HAL Prachand - Light Combat Helicopter (LCH)

[Bhadra]

Sir lch doesn't have atgms ......I know atgm is a must for an attck helicopter......
But is atgm necessary for each and every mission........
If Chetak,cheeta and cheetal will do the task then why unarmed Apache s are flying there in leh ladakh......

I am not a knowledgeable guy so.... sorry
We all know that ...mod will sign the deal before December. ......
Don't say that if lch will have atgm ...then only we will buy ..that's not the reason.....

Sir, I appreciate your concern.

Army wants LCH for a mission. If LCH is not capable of doing that why should anyone order it.
LCH can perform thousand other missions but those are IAF specific like anti uav or anto hepter missions, target acquisition and engagements. SAR , SAD and many other missions. LCH with Misreal and rockets is a potent platform for IAF but not for army..

In Ladakh, the army can use unarmed LCH only as Air OP but why should they do so when existing Cheetals can do It or even Dhruva / Rudra can do it. The bombing of targets is more effective with observed artillery than unguided inaccurate rocket which is only 74 mm delivering less shit with more expenses and risk... For army the utility of LCH basically lies in ATGM or an air platforms capability to control ground-launched ATGM through means like Longbow radars. LAC has none..

Why are you guys forcing thing which was conceived for Ladakh to be specific but stands sabotaged by someone you know who ?? Put Spike ER and give it to Army in numbers... who the hell is DRDO to have a say in this.. ??

Yes, sabotage is in actions and consequences and not a mere allegation. Unfortunate IA has suffered this deliberate sabotage too many times..

 

[patriots]

Sir, I appreciate your concern.

Army wants LCH for a mission. If LCH is not capable of doing that why should anyone order it.
LCH can perform thousand other missions but those are IAF specific like anti uav or anto hepter missions, target acquisition and engagements. SAR , SAD and many other missions. LCH with Misreal and rockets is a potent platform for IAF but not for army..

In Ladakh, the army can use unarmed LCH only as Air OP but why should they do so when existing Cheetals can do It or even Dhruva / Rudra can do it. The bombing of targets is more effective with observed artillery than unguided inaccurate rocket which is only 74 mm delivering less shit with more expenses and risk... For army the utility of LCH basically lies in ATGM or an air platforms capability to control ground-launched ATGM through means like Longbow radars. LAC has none..

Why are you guys forcing thing which was conceived for Ladakh to be specific but stands sabotaged by someone you know who ?? Put Spike ER and give it to Army in numbers... who the hell is DRDO to have a say in this.. ??

Yes, sabotage is in actions and consequences and not a mere allegation. Unfortunate IA has suffered this deliberate sabotage too many times..

Sir as I have said lch needs an atgm be it spike or anything else .......
But as you have said is drdo the supreme?
But mod is
May be ia is unable to convince the mod....
Army bought some spike mr utilising it's fund
Again if ia is serious why they are not buying a foreign helicopter lunched atgm for its rudra ..from its 500 crore fund .
If spike lr is compatible with rudra and lch ......

 

[Suryavanshi]

Please give them to the aerobatics team of IAF..

It is meant for mountain warfare

 

[Bhadra]

It is meant for mountain warfare

How can there be warfare without weapons... you mean warfare by scaring the Chinese ?? No way sir..

 

[Bhadra]

Sir as I have said lch needs an atgm be it spike or anything else .......
But as you have said is drdo the supreme?
But mod is
May be ia is unable to convince the mod....
Army bought some spike mr utilising it's fund
Again if ia is serious why they are not buying a foreign helicopter lunched atgm for its rudra ..from its 500 crore fund .
If spike lr is compatible with rudra and lch ......

Army will certainly use its special powers to purchase a missile for LCH and Rudra if need be and use them. They have no choice when they are in the firing line..

So far as MoD is concerned it has already approved procurement of LCH for Army but not without missiles... but we have already discussed it How IAF fucked up GSQR of LCH in its favour and oriented this platform more towards IAF needs rather than Indian Army. There is no point of having only four ATGMs on a platform when it could have had eight.. the standard world over.

For the time being neither, LCH is available nor the missiles so Army can twiddle their thumbs.. sabotage is a success..

 

[Suryavanshi]

How can there be warfare without weapons... you mean warfare by scaring the Chinese ?? No way sir..

Sir it's Army Job to buy weapons that have passed their basic specifications. Weapons can be fastracked no problem.
If u place order now it will be take at least 1 years before a single squadron is formed, by that time all its weapons will be ready.
Guns and Rockets are already done as for ATGM we can mount anything from Spike, hellfire or NAG in a years time.

I don't know what u are complaing about

 

[porky_kicker]

@porky_kicker @patriots @Karthi see above.

He got most of them wrong IMO. Eg Nobody places DIRCM on top of the tail rotor . The thing labelled as CFD is a air ventilation exhaust to cool the tail rotor gear box.

Lch has yet to sport the components of the IADS (integrated air defence system)

It comprises of

1.LWR laser warning receivers
2.RWR radar warning receivers
3.MAWS missile approach warning receivers
4.DIRCM directed infra red counter measure system
5.CMDS counter measure dispensing system

 

[bose]

Bad news for some of us to see LCH at Ladakh ... commission opportunities are fading from import of foreign maal

If IAF wants them quickly then sign they should contract for 15 LCH now

ATGM can be integrated on them by the time they starts the full rolling out from production line ... It is not that hard to understand ...

Blaming others for your own in decisiveness will not going to cut much ice ...

 

[johnq]

The DRDO is just research and development, they do not make the final decision on acquisition. If somebody in MoD/army is making excuses, it may be because they have a vested interest in some big foreign deal, but do not be fooled by them. The MoD + army CAN make the final decision on putting any weapon on the LCH. All these bureaucratic games are to obfiscate the truth: Money talks, BS walks. But it is a shame that bureaucratic corruption is so bad that they sit on an order of LCH for 4 years while India's enemies build up their capabilities. The LCH is a stealthy low IR signature modern platform designed for high altitude operation with phenomenal avionics, maneuverability and protection; it is a next generation platform compared to what the Indian military is operating now.

 

[Suryavanshi]

1.LWR laser warning receivers
2.RWR radar warning receivers
3.MAWS missile approach warning receivers
4.DIRCM directed infra red counter measure system
5.CMDS counter measure dispensing system

Is HAL, DRDO, BEL working on any of these?

Private ones like Data Patterns, Alpha design, VEM can give it a go if DRDO is looking to partner up for R&D

 

[porky_kicker]

Is HAL, DRDO, BEL working on any of these?

Private ones like Data Patterns, Alpha design, VEM can give it a go if DRDO is looking to partner up for R&D

These are more or less ready , they are testing it on by one .

See the patch next to the EO pod , that is for the LWR , RWR , MAWS it was installed at some point of time for tests but then removed and patched up.

I don't know why they have not integrated all of these onto one of the prototype

 

[arkos]

Bad news for some of us to see LCH at Ladakh ... commission opportunities are fading from import of foreign maal
If IAF wants them quickly then sign they should contract for 15 LCH now
ATGM can be integrated on them by the time they starts the full rolling out from production line ... It is not that hard to understand ...
Blaming others for your own in decisiveness will not going to cut much ice ...

First Rudra was delivered in 2013 and it has yet to get an ATGM. So this mindset of accepting a platform without its weapon package has already been tested by the Army and all it got was 7 years of no Anti Tank weapon on its attack helis. Without its full weapon package it affects the platforms operationalization and its deployment.

 

[johnq]

He got most of them wrong IMO. Eg Nobody places DIRCM on top of the tail rotor . The thing labelled as CFD is a air ventilation exhaust to cool the tail rotor gear box.

Lch has yet to sport the components of the IADS (integrated air defence system)

It comprises of

1.LWR laser warning receivers
2.RWR radar warning receivers
3.MAWS missile approach warning receivers
4.DIRCM directed infra red counter measure system
5.CMDS counter measure dispensing system

View attachment 55907

No aircraft in the entire IAF, including the Rafale, has all of these things in its defence system, but that doesn't mean you stop using them. The Rafale doesn't yet have DIRCM, the su-30mki doesn't yet have MAWS or LWS. But many of these things can be added incrementally, provided that the funding is there. I think India needs to clean house of much of the bureaucracy and instead have a forward-thinking team that can see the big picture and make the necessary orders and funding happen.

 

[Suryavanshi]

The DRDO is just research and development, they do not make the final decision on acquisition. If somebody in MoD/army is making excuses, it may be because they have a vested interest in some big foreign deal, but do not be fooled by them. The MoD + army CAN make the final decision on putting any weapon on the LCH. All these bureaucratic games are to obfiscate the truth: Money talks, BS walks. But it is a shame that bureaucratic corruption is so bad that they sit on an order of LCH for 4 years while India's enemies build up their capabilities. The LCH is a stealthy low IR signature modern platform designed for high altitude operation with phenomenal avionics, maneuverability and protection; it is a next generation platform compared to what the Indian military is operating now.

How is corruption in the Defence even excusable?
And why is the system enabling these type of people.
This should be punishable by death.
Why aren't we scouting to look for these criminals?
Tap their phone calls monitor their emails find them somehow.

 

[Rohan Naik]

Seriously. They come with guns and rockets. Similar to the Mi 26 which is All that they carry.

The lch atgm integration is also ongoing, and if local atgm takes time, spike or French atgm will be integrated.

Your analogy is weird.

My confidence is already shaken by HAL and DRDO styled agencies who are the epitome of lethargy and incompetence. HAL specially is the front runner is Dragging India behind in self reliance. I love the platform, but we shud focus on weapons more than the platforms.

 

[bose]

First Rudra was delivered in 2013 and it has yet to get an ATGM. So this mindset of accepting a platform without its weapon package has already been tested by the Army and all it got was 7 years of no Anti Tank weapon on its attack helis. Without its full weapon package it affects the platforms operationalization and its deployment.

Well what has prevented IAF from integrating the Spike or hellfire into their Rudra as they are operating those from 2013 ...

The problem is from both sides ...

The DRDO has very poor project management and lack of accountability while IAF is sitting indecisiveness they should have put their foot down much earlier with a deadline for home grown ATGM or else go for integration temporarily of spike or some other missile.

 

[johnq]

How is corruption in the Defence even excusable?
And why is the system enabling these type of people.
This should be punishable by death.
Why aren't we scouting to look for these criminals?
Tap their phone calls monitor their emails find them somehow.

It is an open secret who they are, but I will not name anyone here for obvious reasons. Just look at the ones who cancelled orders for Indian programs when they held their position, and became lobbyists for foreign defence firms after they retired.

 

[Suryavanshi]

It is an open secret who they are, but I will not name anyone here for obvious reasons. Just look at the ones who cancelled orders for Indian programs when they held their position, and became lobbyists for foreign defence firms after they retired.

Can u PM me some of the names. I haven't looked into how RFIs are made and who are involved

 

[Shashank Nayak]

Sir it's Army Job to buy weapons that have passed their basic specifications. Weapons can be fastracked no problem.
If u place order now it will be take at least 1 years before a single squadron is formed, by that time all its weapons will be ready.
Guns and Rockets are already done as for ATGM we can mount anything from Spike, hellfire or NAG in a years time.

I don't know what u are complaing about

There are quite a few squadrons of Rudra with IA wandering without atgms..

 

[Sridhar_TN]

That is no argument but personal coomeent..
Put some damn missile on it and use it and not as a cross legged nude sexy woman offering everything in future but nothing for a present...

Soldiers have a mission to perform and that mission is not being captive users following your dictates..

Wow, very imaginative analogy man. Cross legged woman and what not for analogy.

Look. You keep saying that it has absolutely nothing. From all the previous posts, you should have understood that you are factually wrong. This is what everyone has been saying.

It is a fact that the lch now comes with a Nexter gun and the rocket pods. Exactly the same firepower the IA used to have with the mi35’s. It is also a fact that they come with mistral air to air missiles. Something more than the mi35. That’s a ‘FACT’.
In addition to that, it is a fact that it is light and more maneuverable.
It is also a fact that an ATGM is being integrated. It is a fact that it will be integrated. Would be India’s own or a foreign vendor’s. That is a fact.
Peace.