellfire & Hydra during induction. But there was no Stinger.
View attachment 61138
USA has cleared potential sale of 134 stingers for India apart from VL AMRAAM etc in Feb around check that, I think they are a2a role perhaps.
 

Bleh

Laughing member
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
6,175
Likes
25,855
Country flag
USA has cleared potential sale of 134 stingers for India apart from VL AMRAAM etc in Feb around check that, I think they are a2a role perhaps.
1. Never heard of it.

2. Why will we even buy VL-ARAAM, officially called SLAMRAAM (Surface Launched AMRAAM) using AIM-120?.. We have VL-Astra & many other overlapping SAMs ready!
 

WolfPack86

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Messages
10,502
Likes
16,946
Country flag
Light Combat Helicopter being built for Rs 125 crore each, one-third the cost of the Apache – Defence News of India
In a double assertion of its proficiency in building different kinds of helicopters, Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) on Monday achieved two significant landmarks: The company rolled out its 300th Dhruv advanced light helicopter (ALH) for the military; and also conducted the inaugural ground run of the first Light Combat Helicopter (LCH) it is series-producing for the Indian Air Force (IAF).

While the Dhruv, with over 280,000 flying hours logged, is already the backbone of the IAF and army’s light helicopter fleet, the LCH is a crucial new induction that would play an important role in any armed confrontation between Indian and Chinese troops on the Ladakh border, or in the looming militarization of the Line of Actual Control (LAC).



The LCH project was sanctioned after the 1999 Kargil War, when a dire need was felt for a weapons platform that could provide dedicated fire support to army soldiers at high altitudes, who can carry only a limited amount of weaponry. The Ministry of Defence accordingly sanctioned the LCH project in October 2006.

Fourteen years later, the LCH has become a reality. Business Standard learns that HAL has agreed to build the first 15 “limited series production” LCH for about Rs 125 crore per helicopter – about one-third the cost of each of the 28 AH-64E Apaches attack helicopters the government is importing from The Boeing Company.

True, the Apache is a bigger, more heavily armed gunship with more advanced avionics and battle-tested night fighting capabilities. But, for those reasons, it is expensive and the army and IAF will be making up the numbers with LCHs.

The military is still to sign a contract for 15 LCHs, but HAL has decided to start building the helicopters with its own funds. HAL’s board has sanctioned Rs 1,800 crore for this and production is well along.

A key attribute of the 5.8-tonne LCH is its ability to fly and fight at the altitudes the army is deployed at. In tests conducted in the Siachen Glacier sector, the LCH has demonstrated its capability to land and take off at altitudes of 5,000 metres with sufficient fuel and weaponry for combat missions against even higher targets.

Driving this performance is the LCH’s twin Shakti engines, especially designed by French firm, Safran, to deliver extra power at high altitudes.

That makes the LCH an ideal platform for providing infantry soldiers fire support in 15,000-16,000 feet-high contested areas such as Depsang, Galwan and the heights north and south of the Pangong Tso, where Indian soldiers are facing off against Chinese intruders.

The military has already projected to HAL an eventual requirement of 65 LCH for the IAF and 97 for the army.

For such a small, light helicopter, the LCH is a formidable fighting machine. Its two pilots, who are seated one behind the other in a slim tandem cockpit, can choose between a menu of weapons that they fire using a helmet pointing system that lets a pilot aim at a target just by looking at it.

The LCH’s weapons options include a nose-mounted, 20-millimetre turret gun; or 70-millimetre rockets; or air-to-air missiles that it carries on stub wings. The LCH is the first helicopter to fire air-to-air missiles against a flying target.

The LCH is also designed to carry anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs) that can knock out enemy tanks at ranges of up to seven kilometres.

Allowing it to survive on a battlefield where it will be a prized target, the LCH is protected by a range of devices. The pilots are shielded against ground fire by armoured panels around the cockpit and by a bulletproof windshield. The LCH has self-sealing fuel tanks that automatically seal up bullet holes with a rubber compound. It has damage-tolerant rotor blades and a main gearbox that can run for 30 minutes even after a bullet hit drains out all its oil.

The LCH is also fitted with an electronic warfare (EW) system that detects enemy missiles; and then scatters flares and chaff as decoys to lure the incoming missile away from the helicopter.
 

Flying Dagger

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2019
Messages
3,583
Likes
9,441
Country flag
1. Never heard of it.

2. Why will we even buy VL-ARAAM, officially called SLAMRAAM (Surface Launched AMRAAM) using AIM-120?.. We have VL-Astra & many other overlapping SAMs ready!
It's cleared for possible sale to be part of Integrated Air defense of India as we requested for around 1.9 bn dollar deal but not paid from our side yet.

The article says C8 that's 120 D so I think that's the main difference .


VL Astra isn't ready yet . Let's not go hyper like newbies we know it's going to take time..
 

Bleh

Laughing member
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
6,175
Likes
25,855
Country flag
It's cleared for possible sale to be part of Integrated Air defense of India as we requested for around 1.9 bn dollar deal but not paid from our side yet.

The article says C8 that's 120 D so I think that's the main difference .


VL Astra isn't ready yet . Let's not go hyper like newbies we know it's going to take time..
8 moths old news with no further developments.... I don't think I'm super stoked. Especially because of absence of AIM-120 on Air Force related chatter. Possible, yes. But unlikely.

Anyways thanks.
 

Flying Dagger

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2019
Messages
3,583
Likes
9,441
Country flag
8 moths old news with no further developments.... I don't think I'm super stoked. Especially because of absence of AIM-120 on Air Force related chatter. Possible, yes. But unlikely.

Anyways thanks.
There have been updates NASAM is sort of cancelled or put on hold over price and perhaps we will be waiting for USA election to conclude. So that approval is on hold .

Same is going on with the Reaper/Predator drones. But it seems now we are going ahead with 2 each for tri service let's see what happens at end.

But stinger isn't cancelled else IAF would have said it so we are definitely buying them.
 

Longewala

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2016
Messages
1,414
Likes
7,573
Country flag
Looks great and suited for Ladakh at a superficial glance...but I really can't see how Army can accept such a product until it's 100% made in India, 100% availability, carries 20 ATGMs, flies upto 90,000 feet, and is able to repair damage on its own like Terminator, otherwise it's DRDO, Air force, OFB and ITBP ki mili juli saazish to deprive Army once again..

I think HAL should either
A. Transfer the manufacturing and production to Lockheed, so that the helicopter matches Army requirements of being foreign maal ideally at 2x the cost
Or
B. Offer it to Chinese army.
 

Bhadra

Professional
Joined
Jul 11, 2011
Messages
11,991
Likes
23,758
Country flag
Actually No , he was talking abt Dhruva .

Regarding LCH , It was designed for high altitude operation as per army requirements.

All helis these days operate air to air missiles too Mistral , Stinger etc. As they are cost effective measure than sending a Sukhoi to get a drone down.

So it's not like army won't be benefiting from this integration.

Regarding ATGM HAL has clarified that they can integrate Hellfire or Spike whatever Army ask them to. It's. A mess created by MOD Army DRDO and all organisation associated .

In high mountain areas like Siachen where LCH will operate even Apache can't carry its full weapon load. So a configuration of 4 ATGM is good enough for it.

We can buy 4 rail Longbow Launcher for hell fire or Spike until we develop our own but army needs to ask for it.
It is good that LCH can operate in super high-altitude and there four ATGM were good enough before Chinese brought in two Mechanised/ Motorised Divisions in Ladakh. Not now.

And why talk of High altitude ares only. LCH was supposed to be main anti tank aerial platform for low mountains, plains and desrts as also CI/CT operations for the Army. Four ATGM is no way good enough for a single sortie profile in place of eight which is the international norm. Even a compromise of Six ATGM and Two AAM could have been designed for an Army Version. There are many other aspects that LCH would have to incorporate such as its ability to operate integrated with Apaches, Ground ATGM especially APC launched ATGMs etc.

But it seems no attention has been paid to designing this platform for supporting ground operations interacted with Army's ground network and control. Such games can not be played by HAL being in cahoots with IAF. Then the Army will be forced to look outside HAL.
 

Rajaraja Chola

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2016
Messages
754
Likes
2,362
Country flag
Apache's were integrated with Stinger for the A2A role. In fact, the Indian Airforce's one requirement of Apache was anti-helicopter & anti-drone role.


Huh? Who said that? Where did you get that information? we can detect a single weather balloon crossing our boundaries with our radars, after Balakot strike our SPYDER SAM shot down a ScanEagle UAV of Pak Navy infiltrating through Rann of Kutch.


Drones are best-taken care by AA guns, low hanging smaller drones are even vulnerable to rifle or MG fire. Bigger MALE drones are easy prey for MANPADS as well as ground SAM.

The only thing I will be worried about Chinese is their attack helo fleet, not their drone fleet.

All these assumptions about drones were thrown away in the latest Armenian Azerbaijan conflict. They infiltrated an S300 battery. I can just assume the radar was turned ON at that moment it was attacked. Though using drones to attack helis is tough and the drone has to be really really lucky. But high altitude drones are really good where manpads or AA fire can do nothing. Only Akash or Spyder can take them down.
 

Rajaraja Chola

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2016
Messages
754
Likes
2,362
Country flag
It is good that LCH can operate in super high-altitude and there four ATGM were good enough before Chinese brought in two Mechanised/ Motorised Divisions in Ladakh. Not now.

And why talk of High altitude ares only. LCH was supposed to be main anti tank aerial platform for low mountains, plains and desrts as also CI/CT operations for the Army. Four ATGM is no way good enough for a single sortie profile in place of eight which is the international norm. Even a compromise of Six ATGM and Two AAM could have been designed for an Army Version. There are many other aspects that LCH would have to incorporate such as its ability to operate integrated with Apaches, Ground ATGM especially APC launched ATGMs etc.

But it seems no attention has been paid to designing this platform for supporting ground operations interacted with Army's ground network and control. Such games can not be played by HAL being in cahoots with IAF. Then the Army will be forced to look outside HAL.
How tough it is to mount Quad launchers in each wing for LCH? It increases weight, but in low plains it should be able to handle easily. We can have 8 atgm plus rockets.
 

Dessert Storm

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2020
Messages
1,672
Likes
5,862
Country flag
It is good that LCH can operate in super high-altitude and there four ATGM were good enough before Chinese brought in two Mechanised/ Motorised Divisions in Ladakh. Not now.

And why talk of High altitude ares only. LCH was supposed to be main anti tank aerial platform for low mountains, plains and desrts as also CI/CT operations for the Army. Four ATGM is no way good enough for a single sortie profile in place of eight which is the international norm. Even a compromise of Six ATGM and Two AAM could have been designed for an Army Version. There are many other aspects that LCH would have to incorporate such as its ability to operate integrated with Apaches, Ground ATGM especially APC launched ATGMs etc.

But it seems no attention has been paid to designing this platform for supporting ground operations interacted with Army's ground network and control. Such games can not be played by HAL being in cahoots with IAF. Then the Army will be forced to look outside HAL.
Four ATGMs at super-high altitude is good performance. No other combat Heli would carry four at that altitude. International norm as suggested by you ain't for the super high altitude.

"Talk of high altitude only" because that was the primary requirement out of the LCH. Rest is supplementary. Other platforms can be brought to fore in lesser altitudes.
* Would love to have 16 on them.
 

Bleh

Laughing member
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
6,175
Likes
25,855
Country flag
How tough it is to mount Quad launchers in each wing for LCH?
Four ATGMs at super-high altitude is good performance.
Be aware to not fall for any DALAL's misinformation... It was Army itself that deemed 16 ATGMs unnecessary for any single mission. LCH inner pylons are rate for quad ATGM but outer one dual. Max 12.
IMG_20200817_095129 - Copy - Copy.jpg


(Not SANT, that's too big).
 

WolfPack86

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Messages
10,502
Likes
16,946
Country flag
HAL keen to develop IMRH and HCH Helicopter for Armed forces

Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) Designed and manufactured Light Utility Helicopter (LUH) and Light Combat Helicopter (LCH) having been hogging media limelight of late after it completed many critical trials of the machine where they have met or exceeded standards set by the Indian Army and Indian air force and state-owned public sector company is now is engaging with Defence ministry to begin the process to place orders for the same and it’s expected that both LUH and LCH will keep HAL production line busy for next two decades with combined orders expected to exceed 400 units. Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) Top Management is keen to now take up the development of the Next generation of Helicopters to feel in the critical requirements which will be needed in the next two decades by the forces. idrw.org has been informed that HAL has taken the initiative off late to engage with Tri-service for the development of New Helicopters for the Tri-Service and is keen to take necessary feedback before it takes up new helicopter projects. HAL’s Management is keen to make headway in the development of the proposed 12-tonne twin-engine Indian Multi-Role Helicopter (IMRH) for the combined military to replace the large fleet of Russian developed Mi-8/17 fleet which has combined potential for 200+ units. A full-scale Mockup of the IMRH was displayed at Aero India and according to HAL, over the Tri-service variant there will also include a VVIP variant and HAL is closely working with the Armed forces so that the tri-service can agree on the basic flight characters and configuration before tri-service specific variants are developed. According to HAL, the IMRH project cost estimation has been pegged at 10000 crores and HAL is keen to scout for an international partner for the development of a new engine and the tri-service will also have the option of two engines likely sourced from French and the USA. HAL is also exploring the possibility of development of a Heavy Attack Helicopter (HCH) which will be based on the technology developed for the IMRH program. HAL has been watching big tussle going on with the Indian Army Aviation and Indian Air force on the ownership of the American made Boeing AH-64 Apache attack Helicopters. Indian Army finally has been allowed to procure 6 Apache attack helicopter after IAF inducted 22 helicopters of the same type recently but the requirement is for 39 more units which possibly could grow to 100 units combined with the Indian Air force over what already has been procured to replace the aging Mi-35 Hind Helicopters. HAL management has confirmed that the Indian Army or the Indian Air force have not approached them for the development of the Apache class attack helicopter which will have nearly twice the max takeoff weight of the current LCH but the company is keen to explore the possibility of Army or Air force have combined requirements in the future.
 

prateikf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2009
Messages
331
Likes
324
Country flag
Given the fact the present conflict in Nagarno-Karabakh is being decided by drones would that have a role in negating the importance of LCH on the battlefield? Also, how would LCH fare against swarms of enemy drones ?
 

Bleh

Laughing member
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
6,175
Likes
25,855
Country flag
HAL keen to develop IMRH and HCH Helicopter for Armed forces
Why HCH?!.. Due to its sleeker shape & smaller size LCH is as armoured as Apache. More than Mi-35.

To increase the payload at plains, it needs a minor structural reinforcement & a stronger engine (even Dhruv's will do).

Given the fact the present conflict in Nagarno-Karabakh is being decided by drones would that have a role in negating the importance of LCH on the battlefield? Also, how would LCH fare against swarms of enemy drones ?
Barely compares to theirs. Plustoo much of it is propaganda to know the true situation with accuracy.

A drone swarm won't overwhelm a group of LCH with 4 Mistrals each. Plus they are ideal for use against helos.
Against ground targets, they will be effective (some members here are being far too happy because we shot down a few lone Paki surveillance drones)... AAA can't stop a whole swarm nor can drone jammers spoof all of them, not within time. It might call for IronDome like F&F very short range massed-missiles to worse volley the drone would be easy targets.
 

abingdonboy

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Messages
8,039
Likes
33,579
Country flag
It is good that LCH can operate in super high-altitude and there four ATGM were good enough before Chinese brought in two Mechanised/ Motorised Divisions in Ladakh. Not now.

And why talk of High altitude ares only. LCH was supposed to be main anti tank aerial platform for low mountains, plains and desrts as also CI/CT operations for the Army. Four ATGM is no way good enough for a single sortie profile in place of eight which is the international norm. Even a compromise of Six ATGM and Two AAM could have been designed for an Army Version. There are many other aspects that LCH would have to incorporate such as its ability to operate integrated with Apaches, Ground ATGM especially APC launched ATGMs etc.

But it seems no attention has been paid to designing this platform for supporting ground operations interacted with Army's ground network and control. Such games can not be played by HAL being in cahoots with IAF. Then the Army will be forced to look outside HAL.
The LCH can carry 4 ATGM at high altitudes and 8 (2 per pylon) at lower levels

There is also the possibility of increasing this to 12 in the future as the inner pylons can be used for 4 ATGM launchers which are yet to be tested for HELINA or SANT.
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top