HAL Light Combat Helicopter (LCH)

Bleh

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EW has been made by BEL and DRDO whereas spike can be replaced by dhruvastra and SANT. Rockets will be also developed locally too.
As I said, they'll follow the main platform. Not precede.

And rockets would be the easiest to develop/derive, but as far as I know India has not planned on making any. I think importing them is cheaper than developing our own. Maybe. Not sure.
 

Bhadra

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Compare the cost of ALH like capable helicopter vs the same in international market and how much job that imported product will create in India .
While we can get a Dhruv at less than 5 mn a piece an imported one will cost 10-15 mn with additional expense on repair and longer downtime .

Even with imported content we have a advantage here as IPR belongs to us and we are step by step replacing the imported systems. The content is around 40% and with 1200 kw under dev engine once in production we will be able to raise it by 60-70% in terms of cost.

So over all a direct saving of 50-60% plus half of the remaining coming back into economy and not just creating job but high end product line.
We are talking about LCH.

First of all the project has been screwed by IAF by giving ASQR that only suits the IAF in carrying out the IAF tasks and Army specific task and specifications related to those have been sabotaging by commission.
This conspiracy has seemed to have been actively aided by the Air marshall in HAL.

Not integrating ATGMs and catering for only four ATGM instead of normally eight itself weakens the platform for Army Aviation tasks. CAS should have the focus of any version but it is everything else but CAS platform...

Now that the plains of Ladakh are all littered up with tanks and ICV/ A Vehicle platforms such as SP guns, developing such a platform only for UAV hunting is absolutely ridiculous and a pre planned sabotage.
IAF opposed Army owning Apacahes and now it has sabotages LCH - someone has to put their feet down..

How can IA order this platform and for what when it is designed for kite flying.
 

aerokan

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"The LCH’s weapons options include a nose-mounted, 20-millimetre turret gun; or 70-millimetre rockets; or air-to-air missiles that it carries on stub wings. The LCH is the first helicopter to fire air-to-air missiles against a flying target. "

What missiles are we looking at here?
 

FOXBAT ALOK

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HAL Roll Out 1st Light combat helicopter LSP with Improve Aerodynamic
source : https://defenceview.in/hal-roll-out-1st-light-combat-helicopter-lsp-with-improve-aerodynamic/


Good News HAL (Hindustan aerospace limited) started the ground run of The first Light Combat Helicopter limited series production yesterday in Bengaluru.

In a double assertion of its proficiency in building different kinds of helicopters, Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) on Monday achieved two significant landmarks: The company rolled out its 300th Dhruv advanced light helicopter (ALH) for the military; and also conducted the inaugural ground run of the first Light Combat Helicopter (LCH) it is series-producing for the Indian Air Force (IAF).


Read Here the full details of HAL LCH : Light Combat Helicopter Of India
FIRST ON LIVEFIST: The first Light Combat Helicopter limited series production (LCH-LSP) airframe on on its first ground run yesterday in Bengaluru. https://t.co/XmT9EXYIZW pic.twitter.com/etzKkB8HFt
— Livefist (@livefist) September 30, 2020


While the Dhruv, with over 280,000 flying hours logged, is already the backbone of the IAF and army’s light helicopter fleet, the LCH is a crucial new induction that would play an important role in any armed confrontation between Indian and Chinese troops on the Ladakh border, or in the looming militarization of the Line of Actual Control (LAC).


Improvement

LCH LSP
LCH LSP 1 (credit :livefistdefence.com)
HAL LCH first prototype
HAL LCH first prototype
The HAL changes some minor aerodynamic design in LCH , you can clearly seen in above two pictures .


1-They change the position of engine exhaust pipe from side cowling to upper cowling , which will give more better aerodynamic to this beast and it will surely increase the performance of the helicopter .

2-Also they change the shape of nose . Now its look more aerodynamic compare to prototype version

3-The cowling of LCH-LSP is bigger than the LCH prototype 1 , which creating more room for engine and it will provide better stability to the helicopter , also it may enhance the capabiity of engine.

4-In the last HAL also add more protection to the cockpit by removing glasses. which will Incrase the safety of pilot and gunner.

Low Unit Cost
According Business standard HAL has agreed to build the first 15 “limited series production” LCH for about Rs 125 crore per helicopter – about one-third the cost of each of the 28 AH-64E Apaches attack helicopters the government is importing from The Boeing Company, USA.

Here I would like to mention Indian LCH is one of the cheapest attack helicopters in the current world. Hal providing LCH to Indian armed forces almost half of the price compare to other country attack helicopters.

In 2018 Pakistan signed a deal of $1.5 billion with Turkey to buy 30 T129 ATAK combat helicopter , so if you calculate pakistani literally pay $50 million per helicopter where Indian LCH is only $20 million per one helicopter . Even if we consider the technical data and specification HAL LCH is far superior to T129 attack helicopter.

Specification and Ability
A key attribute of the 5.8-tonne LCH is its ability to fly and fight at the altitudes the army is deployed at. In tests conducted in the Siachen Glacier sector, the LCH has demonstrated its capability to land and take off at altitudes of 5,000 metres with sufficient fuel and weaponry for combat missions against even higher targets.

Driving this performance is the LCH’s twin Shakti engines, especially designed by French firm, Safran, to deliver extra power at high altitudes.

That makes the LCH an ideal platform for providing infantry soldiers fire support in 15,000-16,000 feet-high contested areas such as Depsang, Galwan and the heights north and south of the Pangong Tso, where Indian soldiers are facing off against Chinese intruders.

The military has already projected to HAL an eventual requirement of 65 LCH for the IAF and 97 for the army.

For such a small, light helicopter, the LCH is a formidable fighting machine. Its two pilots, who are seated one behind the other in a slim tandem cockpit, can choose between a menu of weapons that they fire using a helmet pointing system that lets a pilot aim at a target just by looking at it.

The LCH’s equipped with nose-mounted, 20-millimetre turret gun, 70-millimetre rockets and air-to-air missiles that it carries on stub wings. The LCH is the first helicopter to fire air-to-air missiles against a flying target.

The LCH is also designed to carry anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs) that can knock out enemy tanks at ranges of up to seven kilometres.

Allowing it to survive on a battlefield where it will be a prized target, the LCH is protected by a range of devices. The pilots are shielded against ground fire by armoured panels around the cockpit and by a bulletproof windshield. The LCH has self-sealing fuel tanks that automatically seal up bullet holes with a rubber compound. It has damage-tolerant rotor blades and a main gearbox that can run for 30 minutes even after a bullet hit drains out all its oil.

The LCH is also fitted with an electronic warfare (EW) system that detects enemy missiles; and then scatters flares and chaff as decoys to lure the incoming missile away from the helicopter.
 

WolfPack86

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Spike ATGM: This was bound to happen; import was shelved for domestic program but domestic product is still quite some time away. - Graphic below also speaks of Spike-ER ATGM for LCH
 

Bleh

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"The LCH’s weapons options include a nose-mounted, 20-millimetre turret gun; or 70-millimetre rockets; or air-to-air missiles that it carries on stub wings. The LCH is the first helicopter to fire air-to-air missiles against a flying target. "

What missiles are we looking at here?
Mistral.

If this Armenian-Azerbaijani conflict is any indication, attack helos can be easily taken out by kamikaze drones. They don't have anything to jam those.
 

mist_consecutive

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This clearly shows ..forces have not asked for an imported atgm ...
If they ask hal will integrate this....
At this point, we may as well integrate Hellfires on LCH as a stop-gap measure and push them for mass production. Apache's are too few and won't survive long into the conflict.
In Ladakh's mountain warfare, attack helos will be crucial in both taking out enemy positions as well as anti-drone role.
 

Flying Dagger

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We are talking about LCH.

First of all the project has been screwed by IAF by giving ASQR that only suits the IAF in carrying out the IAF tasks and Army specific task and specifications related to those have been sabotaging by commission.
This conspiracy has seemed to have been actively aided by the Air marshall in HAL.

Not integrating ATGMs and catering for only four ATGM instead of normally eight itself weakens the platform for Army Aviation tasks. CAS should have the focus of any version but it is everything else but CAS platform...

Now that the plains of Ladakh are all littered up with tanks and ICV/ A Vehicle platforms such as SP guns, developing such a platform only for UAV hunting is absolutely ridiculous and a pre planned sabotage.
IAF opposed Army owning Apacahes and now it has sabotages LCH - someone has to put their feet down..

How can IA order this platform and for what when it is designed for kite flying.
Actually No , he was talking abt Dhruva .

Regarding LCH , It was designed for high altitude operation as per army requirements.

All helis these days operate air to air missiles too Mistral , Stinger etc. As they are cost effective measure than sending a Sukhoi to get a drone down.

So it's not like army won't be benefiting from this integration.

Regarding ATGM HAL has clarified that they can integrate Hellfire or Spike whatever Army ask them to. It's. A mess created by MOD Army DRDO and all organisation associated .

In high mountain areas like Siachen where LCH will operate even Apache can't carry its full weapon load. So a configuration of 4 ATGM is good enough for it.

We can buy 4 rail Longbow Launcher for hell fire or Spike until we develop our own but army needs to ask for it.
 

Bleh

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Apache's are too few and won't survive long into the conflict.
Apache could be taken out almost immediately!

Don't get confused by any DALAL's disinformation attempts. Chinks have a strong drone wing & Apaches are totally unprotected with no A2A capability. Bigger ground radars often ignore small loitering munitions as clutter & our individual drone-jammers won't work against swarming techniques.

Only groups of LCH with several Mistrals on each can stand a chance... And only Helina integration going on. Spike-ER or Hellfire have been asked for as of now. And SANT tested on Mi-35 with more payload, to be fired from far behind.
 
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Flying Dagger

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Apache could be taken out almost immediately!

Don't get confused by any DALAL's disinformation attempts. Chinks have a strong drone wing & Apaches are totally unprotected with no A2A capability. Bigger ground radars often ignore small loitering munitions as clutter & our individual drone-jammers won't work against swarming techniques.

Only groups of LCH with several Mistrals on each can stand a chance... And only Helina integration going on. Spike-ER or Hellfire have been asked for as of now
Who said No A2A they can fire AIM 9 sidewinder mounted on wingtip or we can use air to air stinger. Though I think we will be using Stinger and not sidewinder will have to check and ask someone to confirm.

Apart from that they carry a 30mm cannon can take out them like flies. It's nit as easy as you make it sound like.

But eventually everything is vulnerable.
 

Bleh

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Who said No A2A they can fire AIM 9 sidewinder mounted on wingtip or we can use air to air stinger. Though I think we will be using Stinger and not sidewinder will have to check and ask someone to confirm.

Apart from that they carry a 30mm cannon can take out them like flies. It's nit as easy as you make it sound like.

But eventually everything is vulnerable.
We didn't get any Sidewinder or Stinger. I checked m8. We only got Mistral.

And shooting down a swarm of drones, flanking & maneuvering, by aiming with 30mm is near impossible... not b4 it's too late.
 

mist_consecutive

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Apache could be taken out almost immediately!

Don't get confused by any DALAL's disinformation attempts. Chinks have a strong drone wing & Apaches are totally unprotected with no A2A capability. Bigger ground radars often ignore small loitering munitions as clutter & our individual drone-jammers won't work against swarming techniques.

Only groups of LCH with several Mistrals on each can stand a chance... And only Helina integration going on. Spike-ER or Hellfire have been asked for as of now. And SANT tested on Mi-35 with more payload, to be fired from far behind.
Apache's were integrated with Stinger for the A2A role. In fact, the Indian Airforce's one requirement of Apache was anti-helicopter & anti-drone role.

Bigger ground radars often ignore small loitering munitions as clutter
Huh? Who said that? Where did you get that information? we can detect a single weather balloon crossing our boundaries with our radars, after Balakot strike our SPYDER SAM shot down a ScanEagle UAV of Pak Navy infiltrating through Rann of Kutch.

our individual drone-jammers won't work against swarming techniques
Drones are best-taken care by AA guns, low hanging smaller drones are even vulnerable to rifle or MG fire. Bigger MALE drones are easy prey for MANPADS as well as ground SAM.

The only thing I will be worried about Chinese is their attack helo fleet, not their drone fleet.
 

Flying Dagger

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We didn't get any Sidewinder or Stinger. I checked m8. We only got Mistral.

And shooting down a swarm of drones, flanking & maneuvering, by aiming with 30mm is near impossible... not b4 it's too late.
No we did get infact it was one of the primary requirements A2A role.

It has stinger air to air missile Ex chief Dhanoa said it last year .


And they have laser guided rockets too.

And I don't think sidewinder is blocked to us it must be decision based on cost and requirement.
 

Dessert Storm

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Mistral.

If this Armenian-Azerbaijani conflict is any indication, attack helos can be easily taken out by kamikaze drones. They don't have anything to jam those.
Rafael offer Firefly, Drone Dome
 

Bleh

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Huh? Who said that? Where did you get that information? we can detect a single weather balloon crossing our boundaries with our radars, after Balakot strike our SPYDER SAM shot down a ScanEagle UAV of Pak Navy infiltrating through Rann of Kutch.


Drones are best-taken care by AA guns, low hanging smaller drones are even vulnerable to rifle or MG fire. Bigger MALE drones are easy prey for MANPADS as well as ground SAM.

The only thing I will be worried about Chinese is their attack helo fleet, not their drone fleet.
No we did get infact it was one of the primary requirements A2A role.

It has stinger air to air missile Ex chief Dhanoa said it last year .


And they have laser guided rockets too.

And I don't think sidewinder is blocked to us it must be decision based on cost and requirement.
ScanEagle is indeed of similar size but is a recon drone, so itll have to fly high against the clear sky. Loitering-munitions (good ones) fly at treetop level, masking themselves near topography. Also since Desert Storm UAVs are used as decoys to make enemy expend their SAMs, you can't risk shooting some large ATGM with wings with QRSAMs.

Look at the Air defense failure of Armenians. AAA shot down plenty but couldn't stop the swarms in time & many got past top do damage. Guns won't cut it. Only Mistrals & MANPADs in equally large numbers

And are there any photos showing Stinger in our inventory. I haven't found any. Just because a requirement was laid out does not mean we have it... Where is LEDS-150 on our T-90s?
 
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Flying Dagger

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ScanEagle is indeed the size of a large ATGM with wings, but is a recon drone, so itll have to fly high against the clear sky. Loitering-munitions (good ones) fly at treetop level, masking themselves near topography.

Look at the Air defense failure of Armenians. AAA shot down plenty but couldn't stop the swarms in time & many got past top do damage. Guns won't cut it. Only IIR missiles in equally large numbers

And are there any photos showing Stinger in our inventory. I haven't found any. Just because a requirement was laid out does not mean we'll have... Where is LEDS-150 on out T-90s?
Are there any photos with stingers at all ?

I'll take IAF chief statement as proof.

Apart from the fact all weapons (except laser pod I guess) are available for India whether we buy them or not has nothing to do with Apache capabilities.
 

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